[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;40504256]Yeah, we have differing opinions on things. I kinda figured that a while ago, but that doesn't mean he has to not like me :([/QUOTE]
I don't blame him- You were being highly opinionated, and highly vocal about it. :v:
I'll give you that, I did express very opinionated statements, and I apologize if that's frowned upon here. Yes, I think Pathfinder is merely a good, not a great, system. I don't like alignment systems. I encourage new people to browse around all of the recent incarnations of D&D rather than just one before settling on an edition. And I just flat out don't like GURPS.
Yeah I'm being vocal about these stuff, but I don't go after people that hold the polar opposite of these opinions. You like GURPS, cool. You hold Pathfinder in a divine light like I hold Savage Worlds in a divine light, fine. We can discuss the pros and cons of all of that stuff instead of breaking each other's hearts by insults. That's what this thread is about, right? Discussions?
not really we just talk about how much better pathfinder/3.5/DH/Eclipse Phase is better than everything else
and we daydream about a world where people DM shadowrun sometimes.
basically you're going against a decent majority by being so vocal about things, and we all have a special hatred for 4e and onwards, because "oh you can just homebrew some stuff" doesn't make it a good system.
If other systems were better than D&D then why isn't the thread named after them instead?
Check[I]mate[/I]
I was going to reply but you guys pretty much summed up what i would have said so fuck it :v:
If you need to homebrew shit to enjoy it, that actually makes it a shitty system. Which large amount of people who played dnd before 4e came out agree that 4e is.
4e is pretty much wizards going: "Oh hey guys you hear about them video games? Yeah, now you can play dnd like a video game except it's still a tabletop! Amazing, right?"
+3.5 to 4e was the biggest change wizards ever did regarding the lore of the world and how things work, considering they made Tieflings, which are meant to be the offspring of demons and humans, a [i]rarity[/i], a core race, and made gnomes a rarity in their place.
They also went from having magic being something that you could only use a limited number of times a day, to being 100% video game-based casting where you just point at something and fling spells at it until it dies without worry of running out of spells.
Pretty much, only people who want DND to be a video game enjoy 4e very much.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
It's okay if you enjoy systems other than 3.5 and pathfinder, as long as you don't tout 4e as being flat-out better than anything.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
Also Rents and Elowin ninja'd me that first line was referring to what NPH said.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;40504488]We can discuss the pros and cons of all of that stuff instead of breaking each other's hearts by insults. That's what this thread is about, right? Discussions?[/QUOTE]
He didn't really insult you, you're just taking what he said too personally.
If you plan on posting something that, when viewed objectively would be highly opinionated, you should preface with 'It is my opinion that', or some variation thereof. I say this only because people are often butthurt and we really don't need any more edition wars.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rats808;40504823]
Pretty much, only people who want DND to be a video game enjoy 4e very much.
[/QUOTE]
You! You! Stop it, you! Even if you are right. :v:
[QUOTE]
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
It's okay if you enjoy systems other than 3.5 and pathfinder, as long as you don't tout 4e as being flat-out better than anything.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
Also Rents and Elowin ninja'd me that first line was referring to what NPH said.[/QUOTE]
Nevermind~
also the spell-plague is the worst thing ever and wizards should feel bad for even thinking of it
Guys can we not be friends :(
Can we not be united in our enjoyment of dice-related imagination games
[QUOTE=Rats808;40504823]If you need to homebrew shit to enjoy it, that actually makes it a shitty system. Which large amount of people who played dnd before 4e came out agree that 4e is.[/QUOTE]
Then by that definition, people who have homebrewed rules for Pathfinder who feel that certain aspects of it don't suit them or their party, makes it a shitty system, no? Different parties have different takes on certain aspects of PF. I, for example, tone down what I think is the overreliance on [I]detect magic[/I], and the party is fine with it.
[quote]Pretty much, only people who want DND to be a video game enjoy 4e very much.[/quote]
Or, you know, only people that just like it over other systems. Just like people who enjoy Pathfinder over other systems. That's like saying only people who want D&D to be math homework and large amounts of paperwork in the guise of an RPG enjoy it very much.
[quote]It's okay if you enjoy systems other than 3.5 and pathfinder, as long as you don't tout 4e as being flat-out better than anything.[/quote]
You certainly won't be hearing that from me. I enjoy both 4e and PF for what they offer to the table
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40504976]also the spell-plague is the worst thing ever and wizards should feel bad for even thinking of it[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it sucks that Mulhorand was wiped away, my favorite part of the Realms :(
But I did like the post-Spellplague Neverwinter book. Factional fighting, skullduggery, intrigue. That was the very first proper game I ran, a sandbox campaign a la Fallout New Vegas, ie factions jockeying for power in a city and the region. Two warforged, one of which fought a kraken and harnessed its power. Two spellscarred dragonborn. One Red Wizard renegade. Memories~
when you have to homebrew to make a basic feature like SKILLS work, then it's a shitty situation
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40505148]when you have to homebrew to make a basic feature like SKILLS work, then it's a shitty system[/QUOTE]
Goddammit stop it people
why can't nerds ever get along
[QUOTE=M.Ciaster;40505171]Goddammit stop it people
why can't nerds ever get along[/QUOTE]
Because we're nerds. Arguing is what we do.
As a nerd of many flavors, I can tell you that it doesn't change. We have wars of Star Wars vs. Star Trek, Emacs vs. vim, Esperanto vs. Interlingua, you name it, nerds have argued about it.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40505148]when you have to homebrew to make a basic feature like SKILLS work, then it's a shitty situation[/quote]
Well again, Next is still in playtesting, and anything can change. I'm pretty damn sure there's a lot of playtesters that, like yourself, hold that ability scores and skills should be their own thing, and thus said input goes back to Wizards. They've clearly been listening, what with all the changes to the playtesting materials I've seen.
They know they're not going to satisfy everyone and bring everyone over to the new edition, so sometimes compromise just won't work. That being said, I hope they offer different ways for skills to be represented, whether as separate as they are in normal D&D (ie PF/3.5/4e) or have them just be specialized rolls from ability checks, as they are currently in Playtesting.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;40505250]Because we're nerds. Arguing is what we do.
As a nerd of many flavors, I can tell you that it doesn't change. We have wars of Star Wars vs. Star Trek, Emacs vs. vim, Esperanto vs. Interlingua, you name it, nerds have argued about it.[/QUOTE]
I would like to dispute that.
[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;40505298]I would like to dispute that.[/QUOTE]
Your instant readiness to argue only proves my point.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;40505321]Your instant readiness to argue only proves my point.[/QUOTE]
That was the joke.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
Fight me irl
Seriously guys? Are you honestly arguing how allowed people are to state their opinion?
Well people are posting their opinions of other people that also have opinions.
[QUOTE=Rhenae;40505380]Seriously guys? Are you honestly arguing how allowed people are to state their opinion?[/QUOTE]
I mean I do get what they're saying. "Pathfinder is not a perfect system, and I find certain aspects of it to be meh, such as its alignment system, that large amount of bookeeping, large prepreation time for the GM, the long combats, and others, but overall, it's a well-supported, good system" is better than "Pathfinder sucks big giant elephant nutsack and everyone who plays it is a dull rules lawyer".
That being said, I think I fit somewhere in those two extremes and I'm perfectly OK with this
I think alignment systems in general suck, at least in terms of the good/evil aspect.
[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;40505479]I think alignment systems in general suck, at least in terms of the good/evil aspect.[/QUOTE]
This is why I love Eberron's setting, regardless of what edition is used for it. Alignment is much more vague and has a lot of shades of grey. CE gold dragons can exist as much as LG black dragons. Divine classes won't lose their powers as long as they don't explicitly stop worshipping their deity
Too bad Pathfinder doesn't support certain Eberron aspects like artificers, warforged, shifters, kalashtar, and dragonmarks. I suppose dragonmarks are easy, just take the feats from the Eberron 3.5 book and replace their spells with their appropiate Pathfinder counterparts.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;40505472]large amount of bookeeping, large prepreation time for the GM, the long combats[/QUOTE]
where did you get this from
Just going to drop this here.
[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/crazy_straws.png[/img]
Always a relevant xkcd.
So I'm trying to think of a way for my players to meet other than "Fixer calls you with job" and so far I have an elaborate train jacking planned out. They all just so happen to be on the same train when a bunch of terrorists take it over and plant bombs so when it reaches the final stop it'll explode and blow up the station or whatever. They'll have to work together to stop the terrorists from blowing them up, or escape the moving train. I don't know what I'm doing, and this could be completely retarded.
that sounds cool
much better than the average "You wake up with a group of strangers" hook
[QUOTE=Antary;40505578]where did you get this from[/QUOTE]
My own experiences, really. From the games I've GM'd in PF, it takes more GM preparation time out of game and more GM system mastery in game, especially if you've got one or more min/max players, to keep things working properly. The game itself is a resource management-oriented game on the players' part (managing spells, hit points, equipment, etc.) and the GM's part (making your own villains/customized monsters, balancing encounters and treasure on appropriate CR levels). Seriously, try putting together a level 12 fighter as an NPC on the fly in the middle of combat. It sucks when you tell your players "sorry, I don't have this guy statted out".
As I said, those traits doesn't make it a completely bad system. If I hated PF as much as some people on here hate 4e I wouldn't even bother playing it, or running it for that matter. It's just a kind of game that has certain aspects that I don't 100% like. That being said I know if, given enough tinkering it [I]could[/I] be adapted to the kind of playstyle I like, which is ultimately why I think it's a solid system, albeit a flawed one.
[QUOTE=ElTacoLad;40505804]So I'm trying to think of a way for my players to meet other than "Fixer calls you with job" and so far I have an elaborate train jacking planned out. They all just so happen to be on the same train when a bunch of terrorists take it over and plant bombs so when it reaches the final stop it'll explode and blow up the station or whatever. They'll have to work together to stop the terrorists from blowing them up, or escape the moving train. I don't know what I'm doing, and this could be completely retarded.[/QUOTE]
That's a great way to bring runners together (assuming you're talking about Shadowrun here) actually. Feels much more natural too if you can pull it off. Make sure they so happen to be in the same train car as well, but not necessarily all near each other. A GM I know did something similar on a plane, and the PCs couldn't really escape, and their lives were at stake, so they had to try to deal with the problem, ie the plane 'jackers.
"wow, you really nailed those terrorists!"
"and you hacked the shit out of the train just to make it stop, well done"
"you're a spell slinger? wow you popped 'dem good with your spirits"
"we make a good team, we should work together and make lods of money"
I like Eclipse Phase because it allows people to be very invested in the world and players can actually imagine themselves interacting and exploring it.
yeah all week ive been super hyped for the next game of EP
speaking of, i still gotta go over my shopping list for upgrades with you
yeah for those in the session remember that there's going to be some in-game time lapse before next session
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