[QUOTE=GlebGuy;45299194]You were rail-roading through the whole thing, everyone thought we would be playing sandbox instead of a linear campaign.[/QUOTE]
let me explain what i'd actually planned for you, since you seem to have conveniently forgotten about mr. important npc who got you onto the planet in the first place. i'd have let you stew in prison for a bit, then have him come in to let you out (having paid your bond) and then you'd be even further in debt with him. it would have given a reason for you to be out wandering the stars, instead of going around the galaxy aimlessly, and quite frankly, boringly.
all i really asked for was a little faith but you seemed intent on breaking the plot so i gave up.
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
and who's everyone? everyone else but you and kyle was pretty much fine with my plans.
[QUOTE=lintz;45299243]let me explain what i'd actually planned for you, since you seem to have conveniently forgotten about mr. important npc who got you onto the planet in the first place. i'd have let you stew in prison for a bit, then have him come in to let you out (having paid your bond) and then you'd be even further in debt with him. it would have given a reason for you to be out wandering the stars, instead of going around the galaxy aimlessly, and quite frankly, boringly.
all i really asked for was a little faith but you seemed intent on breaking the plot so i gave up.
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
and who's everyone? everyone else but you and kyle was pretty much fine with my plans.[/QUOTE]
Oh. I didn't know that was your plan, it'd be pretty cool if that happened though.
And well, it seemed to me that everyone was losing interest because of the rail-roading you were doing. Not to mention the whole group fell apart because we kept missing too many sessions.
And screw it, I've done enough damage control as it is. I'm done here.
speaking as someone who currently runs a mostly sandbox game, sandboxes are also a fuckton more work than more 'conventional' games
like, it sounds great in theory, but then you run into the problems that you will almost never have content for everything the group wants to do, which especially if you're playing a crunchy system (pathfinder, mostly) where you can't very easily fudge it in a hurry it's kind of problematic
it's entertaining in it's own way, but as a GM I feel really self-conscious when I'm running my game since I have to leave so much of my work up to improv-ing descriptions and making up characters on the spot, so I almost never have the pretty pictures or cool battlemaps that the other GMs in my group can manage in more linear games because I never actually know what the players plan is going to be and if you're going sandbox leaving it open is usually the better choice
I agree it can be fun, but it's not something I would ever force on someone else unless they already wanted to do it
that's what random generators are for! random gen whatever you need, fill in the details and bam a character/adventure/whatever
seeing simple concepts evolve into these living, breathing stories or characters is probably my favorite thing about rpgs
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
also fuck maps and pretty pictures :v
[QUOTE=GlebGuy;45299237]I'm not forcing anyone, I'm only asking around and I'm not going to call any names. If someone doesn't want to join by realizing how difficult the whole thing will be, then fine with me. I can't judge another person.
And I am not begging, I'm trying to be polite and I realize how hard it is to find someone interested in this, but that doesn't mean I'll just give up on everything.[/QUOTE]
But you probably should give up on your idea of a perfect game materialising
Just see what games people have going on, join something else
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;45299320]that's what random generators are for! random gen whatever you need, fill in the details and bam a character/adventure/whatever
seeing simple concepts evolve into these living, breathing stories or characters is probably my favorite thing about rpgs
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
also fuck maps and pretty pictures :v[/QUOTE]
it's not the creating things so much as the presentation that I find irritating
because when I can't even find a general backdrop to set the mood for a location in a few minutes I feel like I'm a really lazy GM
[QUOTE=GlebGuy;45299194]You were rail-roading through the whole thing, everyone thought we would be playing sandbox instead of a linear campaign.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, there's a huge difference between "railroading" and "having a plot".
Railroading is forcing the players to go down this path and this path only. Oh, you want to go down that path? Turns out it leads back to the path the GM wanted you on anyways. One way, and one way only.
Having a plot is giving the players a goal and a story but still giving them [I]options[/I]. The GM still comes up with a decent amount of stuff, probably, but you may never see a lot of it, and if you don't go down this path or that path, he probably won't force you to switch tracks or reroute you. Unless he's doing a point A to point B with multiple different ways to get between them type thing, but hey, at least you've still got options.
Edit: Sandbox is giving the players all the choice in the world and having little to nothing prepared ahead of time besides things that will definitely exist/happen regardless of what they do and telling them to go wild. But the issue with that is, if you aren't good at improvising, you're gonna have a bad time, and that's gonna translate to your players having a bad time.
[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;45300112]it's not the creating things so much as the presentation that I find irritating
because when I can't even find a general backdrop to set the mood for a location in a few minutes I feel like I'm a really lazy GM[/QUOTE]
it's fine, trust me. that shit is overrated.
My Magical Burst game is pretty much 95% sandbox. The players are almost never in a group together and they wander off, fucking things up on their own accord in entirely different parts of the city and leaving me to tend to 3-5 seperate chats, simultaneously. I've thrown out a few plot hooks and things they can investigate at will, but they seem more interested in making my life as a GM as stressful as possible. But other than that I'd say it's going pretty good.
[QUOTE=Aperture fan;45300839]My Magical Burst game is pretty much 95% sandbox. The players are almost never in a group together and they wander off, fucking things up on their own accord in entirely different parts of the city and leaving me to tend to 3-5 seperate chats, simultaneously. I've thrown out a few plot hooks and things they can investigate at will, but they seem more interested in making my life as a GM as stressful as possible. But other than that I'd say it's going pretty good.[/QUOTE]
I run a sandbox game where all the players are doing stuff away from each other. I just do one on one sessions with people until I feel like bringing them together with plot.
It's pretty slow going but my players really like the game so I guess it's fine.
I've DMed one game and it was rail road-y as fuck I have to admit, but it was structured and paced pretty well, so the players enjoyed that aspect of it.
[QUOTE=Vinh255;45301657]I run a sandbox game where all the players are doing stuff away from each other. I just do one on one sessions with people until I feel like bringing them together with plot.
It's pretty slow going but my players really like the game so I guess it's fine.[/QUOTE]
But that's the issue with doing one-on-one sessions. It just [i]feels[/i] different. Because having them all in separate chats, at the same time, means they can (and have before) by chance or by action, run into each other.
Like say, one player could go: "I'm in Part A of the city, but need to get to Part B and pass by the school to track down a clue on a murderer."
Meanwhile, a second player goes: "I'm in Part B of the city because the school is here and I was talking with my friends at school."
So in this case, I'll tell the second player, "from your vantage point in the window seat of the classroom you're in with your friends, you see Player One. But where could they be going? You can feel free to intervene, I'll bet it's something important. Player One is never around these parts."
Player Two usually responds with, "Nah I'll just stick with my (NPC) friends."
Me: "Are... are you sure? It's like, almost obviously something important. Just look out that window, Player One is going somewhere, alone. You've even got their number, you can at least give them a call and ask what's up."
P2: "Eh, I'm good. I'll hang with these guys."
Me: " :T "
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
Although, when they actually [i]do[/i] get together and do shit, it's pretty great (mostly for me because that's one less chat I need to deal with). It's always funny to see two players bump into each other by chance and end up sticking together.
Better yet is when there's a big monster thing one player finds that needs killing, and they give another player a call for backup.
...which happens almost never. The process usually goes, "Oh shit look at that a giant monster fuck it looks strong like stronger than shit you've fought before might want to call som-" "I attack it." "fuck"
Sandboxes require a LOT of effort in the beginning for stuff like worldbuilding, setting up locations, events, central and recurring themes.
But once you're done the initial fuckton of work. It's easier than normal games in my opinion, because you know your world from top to bottom, and it's way easier to improvise because it's harder to put something in that drastically fucks up the game, because most major things are already laid out. There have been several times in my normal games where I've had to go "Wait... shit sorry, I fucked up, thats not actually the case." and rewind ten minutes.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;45303194]Sandboxes require a LOT of effort in the beginning for stuff like worldbuilding, setting up locations, events, central and recurring themes.
But once you're done the initial fuckton of work. It's easier than normal games in my opinion, because you know your world from top to bottom, and it's way easier to improvise because it's harder to put something in that drastically fucks up the game, because most major things are already laid out. There have been several times in my normal games where I've had to go "Wait... shit sorry, I fucked up, thats not actually the case." and rewind ten minutes.[/QUOTE]
Why I'm happy I started a notebook for the settings I use. I have all the continents, countries, leaders, etc.
Every time I run a campaign with it, I can use any major events for more backstory in the world. Similarly, I can use old PCs as NPCs because they already have personalities backstories and goals already built by players.
Players just shouldn't split the party, when it comes to running separate one on one sessions what's the point really :v:
Games improve as much as ceramic bowls when broken up
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;45303701]Players just shouldn't split the party, when it comes to running separate one on one sessions what's the point really :v:
Games improve as much as ceramic bowls when broken up[/QUOTE]
If you're starting the game and you don't have all the players in your party, thats the only exception, but the game session should end with the party in a place to meet up before the next session.
I.E. Don't send two guys off on a ship halfway across the world.
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;45303701]Players just shouldn't split the party, when it comes to running separate one on one sessions what's the point really :v:
Games improve as much as ceramic bowls when broken up[/QUOTE]
Honestly you're pretty much right and the way I'm GMing my game only really works because i'm really good friends with everyone involved.
Well, despite issues with prepping I personally like world-building and setting up designed maps and structures for the players to interact with on top of pictures for some areas so they have something to look at along with atmospheric music. It tends to be something I throw in if I find the time. Plus, with Roll20's limited assets I can't do much to add variety to the maps/locations.
I don't think I'd be great at a sandbox unless it was the right party and a one-shot. I like to make outlines and give general directions with fancy schmancy stories and plots.
Something tells me I'm doing Challenge Rating math wrong. System is Pathfinder, obviously.
Current planned encounter:
1 serpentfolk (CR4)
3 lizardfolk (CR1 each, CR4 total according to the CR Equivalencies table)
1 manticore (CR5)
2 small elementals as summons (CR1 each, CR3 total)
That all adds up to CR16 - that is, a challenge appropriate for 4-5 16th-level characters. And that seems like bullshit to me, because they've done fights before with similar setups (manticore + a bunch of orcs) with little difficulty. This will definitely be hard for a part of five 3rd- to 5th-level characters, but I really doubt it will be flat-out impossible as the math seems to say. Or am I doing something completely wrong here?
[QUOTE=gman003-main;45305143]Something tells me I'm doing Challenge Rating math wrong. System is Pathfinder, obviously.
Current planned encounter:
1 serpentfolk (CR4)
3 lizardfolk (CR1 each, CR4 total according to the CR Equivalencies table)
1 manticore (CR5)
2 small elementals as summons (CR1 each, CR3 total)
That all adds up to CR16 - that is, a challenge appropriate for 4-5 16th-level characters. And that seems like bullshit to me, because they've done fights before with similar setups (manticore + a bunch of orcs) with little difficulty. This will definitely be hard for a part of five 3rd- to 5th-level characters, but I really doubt it will be flat-out impossible as the math seems to say. Or am I doing something completely wrong here?[/QUOTE]
Youre absolutely doing something wrong. The way [i]I[/i] do it is the CR is equivalent to the COMBINED levels of the party.
Multiply what you currently have by 4/5 and baby, you got a stew going.
(This is not right at all, btw.)
[QUOTE=gman003-main;45305143]Something tells me I'm doing Challenge Rating math wrong. System is Pathfinder, obviously.
Current planned encounter:
1 serpentfolk (CR4)
3 lizardfolk (CR1 each, CR4 total according to the CR Equivalencies table)
1 manticore (CR5)
2 small elementals as summons (CR1 each, CR3 total)
That all adds up to CR16 - that is, a challenge appropriate for 4-5 16th-level characters. And that seems like bullshit to me, because they've done fights before with similar setups (manticore + a bunch of orcs) with little difficulty. This will definitely be hard for a part of five 3rd- to 5th-level characters, but I really doubt it will be flat-out impossible as the math seems to say. Or am I doing something completely wrong here?[/QUOTE]
You don't add up monsters based on CR. You add them up based on total XP awarded for the encounter.
EG a CR 16 encounter should have a total XP of about 76800, as shown [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering]on this page[/url]. So you take, for example, an old green dragon(CR 15, 51200 xp), and then throw in its two young adult green dragon children(each CR 11, 12800 xp/25600 xp total). That totals up to 76800 xp, and should be a decently matched encounter for a group of 3-4 level 16 players. If you want it to be harder, up the CR by one or two levels, and change the monsters accordingly.
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
Your proposed way of doing it makes things [I]way[/I] too easy for the players, since all that totals up to an encounter CR of 8. [I]Half their level.[/I]
[editline]5th July 2014[/editline]
If any of your players are powergamey/minmaxed as shit, either increase the APL a bit to compensate, or, better yet, tell them to chill the fuck out and try and stay at the same power level as the rest of the group, else everyone is gonna have a bad time.(See: Siberys managing to solo a monster that was like CR 15 while the group was level 10 and the rest of us just hoping it didn't launch fireballs at us while we were dealing with the minions.)
Ran M&M again this morning with the group. This session was a 'special edition' based around one of the players who is literally playing Jesus Christ, which is hilarious by its own merits.
I had loads of signs throughout the session indicating the presence of a demonic entity going around scaring everyone (freak weather patterns, spatial disturbances, frequent ominous latin chanting, etc). Eventually they ended up at a gas station being robbed at gunpoint by a bunch of thugs, all of whom appeared to be busy shooting at the guy who pretty much looked like the devil in a business suit. Jesus decides to intervene.
While Jesus was distracted by [B]Mr. Devil[/B] (the new anti-hero on the block looking for brownie points), the others catch wind (via a news report) of a UFO, that appears to have come from somewhere in the middle east (Jerusalem), and will impact within the city in a matter of minutes. The party wizard began ritualizing a magic shield over the gas station to protect Jesus from the incoming UFO whilst the others braced for impact. The UFO smashes down in the street next to them (nearly pasting the party's resident techie) and it is revealed to be a 10ft tall, clockwork/steamdriven, bronze-built, Roman Centurion-shaped Robot. Jesus then has a brief flashback to 30AD where he recalls the ancient [B]Centurion[/B] ([I]which was secretly made by an envious Judas before the Romans just crucified Jesus anyway about a week later[/I]) nearly succeeding in killing him before the machine was handily disabled and then buried for nearly 2000 years.
Mr. Devil and Jesus form a temporary alliance and battle with the ancient assassin began. Several brutal rounds ensued, demonstrating the hardy toughness of the automaton and its mighty strength. A devastating armblade heft from the Centurion managed to pierce through the (admittedly shitty) magical barrier and Jesus' upper torso. The party's wizard decided (in spite of his better judgement) to throw a semi-trailer at the mechanical menace despite half the party standing right next to it at the time. Everyone, save for the Centurion of course, were incapacitated by this bold move as the semi harmlessly glanced off its metallic armor and onto them. Things looked bad.
Then, just in the nick of time, they managed to stop the deadly droid from re-killing Jesus by impaling it with the gas station's 30ft sign pole, bringing it's ancient gears (and it's reign of terror) to a grinding halt.
End of Session.
Gilmore monstergirls are having trouble staying conscious in combat, but that's mostly because burrowing enemies are bullshit man
So I made a table for distorting magic(around monoliths), in an aberration apocalypse scenario. But the campaign was scrapped due to several reasons before it managed to get where I could use the table. Croguy helped me make this, and came up with the idea that I should post it somewhere, so I decided that I should post it here.
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/17Gw45zjMeKwrJ0ykVl6pbep3sDxCctXgKDO4A4ptdDw[/url]
It was based of this table: [url]http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16810[/url]
All the highlighted lines are lines that me and croguy changed to fit more a "fucked up situation"/aberrations etc.
[QUOTE=Nitrowing;45307003]Ran M&M again this morning with the group. This session was a 'special edition' based around one of the players who is literally playing Jesus Christ, which is hilarious by its own merits.
I had loads of signs throughout the session indicating the presence of a demonic entity going around scaring everyone (freak weather patterns, spatial disturbances, frequent ominous latin chanting, etc). Eventually they ended up at a gas station being robbed at gunpoint by a bunch of thugs, all of whom appeared to be busy shooting at the guy who pretty much looked like the devil in a business suit. Jesus decides to intervene.
While Jesus was distracted by [B]Mr. Devil[/B] (the new anti-hero on the block looking for brownie points), the others catch wind (via a news report) of a UFO, that appears to have come from somewhere in the middle east (Jerusalem), and will impact within the city in a matter of minutes. The party wizard began ritualizing a magic shield over the gas station to protect Jesus from the incoming UFO whilst the others braced for impact. The UFO smashes down in the street next to them (nearly pasting the party's resident techie) and it is revealed to be a 10ft tall, clockwork/steamdriven, bronze-built, Roman Centurion-shaped Robot. Jesus then has a brief flashback to 30AD where he recalls the ancient [B]Centurion[/B] ([I]which was secretly made by an envious Judas before the Romans just crucified Jesus anyway about a week later[/I]) nearly succeeding in killing him before the machine was handily disabled and then buried for nearly 2000 years.
Mr. Devil and Jesus form a temporary alliance and battle with the ancient assassin began. Several brutal rounds ensued, demonstrating the hardy toughness of the automaton and its mighty strength. A devastating armblade heft from the Centurion managed to pierce through the (admittedly shitty) magical barrier and Jesus' upper torso. The party's wizard decided (in spite of his better judgement) to throw a semi-trailer at the mechanical menace despite half the party standing right next to it at the time. Everyone, save for the Centurion of course, were incapacitated by this bold move as the semi harmlessly glanced off its metallic armor and onto them. Things looked bad.
Then, just in the nick of time, they managed to stop the deadly droid from re-killing Jesus by impaling it with the gas station's 30ft sign pole, bringing it's ancient gears (and it's reign of terror) to a grinding halt.
End of Session.[/QUOTE]
Chronic shitty wizard syndrome is a real problem you know. I've been taking meds for it but it doesn't seem to help.
[QUOTE=xxfalconxx;45309563]Chronic shitty wizard syndrome is a real problem you know. I've been taking meds for it but it doesn't seem to help.[/QUOTE]
Oh god, you're the wizard? R.I.P.
Just started DMing for a group recently, we are all pretty much new to the game and I had a couple questions that I am having a hard time finding the answers to.
I'm playing 4th edition by the way because I was most familiar with it to start.
I read up on stealth mechanics, and it says the player makes stealth checks against the enemy's PASSIVE PERCEPTION, but the monsters / enemy's card only shows a perception modifier (for instance +5 for Human Mage). So how do player stealth checks actually work? Do they roll a number and then each enemy rolls against it to see who can all see them?
When an ongoing effect says "save ends" is it just a straight up roll of 10 or higher on a d20? Or does each effect have specific modifiers to apply to the d20 roll? Based on what I have read it seems as though its just a 50 / 50 chance that you save on any given effect.
How do you treat minor actions? Some sources have it down to each type of action using a certain amount of points, while others say that its down to the discretion of the DM.
And I guess lastly, I would just ask if anyone has any advice or tools to make encounters go smoother, I would love to have the compendium of skills on computer to start with since my PC's don't know their own skills super well yet, but as of right now my tools consist of an excel spreadsheet with character stats and encounter info, and the main books. A way to get monster & skill blocks on my computer without having to subscribe to DDI would be awesome.
Thanks for any help
[QUOTE=Smeetin;45316234]its down to the discretion of the DM.[/QUOTE]
This applies to all of the rules! :v:
Idk about point spending, as far as I know turns are split into move action/major action/minor action, simple as that. iirc you can sacrifice your major for a second move, and possibly sacrifice your move for another minor (again even if this isn't the case you could just make it so if you liked the sound of it, you have the advantage of everyone being new to the game so you can play fast and loose with the established stuff and nobody will pull you up about it)
@ the last question, you could try setting up a couple of scrapes that pander to specific abilities among their PCs, thus encouraging them into the habit of scanning their sheets for clever character-specific solutions to things. Dunno if that was the sort of answer you were after, gl anyway
Passive Perception is 10+Perception modifier. Your move has a Major, a Move and a Minor action. You can swap the Major down to a move and you can swap moves down to a minor. You have as many free actions as you want to take. Save ends is 50/50 unless otherwise stated your players probably don't have any modifiers yet but it'll be written on the creature sheets if they have modifiers or not. As for making things easier I just wrote absolutely fucking everything on a bunch of excel documents and got better at navigating them over time.
thanks guys
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