[QUOTE=elowin;43169036]Thinking of it like that is all well and good, until you begin thinking about combat that involves anything other than completely mundane weapons.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it kind of runs on anime fighting spirit logic. HP are just an abstraction for the sake of playability anyway, who the hell would want to play a game where you get stabbed once and die because it hit an artery, or where you go into shock, or die three weeks later because it got infected
[QUOTE=Rents;43169168]Yeah, it kind of runs on anime fighting spirit logic. HP are just an abstraction for the sake of playability anyway, who the hell would want to play a game where you get stabbed once and die because it hit an artery, or where you go into shock, or die three weeks later because it got infected[/QUOTE]
Anyone who plays Warhammer Fantasy RPG.
[QUOTE=Rents;43169168]Yeah, it kind of runs on anime fighting spirit logic. HP are just an abstraction for the sake of playability anyway, who the hell would want to play a game where you get stabbed once and die because it hit an artery, or where you go into shock, or die three weeks later because it got infected[/QUOTE]
Personally I just play it as straight up health, and strong characters quite simply not being phased by having an arrow stuck in their skulls.
High level characters in D&D are basically like mythical heroes capable of destroying entire armies on their own anyway.
[QUOTE=Chronische;43169230]Anyone who plays Warhammer Fantasy RPG.[/QUOTE]
And Dark Heresy to an extent. At least you can laugh at the stupidly gruesome deaths, though.
er, i've never heard of any DnD game where 0 hp wasn't the mark of "unconsciousness" from injury.
having 1 hp basically means you're so lacerated/punctured/beat up you look like a punch doll and hitting 0 just means you couldn't take it any more and fell unconscious.
ticking down to -10 is just those wounds taking it out on your body while you're down until it finally gives up the ghost.
0 isn't unconscious, it's exactly on the verge. At 0 HP you can either move or do a standard action, if you do more than one or do a full round action you drop to -1 and fall unconscious.
[QUOTE=NotAName;43170713]0 isn't unconscious, it's exactly on the verge. At 0 HP you can either move or do a standard action, if you do more than one or do a full round action you drop to -1 and fall unconscious.[/QUOTE]
actually you can neither take two actions nor a full-round action at all, simply doing a standard action will drop you to -1, also you can only move at half speed.
Hmm... If you casted a permenant darkness spell on one side of a lens and darkvision on the other side, could you make functional fantasty sunglasses?
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;43171184]Hmm... If you casted a permenant darkness spell on one side of a lens and darkvision on the other side, could you make functional fantasty sunglasses?[/QUOTE]
"Darkvision does not grant one the ability to see in magical darkness."
[url]http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkvision.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;43171729]"Darkvision does not grant one the ability to see in magical darkness."
[url]http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkvision.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Damnit... Thought I was on to something there.
What happens if I catch a fireball with a bag of holding.
[QUOTE=Asgard;43172683]What happens if I catch a fireball with a bag of holding.[/QUOTE]
I hope you weren't keeping any valuables in there because they're probably toast
But if there's nothing in the bag for the fireball to come into contact with, it basically floats forever?
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;43172740]But if there's nothing in the bag for the fireball to come into contact with, it basically floats forever?[/QUOTE]
A bag of holding has a finite capacity, I thought. 20x20x20ft or so?
[QUOTE=gman003-main;43172756]A bag of holding has a finite capacity, I thought. 20x20x20ft or so?[/QUOTE]
Gah, yeah you're right. I guess it would just break the bag. I also think that there would be no explosion outside of the bag because as soon as the bag's magic is broken, anything inside it basically disappears.
Plus there's no oxygen inside. I assume, since anything alive would suffocate in it.
[QUOTE=Asgard;43172834]Plus there's no oxygen inside. I assume, since anything alive would suffocate in it.[/QUOTE]
*After 10 minutes.
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;43172921]*After 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]
Yea but why
It would rupture the bag, destroying it. Try a portable hole, or a small Gate.
[QUOTE=Asgard;43173154]Yea but why[/QUOTE]
Because there's only 20 square feet of air in there?
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;43167307]The way I've seen combat described in D&D is that whenever you lose HP, you arent actually taking serious damage until you get to 0. Before that, it's like you're becoming fatigued, and taking minor scratches. Having 1 hp left wouldn't be serious at all, a normal human could take it.[/QUOTE]
Personally I think that's stupid if you're using the standard HP system; thematically and logically doesn't make sense. If that's really what HP is supposed to represent then it should have been more like the [URL="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/woundsandvigor.html"]Wounds and Vigor[/URL] variant rule for PF.
I really need to run a PF game. I love its rules so much.
[QUOTE=Axznma;43177976]Personally I think that's stupid if you're using the standard HP system; thematically and logically doesn't make sense. If that's really what HP is supposed to represent then it should have been more like the [URL="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/woundsandvigor.html"]Wounds and Vigor[/URL] variant rule for PF.[/QUOTE]
I don't really get how this works in practice with the vague explanation they give. Could you give a combat example?
It is simply that you lose vigour first in lieu of HP, and when you have none left you begin taking damage in wound points? Do critical hits deal damage, or reduce more vigour, or do both? And how would something like fall damage work etc.
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;43178151]I don't really get how this works in practice with the vague explanation they give. Could you give a combat example?
It is simply that you lose vigour first in lieu of HP, and when you have none left you begin taking damage in wound points? Do critical hits deal damage, or reduce more vigour, or do both? And how would something like fall damage work etc.[/QUOTE]
It's a bit vague probably because they want you to buy the book that has the rule. The link gives you the basic idea, for more you'd have to buy Ultimate Combat (which also has the lovely [URL="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/armorAsDamageReduction.html"]Armor as Damage Reduction[/URL] variant rule too).
Anyway, yeah you you got it right. Vigor is essentially the concept of dodging or otherwise avoiding injury that would be noteworthy. It's a buffer zone between your HP (Wounds) more or less:
[QUOTE]Vigor represents a creature’s ability to avoid the majority of actual physical damage it might take from an attack. When a creature takes damage, the damage typically reduces its vigor points first.[/QUOTE]
Critical hits affect Vigor first, and Wounds second:
[QUOTE]When a creature is subject to a critical hit, the critical hit deals the damage normally, reducing vigor points first, and then reducing wound points when vigor points are gone. It also deals an amount of wound point damage equal to its critical multiplier (for example, 3 wound points for a weapon with a x3 modifier), on top of any wound point damage the creature might take from the critical hit.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing in the book I can find about about fall damage (so it's probably up to the GM), though it covers Nonlethal damage, Hit Point Triggers, Temporary Hit Points, Negative Energy Damage, Resting, Healing, and a few other Spell related things.
Wounds and Vigor are a bit harder to manage in most games I think because of the added penalties for taking Wound damage:
[QUOTE]When acreature is wounded, it gains the staggered condition until it is no longer wounded. Furthermore, when a creature is wounded, if that creature takes any standard or move action on its turn, its remaining wound points are reduced by 1 and it must make a DC 10 Constitution check. If the creature fails that check, it falls unconscious[/QUOTE]
However the benefit, besides the themematics, is on average you're playing with more total health. A level 1 Human Fighter with 16 Constitution has 10 Vigor and 32 Wound points; Constitution raises your maximum Wounds, and gaining levels increases your Vigor. So a level 6 Human Fighter with 16 Constitution has 60 Vigor points and 32 Wound points. Using the standard rules the player would have 78 HP. So it's not really superior (because of the penalties for Wound damage), just a variant rule as advertised (and you could argue that your Absolute Health is higher using the standard rules because you can get into the negatives). My group used it for a long time and it worked fine, but since you die at 0 Wounds you have to play smarter.
[QUOTE=Axznma;43177976]Personally I think that's stupid if you're using the standard HP system; thematically and logically doesn't make sense. If that's really what HP is supposed to represent then it should have been more like the [URL="http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/woundsandvigor.html"]Wounds and Vigor[/URL] variant rule for PF.[/QUOTE]
That's a variant rule meant to provide more clarity, but the standard system that Gary Gygax presented back in the 70s was meant to emulate that scene, and nobody in that scene takes any damage until the very end.
Basically, it would work the scene I described plays out. Your stamina decreases and various minor wounds build up until you're left incapacitated. That's why when you're at 0 health, you're just knocked and bleeding out and not dead.
If you want pathfinder health to be more like real life, make it so you're hit points stay the same forever and your ac is 5 points higher, and go up by 1 every 2 levels. Or something like that. Basically so you aren't hit a lot, but when you are, it hurts bad.
If you're looking for a system that takes wounds and combat realistically, I'd look towards SIFRP or L5R.
[editline]14th December 2013[/editline]
And I should say, damage means different things for different classes, if you're a barbarian or fighter or cleric, it very well might be taking an arrow to the gut or taking a stab wound.
If you're a rogue or swashbuckler, it's taking a minor scratch to your face and damaging your resolve.
And if you're a wimpy spellcaster, it's becoming more and more exhausted as you try to dodge the hits.
[editline]14th December 2013[/editline]
As for why this is, think about how much actual damage they would've been taking otherwise, and how little sense it makes in regards to levels.
In what world would a brute wielding a greatsword at successfully managing to hit it and with its full force (15 dmg) in managing to hit a monk with no armor, not be able to kill it? And if you reply "Well it would've just done a very harsh blow" then you're basically admitting that the combat is not based on actual actual wounds.
Man I've been having a really hard time with this one player in our group and it's killing all the joy I have for playing D&D.
His only goal is to see how much he can wreck the gameworld up, and he's just going to collect power and stuff. Against the suggestions of my therapist (since D&D is the only real life social thing I go out and do) I've stopped playing D&D, and told my DM that I'll be real spotty in showing up or not. The problem-player, though it seems like I'm the only one to have a problem with him, has already messed up another party we had so we've had to "reboot" with new characters, and he's worse than before.
This campaign we're playing is really high powered, but I try not to be too minmaxy as that's no fun, but this guy is playing a fiend of possession, and through feats/bullshit he has no combat ability himself, but loads of everything in skills and has already killed a demon cult and started three wars by himself by stealing an artifact. Whereas my character is this scorpion-lady that's just really awesome at melee and hasn't done jack-shit, and even failed at saving this group of prisoners taken by a necromancer.
I fucking love D&D, DM, and everything about going to meet them, but ever since this shitlord joined I've had no fun at at all, and even got really upset one session which this guy feels really bad about, but there's nothing I can really do to fix anything since I'M the one that has a problem with him.
The guy tried to debate with me about this problem over Steam as he's the real engineery-logic type, but my feelings aren't based on logic so I never really responded to him.
Sorry about this huge dumb rant, it's about to be a whole month since I last played D&D, and it's really bumming me out.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;43178533]In what world would a brute wielding a greatsword at successfully managing to hit it and with its full force (15 dmg) in managing to hit a monk with no armor, not be able to kill it? And if you reply "Well it would've just done a very harsh blow" then you're basically admitting that the combat is not based on actual actual wounds.[/QUOTE]
in a world where mythical heroes capable of killing entire armies on their own exist
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;43178533]In what world would a brute wielding a greatsword at successfully managing to hit it and with its full force (15 dmg) in managing to hit a monk with no armor, not be able to kill it?[/QUOTE]
In a world where Monks are mystical fighters (i.e D&D/PF) that would be easy. I can explain that away thematically with ease; his innate Ki provides protection from attacks, his body has been trained to harness said Ki and as a result his body is not like the average person. When damaged his injuries do not affect him like the average person; thus the reason he forgoes armor, he doesn't need it like the Fighter does.
Monk is the worst example you could have used since there's so many worlds where they [I]are[/I] mystical fighters that essentially use magic in every part of their function.
[QUOTE=Levithan;43179076]Man I've been having a really hard time with this one player in our group and it's killing all the joy I have for playing D&D.
His only goal is to see how much he can wreck the gameworld up, and he's just going to collect power and stuff. Against the suggestions of my therapist (since D&D is the only real life social thing I go out and do) I've stopped playing D&D, and told my DM that I'll be real spotty in showing up or not. The problem-player, though it seems like I'm the only one to have a problem with him, has already messed up another party we had so we've had to "reboot" with new characters, and he's worse than before.
This campaign we're playing is really high powered, but I try not to be too minmaxy as that's no fun, but this guy is playing a fiend of possession, and through feats/bullshit he has no combat ability himself, but loads of everything in skills and has already killed a demon cult and started three wars by himself by stealing an artifact. Whereas my character is this scorpion-lady that's just really awesome at melee and hasn't done jack-shit, and even failed at saving this group of prisoners taken by a necromancer.
I fucking love D&D, DM, and everything about going to meet them, but ever since this shitlord joined I've had no fun at at all, and even got really upset one session which this guy feels really bad about, but there's nothing I can really do to fix anything since I'M the one that has a problem with him.
The guy tried to debate with me about this problem over Steam as he's the real engineery-logic type, but my feelings aren't based on logic so I never really responded to him.
Sorry about this huge dumb rant, it's about to be a whole month since I last played D&D, and it's really bumming me out.[/QUOTE]
If it's that much of a problem why not join a different group, or better yet run a session of your own that only those you invite will play?
[QUOTE=Levithan;43179076]Man I've been having a really hard time with this one player in our group and it's killing all the joy I have for playing D&D.
His only goal is to see how much he can wreck the gameworld up, and he's just going to collect power and stuff. Against the suggestions of my therapist (since D&D is the only real life social thing I go out and do) I've stopped playing D&D, and told my DM that I'll be real spotty in showing up or not. The problem-player, though it seems like I'm the only one to have a problem with him, has already messed up another party we had so we've had to "reboot" with new characters, and he's worse than before.
This campaign we're playing is really high powered, but I try not to be too minmaxy as that's no fun, but this guy is playing a fiend of possession, and through feats/bullshit he has no combat ability himself, but loads of everything in skills and has already killed a demon cult and started three wars by himself by stealing an artifact. Whereas my character is this [b]scorpion-lady[/b] that's just really awesome at melee and hasn't done jack-shit, and even failed at saving this group of prisoners taken by a necromancer.
I fucking love D&D, DM, and everything about going to meet them, but ever since this shitlord joined I've had no fun at at all, and even got really upset one session which this guy feels really bad about, but there's nothing I can really do to fix anything since I'M the one that has a problem with him.
The guy tried to debate with me about this problem over Steam as he's the real engineery-logic type, but my feelings aren't based on logic so I never really responded to him.
Sorry about this huge dumb rant, it's about to be a whole month since I last played D&D, and it's really bumming me out.[/QUOTE]
Oh my
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