Fallout Series Thread V14: When i entered this thread i was hoping there would be more gambling - Games

Janus is right on target. I still put a bazillion hours into Fallout 3, but it was most assuredly a shallow theme park compared to the originals. A real fun shooty theme park, but definitely a separate experience.

If things were so cheery before the war, why did their buildings have screaming faces on them?

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46716093]But the design you are referencing is the epitome of cliche. The fact that you can even point out source material that the first two games drew from like Mad Max is indicative of that fact. I hate those design decisions because it makes the game feel like "just another post-apocalyptic game". The retro-future design makes Fallout feel unique in a bland subgenre of post-apocalyptic media. There is just no point in retreading something that has already been done to death before, and I can't think of another example that has the same style as Fallout 3, and it adds to the atmosphere. Fallout 3 came out all the better for the art direction, and I feel like a lot of people either fail to realize that or refuse to credit it out of some grudge against Bethesda. The truth is the brutality of the Wasteland was a nice juxtaposition to the bright, cheery, faux-happiness of the 50's in which the common way to deal with problems was to pretend they didn't exist. It gave the game character, and that is just something that the other titles never really emulated. Sure, I can remember the actual characters and personalities of 1, 2, and New Vegas better than 3, but I can remember the locations and the [I]experience[/I] of 3 far better, because in the end that is what 3 is. It is an experience, not a story. It is a feeling, not a game. Sorry if that sounds pretentious but that is kind of the truth; nothing can compete with the first time crawling out of Vault 101 to see the blasted hellscape that awaited. The retro style helped at that immersion that the game is so good at creating, where as the everything-and-the-kitchen-sink art direction of the previous titles just made them feel muddled and confused, as though they didn't really know which post-apocalypse style they wanted to go with, so they just used all of them. There isn't any "stylism" (whatever the hell that means considering it isn't even a word) to be found in the old Fallout games because they are so damn inconsistent.[/QUOTE] It's not [i]just[/i] Road Warrior inspired, it's a whole mess of these low-budget 80s and 90s post-apoc flicks like Cherry 2000, Hell Comes To Frogtown, Equalizer 2000, etc. combined with bits of futuristic stuff from the time, like Robocop (the combat armor) The cheery glorious 50s retrofuture did happen, but it also included the more uncomfortable parts of the period, like, say, rabid anti-communism. In a way, the war was a way of social progress, leading to a much overdue cultural progress - it was the only way the world could move forward. It reminds me a bit of William Gibson's short story, The Gernsback Continuum - where the main character is slowly pulled into an idealistic, utopian, disturbing 50s sci-fi illustrations based alternative world and the only way to stave it away is immersing himself in the grittiest, most low-down values the world of the 80s had - cheap movies, porn, etc. It's a really 90s story, in a really 90s game - that's really the best way to put it, I think. And the happy-go-lucky overwhelming 'hey it was the 50s and it still kinda is and can be' thing F3 pulls at times is totally at odds with the concept.

[QUOTE=Krinkels;46717413]If things were so cheery before the war, why did their buildings have screaming faces on them?[/QUOTE] Cuz art deco looks fucking sick. Just because its supposed to be a cheery era doesnt mean you cant have cool architecture. Could also say they took some liberties for atmospheric purposes.

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;46712660]Man, I always find it a shame I just can't get into fallout 1 and 2, I just can't get into the style of gameplay.[/QUOTE] I was able to get into Fallout 1 and have a great time, after I fixed it up with a mod to make it compatible with my system. Fallout 2, however, I just could not get into. I thought it was ludicrously more difficult than the first. I barely made it out of the tutorial cave. Maybe I was just doing something wrong.

It took me forever to actually get around to beating Fallout 2, I would always stop at San Francisco because the plot of the game was kind of weak compared to Fallout 1. And it's humor was 80% bad. Fallout 2's gameplay though is way better though, The "take all" button is horribly missed when I play Fallout 1. [editline]15th December 2014[/editline] It's a good game though, I would play it again, but I would play New Vegas over Fallout 2.

I'm trying to reinstall New Vegas, and each time I try, this occurs: [img]http://i.imgur.com/KeC2jVb.png[/img] How can I fix it?

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;46716960]You do realise that most post-apocalyptic games were copying Fallout, right? That's like saying "Half Life 2 is a cliche it's just like all the games that came after it". Also Fallout 3 is just as guilty of this, anything that isn't 50's is full fucking Mad Max, at least the old games just had a couple of nods, Fallout 3 ripped entire designs from The Road Warrior. They even went so far as to rip off the fucking [URL="http://i.imgur.com/6DNPRt3.jpg"]Road Warrior poster[/URL] for god's sake.[/QUOTE] Actually, most post-apocalyptic games don't copy Fallout. The only other titles I can think of that take place after a nuclear war are the Metro games, which are distinctly different. The truth isn't that things are [I]ripping off Fallout,[/I] it is that they are ripping off the same source material *cough* the Road Warrior *cough*. Since most post-apocalyptic media draws basically from Mad Max, it all ends up feeling the damn same, and that was going on years before Fallout even hit the market. And the previous Fallout games do not just "nod" to the Road Warrior. Everything is the same. Gas shortages were a main drive for the backstory of both, both take place in big fucking deserts where civilization has regressed to tribal barbarians and hooting assholes in leather armor, and the protagonist (at least in 2) is some special "Chosen One", or at least that is what the tribal people believe. The first two games do more than nod or pay homage to Mad Max, they flat out fucking plagiarize parts of it. And yes, Fallout 3 is guilty of that to some extent, what with the water being an important part of the story and the sadistic raiders and whatnot, but the thing is those were already in the series to begin with. Fallout 1 had that shit with the water merchants in the Hub, and the raiders have always been implied to be leather-fetishists. The difference is that outside of that stuff, Fallout 3 has more character with the retro-future motif, where as the first two games feel like a jumbled mess of half-formed ideas from a group of people who didn't know if they wanted to make a 50's post-apocalypse game, an 80's post-apocalypse game, or a 90's post-apocalypse game, so they made a bit of each but never committed. [QUOTE=]Except the 'atmosphere' of Fallout 3 is a themepark with no substance. In Fallout 1 and 2 the ruins of the pre-war world weren't attractive, they were rotten, rusted wrecks. The pre-war world was one of excess and artificial happiness, the ruins reflected that by having the previously bright and colourful world represented entirely with faded yellows, rusted browns, and dirty greys. Fallout 3 decided "How there are some ruined cars from the 50's and a poster. Everything must be hyper-50s in our game!"[/QUOTE] I don't see how Fallout 3 handles the direction differently other than enforcing more consistency. The ruins of the pre-war world in 3 are not attractive either, and they aren't meant to be. The theme of the Old World being this dead, forgotten place is still enforced, but we will talk about that in my next point: [QUOTE=]The faux-happiness of the pre-war era was not supposed to bring you comfort, it was not supposed to feel cheery at all. In the first two games (aside from New Reno) everything from the past was ruined, there wasn't a single thing immune to the mistakes that lead to the Great War. The once bright and cheery pre-war minutiae was often more depressing than the post-war stuff. The old world is dead and no one mourns it.[/QUOTE] Yeah it is not supposed to bring happiness, that is why it is [I]faux[/I] happiness. It is supposed to elicit the reaction that "nothing is wrong" but when you do a little bit of digging (say by reading one of the many forgotten pre-war terminals) you find that just about everything was wrong with the old world. That was my point; the over-indulgent lifestyle of the pre-war world and the fact that pre-war society tried to hide behind their many obvious problems with a cheery demeanor echoes the post-war world, because now the problems are more apparent than ever (with mutants and people killing each other) but the ineffective propaganda of the Old World still stands, as though desperately trying to forget the new world and return to the old. And that is the message of the games; let go of the past, right? [QUOTE=]The previous games had plenty of character. It just wasn't "Woah, look at the WACKY 50s, everybody has a pompadour and a leather jacket. We're going to make 75% of our locations references to pop culture!" The other Fallout games spent their time creating a world with characters that are believable, with troubles and consequences to your actions. Fallout 3 spent it's time making everything 50s and bright, or saying "Remember that thing from the old game? We put it in here but completely missed the point."[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you on about? Fallout 2 in particular has infinitely more immersion-break pop-culture references than 3. Everything about the first two games (and many elements of New Vegas) just feels like it was airlifted out of other franchises. Even the retro-future stuff I spent these two posts praising could be traced to Ray Bradbury's "There Will Come Soft Rains". The difference is that that was one short story, compared to the metric ton of generic 80's post-apocalypse movies, games, and media that Fallout 2 in particular loves so much (and Fallout 1 but to a far lesser extent). Yes, the games do have better characters than 3, and I am not debating that, but you honestly are going to sit there and tell we that Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas really have better atmosphere than 3? To me, it just sounds like you are mad that I criticized 1 and 2 and praised 3. That is the knee-jerk response of this fanbase: "If anyone [I]dares[/I] to criticize Fallout 2 or praise the horrible, evil, wretched Bethesda they are [I]objectively wrong[/I]." Every single time I raise a criticism of the original games, someone like you makes a long ass post explaining how I am apparently completely wrong and that Black Isle can do no harm.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46723718]lots of words[/QUOTE] the only thing i pulled from your long ass post was how awesome the road warrior truly is. if anything, bethesda's heavy emphasis on the 50's retro-culture goes to only add on to the idea that [sp]the fallout games are all a simulation of what could happen in the event of a nuclear apocalypse, designed in the 1950s[/sp] with some references to 80's post-apocalyptic sci-fi and new vegas builds onto it as well, but is most certainly a better blend of the 50's and 80's p-a sci-fi.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46723718]but you honestly are going to sit there and tell we that Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas really have better atmosphere than 3?[/QUOTE] Yep. [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] Fallout 3's atmosphere would be better if I didn't keep getting taken out of the game by bugs and just poor design decisions.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46724709]Yep. [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] Fallout 3's atmosphere would be better if I didn't keep getting taken out of the game by bugs and just poor design decisions.[/QUOTE] F2 was at least twice as buggy as F3 was on release broski [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] that's not to say I don't love 'em all (except for the shitty PS2/OGXbox game) but man if you're claiming that a Fallout game is worse than the rest of the series cause it's buggy you've got another thing coming

[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;46726734]F2 was at least twice as buggy as F3 was on release broski [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] that's not to say I don't love 'em all (except for the shitty PS2/OGXbox game) but man if you're claiming that a Fallout game is worse than the rest of the series cause it's buggy you've got another thing coming[/QUOTE] I was just talking about the atmosphere of Fallout 3 vs the others. And I never ran into many bugs in Fallout 1 and 2, maybe I'm lucky.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46727377]I was just talking about the atmosphere of Fallout 3 vs the others. And I never ran into many bugs in Fallout 1 and 2, maybe I'm lucky.[/QUOTE] That's mostly because of all the patches (fan made or official) over the years.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46727377]I was just talking about the atmosphere of Fallout 3 vs the others. And I never ran into many bugs in Fallout 1 and 2, maybe I'm lucky.[/QUOTE] Either your lucky, or you have a very heavy rose tint on your glasses, and knowing Fallout fans it is probably the latter.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46727484]Either your lucky, or you have a very heavy rose tint on your glasses, and knowing Fallout fans it is probably the latter.[/QUOTE] I played Fallout 3 before all the others. [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] And all you do is say anyone who disagrees with you is blinded by nostalgia. Cause there is NO possible way that people [B]genuinely[/B] don't like Fallout 3.

I was one of those people who played Fallout 3 first (and didn't even know it was a sequel to an existing series). Now I've p much played all of them and think Fallout 3 is one of the worst in the series (BoS isn't in the series at all shh) [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] I'd probably say F3 is better than Tactics though just because Tactics is almost unplayable for me in terms of controls.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46727528]Cause there is NO possible way that people [B]genuinely[/B] don't like Fallout 3.[/QUOTE] as much as i want to believe in this statement (i fell in love with fallout 3 from just watching gameplay videos) you need to visit /v/ more.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46727528]I played Fallout 3 before all the others. [editline]16th December 2014[/editline] And all you do is say anyone who disagrees with you is blinded by nostalgia. Cause there is NO possible way that people [B]genuinely[/B] don't like Fallout 3.[/QUOTE] I'm just sick of people shitting on it so much because "Bethesda ruined my childhood :(!" Seriously, every fucking game that Bethesda makes ends up being critically praised on release by everybody, but than about a year later everyone backlashes against it. It happened to Oblivion, it happened to Fallout 3, and it happened to Skyrim. And like Pops said, you should see /v/. If you don't like Fallout 3 than whatever, good for you, but holy shit there is a serious problem with nostalgia blindness in this community. I don't think Fallout 3 is perfect but people act like it is the spawn of Satan and it killed their family. Nobody will admit that Fallout 3 got even [I]one[/I] thing right. It just feels like a dumb fucking grudge match against Bethesda because people are mad that they resurrected the BoS and the Enclave. That is it. Those two things are the big reasons why everybody shits on Fallout 3 so hard. And yes, it was a dumb decision, at least in some respects, but that doesn't mean the whole game is some kind of abomination just because they fiddled with your favorite part of the sacred lore.

Guys, I think its pretty awesome when we compare what the games did differently, and what they all did better or worse, but can we tone down the vinegar? The fuck is the point of being so mean to each other.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;46731760]Seriously, every fucking game that Bethesda makes ends up being critically praised on release by everybody, but than about a year later everyone backlashes against it. It happened to Oblivion, it happened to Fallout 3, and it happened to Skyrim.[/QUOTE] This happens with every popular game though?

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46732060]This happens with every popular game though?[/QUOTE] You can say that for every book, movie, and game in general.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;46727528]Cause there is NO possible way that people [B]genuinely[/B] don't like Fallout 3.[/QUOTE] Don't crucify me, but I prefer New Vegas a lot more. FO3 felt a bit drab in some areas, and the fight between the BoS and the Enclave was pretty dry because of their perfect symmetry. New Vegas had a better color palette, the factions were a lot more interesting (and a lot less black and white), and the world felt a lot more vibrant. The story was a little more refined in FO3, but I personally liked the ending more in NV. Half of NV's music was lifted from Goodfellas, so I'd argue it has a better soundtrack too.

and flaws are the reason why mods exist

[QUOTE=Pops;46733013]and flaws are the reason why mods exist[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Starlight 456;46712805]Mods can't fix the painfully bad humor and meandering story[/QUOTE]

My testament for the original fallouts versus 3 and NV argument is that I got banned from the No Mutants Allowed forums for saying I prefer fallout 3, after getting absolutely shit on and made fun of by the members of that forum for it. I played the originals before I played 3 but I just prefer the atmosphere, gameplay, and I guess lore(?) of 3 and NV. I'm not old enough to have nolistlaga for the originals, but I genuinely do really like them. From a modern standpoint though, I just prefer the new ones.

I don't think you can really compare Fallout 1&2 to 3 and New Vegas in terms of how much you enjoy them, they play completely differently. As for my shitty opinion, I think NV is better than 3, however I preferred FO3's enviornment and atmosphere. Which is great becuase installing Tale of two wastelands means you can get all the good parts of FO3 in FNV.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;46732087]When a game first comes out, you can't instantly find all the flaws, sometimes it takes a while before you notice things. As a matter of fact, most people aren't looking for flaws at this point, they're appreciating the good. As time goes on, we stop noticing the good because we're used to it and only see the bad. Certainly we notice tiny things at first like armor clipping and shit, but later on we notice major things such as story, bad characters, how empty the wasteland feels, etc. Its like eating 1 Hershey kiss every day for a year. Doesn't seem like much day-to-day, but if you got to day 365 and saw all the kisses you ate, it would seem like a lot. I don't think people turn around and hate the game, they just see its flaws. To love a game is to play it regardless of the flaws, and that's what people tend to do with Bethesda games. (Hell, its what you HAVE to do)[/QUOTE] That is true. It does start to lose its luster after a while, as do all games when the initial amazement wears off. My only point is that we spend so much time shitting on Fallout 3 and I don't really think it is deserved. Even though it has many flaws, there are also things that we can appreciate from it. Yeah, people still love it, but it just gets a bit old when all you ever hear about it is criticism. The same thing happened to Skyrim; to this day people poor more time into that than any other Elder Scrolls game, but they give it the most shit as well. And on the opposite side of the spectrum, some games are glorified and their flaws are completely white-washed. The first two get this treatment often, but this extends to other game series as well. All of the Fallout titles have strengths and weaknesses in their own right. New Vegas had good gameplay, Fallout 3 had good atmosphere, Fallout 2 had good characters, and Fallout 1 is kind of a mix of all of them. I think that is the line in the sand; each game did things right and did things wrong.

Does anyone know how to fix One Hud not allowing me to disable the bracket on the compass and weapons/ammo counter?

[QUOTE=Baconator 7;46721123]I'm trying to reinstall New Vegas, and each time I try, this occurs: [img]http://i.imgur.com/KeC2jVb.png[/img] How can I fix it?[/QUOTE] just gonna bump this bad boy

[QUOTE=jazxsora;46734678]My testament for the original fallouts versus 3 and NV argument is that I got banned from the No Mutants Allowed forums for saying I prefer fallout 3, after getting absolutely shit on and made fun of by the members of that forum for it. I played the originals before I played 3 but I just prefer the atmosphere, gameplay, and I guess lore(?) of 3 and NV. I'm not old enough to have nolistlaga for the originals, but I genuinely do really like them. From a modern standpoint though, I just prefer the new ones.[/QUOTE] NMA is a shit site, not surprised