What are your thoughts on the 4X genre? - Games

Honestly, I do not consider Sins of a Solar Empire to be a 4x game. It is pretty much an rts at least in my opinion. [editline]17th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Drury;46509919]Actually had to google the term, apparently Factorio fits within this genre (in a rather unusual way). Never played any other games, Factorio is a blast though.[/QUOTE] I fail to see how Factorio is a 4X.

Because you eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate. [editline]17th November 2014[/editline] It's also isometric and very micromanagement-heavy. Can't say it's not complex either.

[QUOTE=junker154;46510790]Honestly, I do not consider Sins of a Solar Empire to be a 4x game. It is pretty much an rts at least in my opinion. [editline]17th November 2014[/editline] I fail to see how Factorio is a 4X.[/QUOTE] I also disagree with Factorio being a "real" 4X, however it fits the explanation of 4X, which is explore, expand, exploit, exterminate. You are doing all 4 of these in Factorio, however not on the same scale as in other games. Currently, whenever I hear 4X I instantly imagine a game where you are managing big empires on vastness of space or land, controlling many functions of said empire, like political, warfare, research, expansion... and now as I think about it, isn't Factorio basically the same? Imagine your big industrial complex as an empire, you are building it from the scratch, at one point you will build multiple industrial bases on a single map and connect them via rail. That's like building another city in Civ game or colonizing a new planet in space 4x game... Interesting...

[QUOTE=Drury;46510842]Because you eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate. [editline]17th November 2014[/editline] It's also isometric and very micromanagement-heavy.[/QUOTE] True, but in 4X games you mostly assume the role of a leader, managing your faction in a strategic manner and it different aspects. Destiny is a 4X as well by your definition.

Yeah I did say in an unusual way. It has all the elements of a 4x game, just not in the same sense as most 4x games. Fairly enough the game itself is difficult to pin down to a single genre, but 4X is so far the best fit I've come across. [editline]17th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Avager;46510847]I also disagree with Factorio being a "real" 4X, however it fits the explanation of 4X, which is explore, expand, exploit, exterminate. You are doing all 4 of these in Factorio, however not on the same scale as in other games. Currently, whenever I hear 4X I instantly imagine a game where you are managing big empires on vastness of space or land, controlling many functions of said empire, like political, warfare, research, expansion... and now as I think about it, isn't Factorio basically the same? Imagine your big industrial complex as an empire, you are building it from the scratch, at one point you will build multiple industrial bases on a single map and connect them via rail. That's like building another city in Civ game or colonizing a new planet in space 4x game... Interesting...[/QUOTE] Most of all, you have a lot of things in your factory to keep tabs on, else the whole thing just stops working and collapses on you. You have to manage the factory's needs (resources, electricity), you have to manage research, you have to manage "foreign relations" with biters (i.e. building enough turrets, cutting down on pollution), you have to balance it all for each outpost depending on local conditions. Sounds completely different from things like diplomacy or economy management, but from game design perspective it's the same concept, just with different nametags and graphical representation. The game pace is about the same as most 4X games (hours upon hours per session), the scale seems smaller at first but really, it's just the theme of the game dictating that you don't expand across the planet/multiple systems; in reality you can expand to a ridiculous degree considering it's "just a guy building factories", hence there's railroads. It's different in the sense that it's real-time and you're a dude walking around, albeit you can zoom out quite a bit to properly see a lot at once. Then there's not that much to conquering biters other than obtaining biter-exclusive resources from them (alien artifacts) and preventing them from destroying your factories. And the whole thing about it being about expanding industrial production rather than empires.

[QUOTE=Banned?;46508126]I must have stared at Sword of the Stars are a good 20 minutes before I realized I don't know what I was looking at. It also doesn't help that a lot of the go-to learning tools are YouTube videos that can go to an upwards of a half hour because there isn't a decent in-game tutorial.[/QUOTE] SOTS 2 has got to have some of the most badly-explained mechanics and badly designed UI of all the 4X games I've played. The diplomacy screen, for example, has the button to open up the diplomacy options almost hidden within the window frame. They could have solved the mechanics issue by implementing a decent tutorial or a short campaign, but all there is instant action and MP. I've heard the combat is awesome, but I can't stand the awful UI and slow performance (even Civ 5 loads faster, and that's a slow game to start) to get to the combat.

Distant Worlds: Univese is the best 4X I've ever played. Spent over 20 hours trying to conquer max sized galaxy. God dammned pirates killing my fuel stations ;_;

[QUOTE=woot835;46511416]Distant Worlds: Univese is the best 4X I've ever played. Spent over 20 hours trying to conquer max sized galaxy. God dammned pirates killing my fuel stations ;_;[/QUOTE] How's the AI in DW? I basically never playing 4X games (besides Star Ruler) online, so good AI is a big deal for me.

[QUOTE=Saber15;46513706]How's the AI in DW? I basically never playing 4X games (besides Star Ruler) online, so good AI is a big deal for me.[/QUOTE] It is very customizable and really good, you can change a lot of modifiers. It's so in-depth and vast. Galactic Civilizations 2 has also an incredible AI compared to other 4X games, diplomacy is also pretty deep.

[img_thumb]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rXHFlZlc89M/maxresdefault.jpg[/img_thumb] One of my favorite 4X games 150+ sectors. Mine/Buy/Sell/Trade resources. Conquer/Capture/Reverse Engineer/Construct/Buy stations/Ships/Fleets Rebirth was a terrible disappointment

[QUOTE=TheTalon;46513790] Rebirth was a terrible disappointment[/QUOTE] Have you tried X:R 2.5? It's actually an enjoyable (IMO) game now, though I don't think it'll ever live up to X3TC. There's an expansion pack (free when preordered on STEAM) and a 3.0 update coming in December.

[QUOTE=Saber15;46513706]How's the AI in DW? I basically never playing 4X games (besides Star Ruler) online, so good AI is a big deal for me.[/QUOTE] The AI can play the whole game for you if you want, but I leave the AI on suggestions only. I wanna exterminate all of the Pirate scum on my own and not leave all the fun for the AI.

To people who play Distand Worlds: is the extended universe mod worth using for a completely new player? Or should I consider installing that once I get a bit more used to the game? Also what's a good UI mod? The current icons are a bit bleh.

[QUOTE=Demoness;46517063]To people who play Distand Worlds: is the extended universe mod worth using for a completely new player? Or should I consider installing that once I get a bit more used to the game? Also what's a good UI mod? The current icons are a bit bleh.[/QUOTE] It's worth using. it basically replaces ugly portraits of vanilla races with custom ones, adds plenty of new races, etc. It's not an overhaul but a good upgrade. Probably a must have.

[QUOTE=Saber15;46513897]Have you tried X:R 2.5? It's actually an enjoyable (IMO) game now, though I don't think it'll ever live up to X3TC. There's an expansion pack (free when preordered on STEAM) and a 3.0 update coming in December.[/QUOTE] I'll check it out after 3.0 then. Albion Prelude with the Rebalanced Mod is just much better. All Rebirth has over X3 is visuals and the more seamless universe, everything else is just worse, by a lot

[QUOTE=junker154;46504920]Endless Space is decent although lacks a lot of depth. It has a great inferface and graphics though, the music is great as well. Endless Legends is apparently a blast to play and an amazing game, much better than Endless Space. Haven't played it yet though.[/QUOTE] I haven't tried Endless Space, but if it's somehow less deep than Endless Legends then it must be ridiculously shallow.

I've started to play Civ V and so far all my cities are under constant barbarian attacks.

[QUOTE=elowin;46517632]I haven't tried Endless Space, but if it's somehow less deep than Endless Legends then it must be ridiculously shallow.[/QUOTE] The biggest difference between ES and EL is the combat. ES uses card-based combat where you assign one action per range (long, medium, close) and your fleet uses those actions against the enemy. Aside from changing your card selection mid-battle, it's not very interactive.

I tried playing ES once but Card-based combat is shit imo

[QUOTE=Spenser4Hire;46485422]I would like to know, what are your thoughts on the 4X genre of games and gaming? I have always been a fan of games like Civilization and Gal Civ II. I would like to know what have been your experiences with this genre and [B]what are your thoughts on it[/B]?[/QUOTE] we need more of them. also more hybrid 4x like sins of a solar empire and sword of the stars would be cool.

In my opinion, Endless Legend and Age of Wonders 3 are currently some of the best 4x games out there at the moment. AoW3 is a bit lighter on the empire side than EL though, but what it lacks in empire management it makes up for in spades with it's hero system, table-top like combat, dungeons, etc. Really great game, very pretty to look at too.

Star Ruler with Galactic Armory Mod. That's the shit.

would be interesting to see a local coop or multiplayer x4 game, only its 3 people managing the same city one could micromanage the military, another the trade, and the 3rd man could manage the building or all three of them could slit into sections and manage that way

Don't really like the Hex ones, but Galactic Civilisations and Masters of Orion 2 are really enjoyable.

I have weird thing where I rarely get past 75% and often not past 50% if any 4X game session because only the first two x's interests me, and the world gets too small for my taste. Endless Space was cool, and I didn't mind the lack of control you had in combat, so much as I really didn't like how choosing the right weapon and armor just felt like a random guess. I think the lack of replayability someone mentioned was due to how the galaxy was just a series of points, and lacks that sense of topology you have with mountains and oceans. I've also started playing Endless Legend recently. Liking it so far, but I feel like anomalies could be more interesting, and don't care for how you can research everything in an era right and away and the cost of old techs is continually increased do you cant get a bunch of easy ones out of the way first, or go back and quickly finish them up.

I miss space empires as a series, but I've never even come close to finishing a game of it.

[QUOTE=Xain777;46552799]I miss space empires as a series, but I've never even come close to finishing a game of it.[/QUOTE] I would love to see a revamped version or a new entry in the series. The last SE was such a buggy mess.

[QUOTE=Xain777;46552799]I miss space empires as a series, but I've never even come close to finishing a game of it.[/QUOTE] Space Empires 4 feels a lot like a newer Masters of Orion 2

Not enough love for Dominion series in here. Where else you can have Deep Ones fight Ghost Monkies, because Cthulhu decided to take over the world.

[QUOTE=gufu;46590959]Not enough love for Dominion series in here. Where else you can have Deep Ones fight Ghost Monkies, because Cthulhu decided to take over the world.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's seldom that you see any people talking about it at all. I bought the fourth one several months ago but haven't had the time to properly play it, it's just so deep.