[QUOTE=Newbienice99;41419551]So I was considering playing monk for a pathfinder campaign, but then kept seeing people complain about pathfinder Monks being underpowered and that the devs nerf the crap out of them. Is it really that bad, or are they playable?[/QUOTE]
They're underpowered if you want to do nothing but punch things.
I've not had a campaign in ages. On top of that I'm inexperienced as shit in Pathfinder and D&D. I've only played a few extremely modified d20 campaigns. Any idea where I could find a little more starter-friendly bunch of folks to go with?
[QUOTE=Carnotite;41419937]
The Qinggong, Zen Archer, and [B]Tetori archetype[/B]s change the class up and give it alternate abilities to choose from or a focus on archery or grappling respectively, if those types of combat interest you.[/QUOTE]
I do want to do grappling and unarmed with weapons for stuff it's unrealistic to grapple or has DR I need to bypass, but that archetype removes flurry of blows in favor of some small bonuses to grapple which seems like it would massively decrease the character's damage output.
I might take Qinggong just to get rid of some of the abilities I don't think will be useful. Mostly slow fall other than that Qinggong is basically still the base monk.
[QUOTE=Ban Evasion Alt;41423934]They're underpowered if you want to do nothing but punch things.[/QUOTE]
Does that mean unarmed is not viable at all, or just that I need weapons for when I need to bypass DR (until fists become magical and whatnot) and need to do combat manuevers and such?
Monks are really strange. They are like the Wizards of martial classes. They need lots and lots of levels, but when they have them, they are really, really good.
But at the start, most people can do what they do, except better.
[QUOTE=Newbienice99;41425107]Does that mean unarmed is not viable at all, or just that I need weapons for when I need to bypass DR (until fists become magical and whatnot) and need to do combat manuevers and such?[/QUOTE]
I mean they're not a pure combat class, they're a mix of utility and combat ability, so if you're judging them by or only using them for that, you're going to think they suck.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
This reminds me of an argument I had with a guy who insisted (yelled like a rabid neckbeard) that a fighter with the right feats is better than any ranger combat style tree.
Monks have a lot of troubles;
*They need a lot of stats to be good; Strength, Dexterity, Constitution and Wisdom
*Enchanting weapons is expensive ( You've got four limbs, a face, and a dozen other striking surfaces )
*A lot of the bonuses they get as they level are rather superfluous, though flavourful. A monk really doesn't need immunity to natural poisons and diseases, given how cheap and easy such magical items are to find. Even at level 20, the capstone is very sub par- 10 DR isn't much at level 20.
That said, if you're running on a high point buy and you know what you're doing, Monks can still compete for damage while being one of the most interesting, self sufficient characters to play.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ban Evasion Alt;41425683]I mean they're not a pure combat class, they're a mix of utility and combat ability, so if you're judging them by or only using them for that, you're going to think they suck.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
This reminds me of an argument I had with a guy who insisted (yelled like a rabid neckbeard) that a fighter with the right feats is better than any ranger combat style tree.[/QUOTE]
Your friend is pretty much right. Animal companions usually get squashed in open combat, and the rangers spell selection is mediocre at best.
But there's really no point in yelling about it. :v:
[QUOTE=Oliolio;41426106]Your friend is pretty much right. Animal companions usually get squashed in open combat, and the rangers spell selection is mediocre at best.
But there's really no point in yelling about it. :v:[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about PF, where animal companions are marginally less crap, and you can get an ability that gives the whole party part of your favoured enemy bonus instead anyway.
[QUOTE=Ban Evasion Alt;41426238]I'm talking about PF, where animal companions are marginally less crap, and you can get an ability that gives the whole party part of your favoured enemy bonus instead anyway.[/QUOTE]
I was also talking about PF.
[QUOTE=Ban Evasion Alt;41425683]
This reminds me of an argument I had with a guy who insisted (yelled like a rabid neckbeard) that a fighter with the right feats is better than any ranger combat style tree.[/QUOTE]
If he says that, he doesn`t know how to make a proper Ranger.
[QUOTE=Oliolio;41426106]Monks have a lot of troubles;
*They need a lot of stats to be good; Strength, Dexterity, Constitution and Wisdom
*Enchanting weapons is expensive ( You've got four limbs, a face, and a dozen other striking surfaces )
*A lot of the bonuses they get as they level are rather superfluous, though flavourful. A monk really doesn't need immunity to natural poisons and diseases, given how cheap and easy such magical items are to find. Even at level 20, the capstone is very sub par- 10 DR isn't much at level 20.
That said, if you're running on a high point buy and you know what you're doing, Monks can still compete for damage while being one of the most interesting, self sufficient characters to play.[/QUOTE]
I play a zen archer monks, something people say is probably one of the best archetypes of monk, and I still suck majorly compared to a cleric. And I'm really only good in combat, compared to the cleric, who has good all around stats.
For example, I can run 3 flurry of blows at this one guy while my cleric can cast a spell on himself and then swoop in and decapitate the guy in one blow.
Well I talked to my DM and he seems pretty flexible, so we'll figure it out if problems happen.
[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;41420284]Sigh
Anyone know any effective ways to make powergamers stop arguing with you about the rules short of just dropping purple lightning on him and hoping he gets the message
Because literally, he spent half of a perfectly good session of what was supposed to be a quick dungeon fight with a dragon at the end to introduce our new player arguing with me about dumb minutia, and I was about this close to just dropping a rock on his head it was so annoying[/QUOTE]
Tell them to shut the fuck up, sit down and get along with the game. You're the Game Master, what you say, goes. His fun doesn't come at the expense of everyone elses.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;41426549]I play a zen archer monks, something people say is probably one of the best archetypes of monk, and I still suck majorly compared to a cleric. And I'm really only good in combat, compared to the cleric, who has good all around stats.
For example, I can run 3 flurry of blows at this one guy while my cleric can cast a spell on himself and then swoop in and decapitate the guy in one blow.[/QUOTE]
It helps that I accidentally gave the Cleric a +2 greatsword at level 1.
[i]And[/i] that he's a battle cleric of Gorum, aka the god of battles.
[QUOTE=Oliolio;41426106]That said, if you're running on a high point buy and you know what you're doing, Monks can still compete for damage while being one of the most interesting, self sufficient characters to play.[/QUOTE]
Monks certainly carry a presence, I've always found them one of the more interesting classes to play as.
[QUOTE]True Sacrifice (Su)
At 20th level, in a final selfless act, a monk of the healing hand can draw in his entire ki, which then explodes outward in a 50-foot-radius emanation. All dead allies within the emanation are brought back to life, as if they were the subject of a true resurrection spell with a caster level equal to the monk's level. When the monk does this, he is truly and utterly destroyed. A monk destroyed in this way can never come back to life, not even by way of a wish or miracle spell or by the power of a deity. Furthermore, the monk's name can never be spoken or written down again. All written mentions of his name become nothing more than a blank space. This ability replaces perfect self.[/QUOTE]
And they get a quick way to ascend a character to legend status within a group. :v:
Well Fiasco looks like it's stalled completely. The system is fun but we sort of shot ourselves in the foot with bizarre continuity and ill thought out plot elements.
Storytime is available if anyone's interested. It involves vietnam veterans and seals stealing packages in the antarctic.
[QUOTE=Axznma;41433794]Monks certainly carry a presence, I've always found them one of the more interesting classes to play as.
And they get a quick way to ascend a character to legend status within a group. :v:[/QUOTE]
I'll be honest, at level 20, you're pretty much done anyway, at that point the GM goes into seven samurai mode and starts thinking of the most badass ways for you guys to die.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;41435753] starts thinking of the most badass ways for you guys to die.[/QUOTE]
If it doesn't include volcanoes and megasharks, it's not good enough.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcNJjXlsbe0[/media]
I know "Shit _ says" is old, but damn is it true.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;41438148][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcNJjXlsbe0[/media]
I know "Shit _ says" is old, but damn is it true.[/QUOTE]
at the end of the DND part he should have said 3rd edition sucks, just so he came around to every edition
I'm separating talking to normal people, street thugs, poor people, and talking to rich assholes, bigwigs and execs into two skills in the Cyberpunk system I'm doing up, and I need names for the skills.
'Diplomacy' and 'Real Talk' are the main contenders
[QUOTE=Rents;41451597]I'm separating talking to normal people, street thugs, poor people, and talking to rich assholes, bigwigs and execs into two skills in the Cyberpunk system I'm doing up, and I need names for the skills.
'Diplomacy' and 'Real Talk' are the main contenders[/QUOTE]
how about just
corporate diplomacy
and street diplomacy
Networking and Streetwise
[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;41453467]Networking and Streetwise[/QUOTE]
Awesome, cheers.
high class prostitution and prostitution
[QUOTE=cdr248;41453513]high class prostitution and prostitution[/QUOTE]
this is the way to go
Persuasion attempts always end with seduction attempts
Bureaucracy for dealing with business types and talking about business-y shit, Streetwise for dealing with non-business types, Diplomacy for everything else.
[QUOTE=cdr248;41453574]Persuasion attempts always end with seduction attempts[/QUOTE]
My attempts at Diplomacy and Persuasion always get veto'd to rolling for Intimidation...
I'm not very good with people.
So out of boredom I just decided to read the D&D 4th edition rules
This actually looks kinda neat, insofar as the combat system
It might lack the ridiculous open-ended-ness of 3.5, but at least it's balanced and combat characters have something to do besides just saying 'attack' repeatedly
i think you should keep Real Talk
i really like that term for a skill
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