Fallout Series Thread V14: When i entered this thread i was hoping there would be more gambling - Games

[QUOTE=lavacano;43578199][B][I][U]Why are you fucking useless idiots arguing FO3 vs FONV again?![/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE] because we got tired of posting the same enbs over and over again and how scary nexus content is, and it isnt quite that time of the month to be discussing predictions for f4

[QUOTE=lavacano;43578199][b][i][u]Why are you fucking useless idiots arguing FO3 vs FONV again?![/u][/i][/b][/QUOTE] this is why I'm simply going to just add anyone continuing this stuff on to my ignore list for a week or so i don't know if i mis-worded that, or someone misread but i'm not defending fallout 3's incredibly shitty inconsistent writing

[QUOTE=Loriborn;43578210]because we got tired of posting the same enbs over and over again and how scary nexus content is, and it isnt quite that time of the month to be discussing predictions for f4[/QUOTE] Here's an idea then: How about you don't fucking post

[QUOTE=Saza;43578176]it looks like the thread's in that same cycle that goes on time after time except this time there's noting for me to really even argue against other than "lol you're a fucking idiot" [sp]sure told me brb gonna go cry[/sp] if you like new vegas [i]good for you[/i] but I don't give a single fuck and I'll always prefer 3 to NV and you can go ahead and rate me dumb that'll show big bad Saza[/QUOTE] Except I stated my opinion and you were the one who called me an idiot for it. [QUOTE=Saza;43383822]go cry about it (oh wait) if you don't want to accept it as canon, don't, but for gods sake stop trying to push that belief on others[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=lavacano;43578199][b][i][u]Why are you fucking useless idiots arguing FO3 vs FONV again?![/u][/i][/b][/QUOTE] Because this is the Fallout thread and there's really a lot to be said about both games. They both have pros and cons and it's interesting to see others' opinions on the matter.

[QUOTE=wulfe8857;43578240]Because this is the Fallout thread and there's really a lot to be said about both games. They both have pros and cons and it's interesting to see others' opinions on the matter.[/QUOTE] It's not interesting when the thread is unable to handle the discussion maturely. For my evidence, I cite the tail end of the previous page.

[QUOTE=Mr. Tripp;43578237]Except I stated my opinion and you were the one who called me an idiot for it.[/QUOTE] go back re-read my post find the word idiot if anything you should be saying this to kane also go ahead & keep rating me dumb but i'm 99% sure everyone knows that you think i'm dumb [QUOTE=lavacano;43578262]It's not interesting when the thread is unable to handle the discussion maturely. For my evidence, I cite the tail end of the previous page.[/QUOTE] part of the reason it's always like this is that (and yes, i'm guilty of this) neither side is willing to actually change their opinion and continually use the same. exact. arguments. over. and. over. again, then when faced with some decent argument simply devolves into "well it's my opinion, so nyaaaaaaah!" (yes, i'm aware of the pot calling the kettle black)

[QUOTE=Saza;43578263]go back re-read my post find the word idiot if anything you should be saying this to kane also go ahead & keep rating me dumb but i'm 99% sure everyone knows that you think i'm dumb part of the reason it's always like this is that (and yes, i'm guilty of this) neither side is willing to actually change their opinion and continually use the same. exact. arguments. over. and. over. again, then when faced with some decent argument simply devolves into "well it's my opinion, so nyaaaaaaah!" (yes, i'm aware of the pot calling the kettle black)[/QUOTE] I believed that Fallout 3 was a far better game until I heard what other people had to say and changed my opinion after they brought up points that I found myself agreeing with. Also my first Fallout game was Fallout 3.

I think the problem is that people are attacking each-other directly. There is enough depth in the FO universe to discuss the fine intricacies of all the games and DLC and critique all the games, including F3, but I've only seen one or two people actually inciting drama with attacks. [editline]17th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Tripp;43578305]I believed that Fallout 3 was a far better game until I heard what other people had to say and changed my opinion after they brought up points that I found myself agreeing with.[/QUOTE] I think in many ways, it comes down to which game introduced you to the series. If you started from F1, you're probably going to be much more critical of F3 than someone whose first foray into Fallout was with F3. When I got F3 for the first time, I was actually incredibly excited to see the Fallout world in 3D. It wasn't as if Fallout was really that big of a franchise before that, it had a small niche community, but writings like the Fallout Bible kept us happy for a while with theories and lore and stuff. It was just underwhelming. Ironically, the power armor model felt less impressive than the power armor sprite from the previous games. Less "giant electrical monster" and more "close fitting knight armor." Didn't actually feel like it had power behind it. I recommend anyone who cares about Fallout lore but doesn't want to sift through thousands of wiki pages or play the originals, read the Fallout Bible instead.

[QUOTE=Saza;43578176]it looks like the thread's in that same cycle that goes on time after time except this time there's noting for me to really even argue against other than "lol you're a fucking idiot" [sp]sure told me brb gonna go cry[/sp] if you like new vegas [i]good for you[/i] but I don't give a single fuck and I'll always prefer 3 to NV and you can go ahead and rate me dumb that'll show big bad Saza[/QUOTE] please stop

Talking FO comparisons, one glaring commission that I find in both F3 and NV is just that the world doesn't feel insidious and dangerous enough. I have way too much confidence in them. Like in 3/NV you biggest fears are deathclaws and cazodores and shit, you're just not afraid of people or places at all. In fallout 1 and 2 (especially fallout 2) you really need to play it cool in the game, especially in cities like New Reno where you can be totally at the mercy of of some of the human scum that reside in the city. Like... the greatest feat in new vegas is attacking a deathclaw nesting ground, whereas in Fallout 2 simply fucking with one of the gangs in new reno, or talking tough to some enclave guys can rapidly devolve into you getting shot to pieces. You need to play really smart and be very cautious on a [I]social level,[/I] that's just not an environmental factor in 3 or new vegas :[

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;43578501]Talking FO comparisons, one glaring commission that I find in both F3 and NV is just that the world doesn't feel insidious and dangerous enough. I have way too much confidence in them. Like in 3/NV you biggest fears are deathclaws and cazodores and shit, you're just not afraid of people or places at all. In fallout 1 and 2 (especially fallout 2) you really need to play it cool in the game, especially in cities like New Reno where you can be totally at the mercy of of some of the human scum that reside in the city. Like... the greatest feat in new vegas is attacking a deathclaw nesting ground, whereas in Fallout 2 simply fucking with one of the gangs in new reno, or talking tough to some enclave guys can rapidly devolve into you getting shot to pieces. You need to play really smart and be very cautious on a [I]social level,[/I] that's just not an environmental factor in 3 or new vegas :[[/QUOTE] One of the results of the transitions from turn-based dice-rolls to FPS, meant the player felt more confident in their skills, because generally, we know as players that we can shoot pretty accurately and quickly, and can perform well against NPCs. Anyone who had played a shooter, or a Bethesda game, before playing F3 knew that the NPCs weren't going to be wildly intelligent or provide an actual threat. In F1 and F2, you really had less overall control over your player. Your enemies weren't necessarily smarter than you, (there really isn't much to tactics in the first games, other than dividing AP between turns and calculating ranges and the like) but you knew after your first few "shredded to bits by giant metal man in one shot" that you were not capable of taking them out regardless of what you did. Of course, you played it safer, you were forced to; eventually you'd get the gear and skill points necessary to actually stand a chance, but otherwise, super mutants and BOS and Enclave soldiers were all overpowered to anyone who was still in the early to late-mid game. Honestly, to play F1 or F2 well, you were forced to avoid conflict and combat, and to only instigate when the reward was favorable over the risk, and you knew you had the means to make it through alive. In F3 and NV, if I see an enemy, I get a few shots out, and they might be dead before they can even see me, just because of criticals and headshots and all that. Enemies in the newer games are just overall, much less fearsome and scary, because we all know that they're relatively easy to dispatch with some exploit or the fact that humans are smarter than the NPCs; in F1/2 you didn't have time to show how much smarter you were than the NPCs because you were a pile of goop by turn 3. [editline]17th January 2014[/editline] Everyone whose played the originals knows that feeling of anxiety when you were first starting off and you were on the travel map going west, hoping that you wouldn't hit an encounter with something that would kill you instantly. (coupled with the lack of autosave)

[QUOTE=Loriborn;43578570]One of the results of the transitions from turn-based dice-rolls to FPS, meant the player felt more confident in their skills, because generally, we know as players that we can shoot pretty accurately and quickly, and can perform well against NPCs. Anyone who had played a shooter, or a Bethesda game, before playing F3 knew that the NPCs weren't going to be wildly intelligent or provide an actual threat. In F1 and F2, you really had less overall control over your player. Your enemies weren't necessarily smarter than you, (there really isn't much to tactics in the first games, other than dividing AP between turns and calculating ranges and the like) but you knew after your first few "shredded to bits by giant metal man in one shot" that you were not capable of taking them out regardless of what you did. Of course, you played it safer, you were forced to; eventually you'd get the gear and skill points necessary to actually stand a chance, but otherwise, super mutants and BOS and Enclave soldiers were all overpowered to anyone who was still in the early to late-mid game. Honestly, to play F1 or F2 well, you were forced to avoid conflict and combat, and to only instigate when the reward was favorable over the risk, and you knew you had the means to make it through alive. In F3 and NV, if I see an enemy, I get a few shots out, and they might be dead before they can even see me, just because of criticals and headshots and all that. Enemies in the newer games are just overall, much less fearsome and scary, because we all know that they're relatively easy to dispatch with some exploit or the fact that humans are smarter than the NPCs; in F1/2 you didn't have time to show how much smarter you were than the NPCs because you were a pile of goop by turn 3. [editline]17th January 2014[/editline] Everyone whose played the originals knows that feeling of anxiety when you were first starting off and you were on the travel map going west, hoping that you wouldn't hit an encounter with something that would kill you instantly. (coupled with the lack of autosave)[/QUOTE] I think that Fallout 3 and New Vegas still have these qualities, it's just not as prominent. If you fuck with the NCR without anyone to back you up you're going to get killed anywhere you go. [editline]18th January 2014[/editline] I do agree that they don't get as mad as easily now though, which is a bit disappointing. Saying stupid shit should get you a reputation.

I think it's more that Fallout 3 and NV simply don't take NPCs seriously enough from a design standpoint. Everybody has pisspoor stats and health, save for 'boss npcs" which have disproportionate superhuman volumes of health. It's more that in Fallout 1/2 people had level appropriate volumes of armor, and had the correct stats to match. If there was a hardcore-looking guard standing at a door and he was clearly wearing a set of combat armor, one could intuitively put two and two together and think "ok, don't fuck with this guy" In fallout 3 and new vegas everybody always talks down to you, and yet you can be sure that the player character will generally have a good 2-3 times the amount of health that they have so you'll be fighting them in baby mode. There's just no outward proportionality in terms of how good the player is, and how good npcs and enemies are, and because of that, NPC numbers don't really matter, you can fight them with one hand behind your back

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;43578736]I think it's more that Fallout 3 and NV simply don't take NPCs seriously enough from a design standpoint. Everybody has pisspoor stats and health, save for 'boss npcs" which have disproportionate superhuman volumes of health. It's more that in Fallout 1/2 people had level appropriate volumes of armor, and had the correct stats to match. If there was a hardcore-looking guard standing at a door and he was clearly wearing a set of combat armor, one could intuitively put two and two together and think "ok, don't fuck with this guy" In fallout 3 and new vegas everybody always talks down to you, and yet you can be sure that the player character will generally have a good 2-3 times the amount of health that they have so you'll be fighting them in baby mode. There's just no outward proportionality in terms of how good the player is, and how good npcs and enemies are.[/QUOTE] It's both to be honest. There was a smaller amount of NPCs in the first few games, and random encounters were not too common, and if they did happen, you weren't against many enemies. For contrast, it seems the number of expendable lives in the wasteland (raiders, fiends, Legion) is nearly endless, and dispatching them is both easy and without repercussion. Not to mention this means that you can get cheap loot to sell en batch to become a millionaire rather quickly. The problem is that even though, at standard difficulty, armor and weapons do the same damage for both the player and NPCs, (there is no handicaps in either's favour) the sheer stupidity of the NPCs and general weakness of weapons, means that there really is never any risk. In F1 and F2, miniguns were scary because they did all of their massive amount of damage in a single hit, and power armor was nearly invincible to your standard attacks, but in F3/NV, the FPS movement means you can easily evade minigun fire by jumping around like an idiot, and enemies are far too stupid to do the same when you wield one. (not that you would, as they are severely under-powered as well)

Yeah I seriously and literally get soul cancer when I open my piboy in vegas and see that I've killed 800 people or something... like, those people literally meant nothing to me. By contrast I open my pipboy in fallout 1/2 and see that by the end of the game I've killed 70 people, and yet every kill in combat was way more challenging and gratifying. I think if the player character needs to kill 800 people through the duration of the game, something went wrong during the design process. I guess if the player: enemy stats ratios were more proportionate and down to earth, and if the enemy AI was better then the combat in 3/NV would have been as challenging as 1/2.

People need to stop focussing on graphics/car/sex mods and start focussing on stuff like that. Fixing the core experience.

I'm just waiting for a download on that sexy ENB

[QUOTE=Mr. Tripp;43578874]People need to stop focussing on graphics/car/sex mods and start focussing on stuff like that. Fixing the core experience.[/QUOTE] Problem is that the game revolves around killing most of what you see, and doing so without really thinking twice about it. The fact that most of the enemies in the game are actually nameless, or have generic titles, only iterates this point. While you can across unnamed enemies in the first few games, there were very few of them, and you didn't kill many people in general. It would be impossible to refine FO's gameplay without an entirely new game, or without creating some kind of total modification, or without trying to create a new game entirely. The AI being stupid, and the engine's NPC hard limits are also incredibly counter intuitive.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;43578906]Problem is that the game revolves around killing most of what you see, and doing so without really thinking twice about it. The fact that most of the enemies in the game are actually nameless, or have generic titles, only iterates this point. While you can across unnamed enemies in the first few games, there were very few of them, and you didn't kill many people in general. It would be impossible to refine FO's gameplay without an entirely new game, or without creating some kind of total modification, or without trying to create a new game entirely. The AI being stupid, and the engine's NPC hard limits are also incredibly counter intuitive.[/QUOTE] It would be possible to reduce the amount of enemies and make the remaining ones stronger, though.

We need more legion quest mods, since most quests are for the NCR and they just gun you down in sight if siding with the legion.

[QUOTE=aussiedropbear;43578952]We need more legion quest mods, since most quests are for the NCR and they just gun you down in sight if siding with the legion.[/QUOTE] Blame time constraints.

New Vegas Best Vegas

stop argue

[QUOTE=Mr. Tripp;43579077]Blame time constraints.[/QUOTE] There's a gigantic load of documented stuff that was cut from release. Take this video for example, which shows that an in-engine version of the intro was created but scrapped before release: [video=youtube;H6ahNuNrdto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ahNuNrdto[/video]

[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;43579313]There's a gigantic load of documented stuff that was cut from release. Take this video for example, which shows that an in-engine version of the intro was created but scrapped before release: [video=youtube;H6ahNuNrdto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ahNuNrdto[/video][/QUOTE] I can see why that was cut, that is the least cinematic thing I have ever seen in my life In most of it Benny isn't even looking at you, this engine holy shit

[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;43579313]There's a gigantic load of documented stuff that was cut from release. Take this video for example, which shows that an in-engine version of the intro was created but scrapped before release: [video=youtube;H6ahNuNrdto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ahNuNrdto[/video][/QUOTE] Looks like part of a video storyboard not a final cut.

[QUOTE=Nemisis116;43579456]I can see why that was cut, that is the least cinematic thing I have ever seen in my life In most of it Benny isn't even looking at you, this engine holy shit[/QUOTE] It looks unfinished...

It isn't finished, they scrapped it to do the pre-rendered video thanks to time constraints. Let's not forget that there are files in the game that suggest post-ending dialogue, code and quests.

[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;43579579]It isn't finished, they scrapped it to do the pre-rendered video thanks to time constraints. Let's not forget that there are files in the game that suggest post-ending dialogue, code and quests.[/QUOTE] what the fuck, they could have easily made the ending open-play someone ought to mod it