The Elder Scrolls Megathread XVI: Loremaster Extraordinaire - Games

[QUOTE=Sharker;47585060]So what exactly is the point of W&C being $5 on steam if the same thing is free on the nexus?[/QUOTE] It's not the same, he literally waited to release a much less buggier version for the paywall.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;47588738]So, just like Bethesda DLC.[/QUOTE] Look at the bigger picture. It's STARTING with skyrim.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;47588738]So, just like Bethesda DLC.[/QUOTE] Dawnguard/Dragonborn were broke as fuck at first, but [I]work[/I] even on the console versions, even if they don't always work well. You can also install every Bethesda DLC from Bloodmoon/Tribunal onwards with the same knowledge. With the mod shop . . . not so much.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;47588754]Look at the bigger picture. It's STARTING with skyrim.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter where it starts, cancer is still cancer.

What are you, daft? At what point in that post do I imply I think this is a good idea? Yeah I just spent 7 pages and an entire day ranting and raving about how this is fucking retarded but one post telling someone not to write it off as "Just skyrim" means I support it. [editline]24th April 2015[/editline] Anyways, as I came back to this thread to post [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/XiBElPH.png[/img_thumb] The person who made the idles used in the fishing mod is NOT at all pleased.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;47588782]What are you, daft? At what point in that post do I imply I think this is a good idea? Yeah I just spent 7 pages and an entire day ranting and raving about how this is fucking retarded but one post telling someone not to write it off as "Just skyrim" means I support it.[/QUOTE] If you can point out where in my sentence I state you were in support of it, that'd be great. ...Exactly.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;47588782]The person who made the idles used in the fishing mod is NOT at all pleased.[/QUOTE] Fore, the SKSE team and the SkyUI team all have a lot to be angry about because their work is being used in a massive amount of mods and there's now a bunch of daft cunts trying to monetize scripts and content they don't own.

Also, apparently we DO have Bethesda to blame for the bad margin [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/1ap6ACn.png[/img_thumb]

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;47588854]Also, apparently we DO have Bethesda to blame for the bad margin [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/1ap6ACn.png[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] To the surprise of no one.

There's quite a discussion thread at the Nexus for its latest blog post on the subject of the Workshop. Related: the creator of SMIM considered uploading to the Workshop for $2, but decided instead to update the mod and announce that it will always be free. However, he also mentioned that he has received very little money from donations despite having over two million downloads. A lot of users have suggested a more visible/insistent donation system or even a Patreon system. I'm not as concerned about paying for mods as I am about its implications. 1. Developers being intentionally lazy because "modders will fix it and we'll make $$$$$ from the DLC that we don't even have to make." I have been hyped for Fallout 4 until now. 2. Modding being limited to a single platform (Steam Workshop). 3. Modding support for games being intentionally limited to prevent potentially complex and unstable mods that can drive off customers. 4. The shitstorm over copyrights and the legality of using other mods and tools like FNIS. 5. Modding no longer being an open environment where people create tutorials, tools, and resources for free. 6. "Want to use my mod? First you'll need this script extender for $5, and this armor pack for $3, and..." 7. Modding no longer being a hobby that the average user can try his/her hand at but instead something reserved for professionals looking for money. Hopefully, as long as free mods are still an option, this won't become true. 8. In-game microtransactions, but with mods instead. "DYING TOO OFTEN?" says a blurb in the corner of your game over screen. "TRY THIS LEVEL UP POTION, ONLY $4.99! BECAUSE WHO ACTUALLY LIKES PLAYING THE GAME, ANYWAY?" (only being half-serious with this one, even EA stopped that shit) 9. "My mod doesn't work anymore! FIX IT!" or "This mod broke my game and also I didn't bother mentioning the 100+ other mods I have installed! I PAID YOU, NOW FIX IT!" or "Because of a recent game update, this mod no longer functions. Sorry." or "The mod that this mod depends on was updated, and now this mod doesn't work." And most of all: 10. Valve and Bethesda totally ripping people off, especially the mod creators. This part is a stickler even for people who support the paywall. Extra: 11. Adult modding sites with paywalls becoming incorporated into the official paywall modding. Sex sells, but I don't know if game developers would go that far - the ESRB would be all over that.

The only winners here are Valve and possibly Bethesda, like we said before. But let us think of what will happen because of this. I predict at least one of the following will happen: 1. People will start abusing the system and upload shitty and unsupported "mods" that will purely rip off all customers and serve more money to Steam. 2. The community will either move to other mod sites like Nexusmods, which are still free, OR they might resort to "illegally" torrenting mods. Which, in itself, is really stupid. 3. Modders will (and should) react to this by withdrawing all their files from Steam and abandoning it completely as a distributor for Community-created items until a FAIR price system is implemented. (essentially going on a Mod-"Strike")

To be honest, very few mods really feel worth any money. When I think of donation or paying I think of total conversions or huge overhauls, not really graphical mods, item sets, etc. I'd probably donate for Skywind or something if it came out well, not SMIM or iNeed or any of those relatively small mods, regardless of quality.

I never thought I'd feel this way about anything, but I hope this stuff starts getting pirated just to show that it's a bad idea to charge money for it.

[QUOTE=rinoaff33;47588989]There's quite a discussion thread at the Nexus for its latest blog post on the subject of the Workshop. Related: the creator of SMIM considered uploading to the Workshop for $2, but decided instead to update the mod and announce that it will always be free. However, he also mentioned that he has received very little money from donations despite having over two million downloads. A lot of users have suggested a more visible/insistent donation system or even a Patreon system. I'm not as concerned about paying for mods as I am about its implications. 1. Developers being intentionally lazy because "modders will fix it and we'll make $$$$$ from the DLC that we don't even have to make." I have been hyped for Fallout 4 until now. 2. Modding being limited to a single platform (Steam Workshop). 3. Modding support for games being intentionally limited to prevent potentially complex and unstable mods that can drive off customers. (The Workshop is already like this, but not for this reason.) 4. The shitstorm over copyrights and the legality of using other mods and tools like FNIS. 5. Modding no longer being an open environment where people create tutorials, tools, and resources for free. 6. "Want to use my mod? First you'll need this script extender for $5, and this armor pack for $3 because I used a texture from it, and..." 7. Modding no longer being a hobby that the average user can try his/her hand at but instead something reserved for professionals looking for money. Hopefully, as long as free mods are still an option, this won't become true. 8. Sims 3-style microtransactions, but with mods instead. "DYING TOO OFTEN?" says a blurb in the corner of your game over screen. "TRY THIS LEVEL UP POTION, ONLY $4.99! BECAUSE WHO ACTUALLY LIKES PLAYING THE GAME, ANYWAY?" (only being half-serious with this one, even EA stopped that shit) 9. "My mod doesn't work anymore! FIX IT!" or "This mod broke my game and also I didn't bother mentioning the 100+ other mods I have installed! I PAID YOU, NOW FIX IT!" or "Because of a recent game update, this mod no longer functions. Sorry." And most of all: 10. Valve and Bethesda totally ripping people off, especially the mod creators. This part is a stickler even for people who support the paywall.[/QUOTE] This basically sums up my concerns. Personally I think modders, like any hobbyist, should be able to make a little cash on the side like any other hobbyists-- knitting, woodcarving, texturing, mapping, whatever --but there's literally no precedent for this kind of stuff with mods. Whoever dreamed this up doesn't seem to have realized that by not doing anything to establish workable rules, they're setting very very bad, consumer-unfriendly standards that are basically the exact opposite of lucrative (for content creators) or sustainable. Combine that with the fact that most mods frankly don't offer that much for any amount of money relative to how little actual games go for-- and what are gamers if not obsessed with efficiency? --and it's just too risky and unstable of an "economy" for me to see it lasting long in its current form.

I've gotten to the point in my life where I can understand modders wanting to charge for and profit from their mods. I get it. I have loans of my own that are giving me hives and earning money for something that normally is a hobby for me would be a dream. I'm not going to begrudge anyone for feeling they should get compensation for hours or weeks spent programming or modeling and texturing or voice acting or whatever. That stuff has value and sometimes the modding community takes it for granted. But that is [i][b]not[/b][/i] what is happening here. This is not something that exists to benefit modders. This is an exploitative system that only exists for Bethesda and Steam to milk as much money as they can from user generated content. If anyone actually earns any money from this system, it'll be a fluke that only the most popular and well exposed creators will be able to cash in on. This whole thing has made me feel so unbelievably angry and frustrated and honestly betrayed. [b]Edit:[/b] Also there's really nothing at all stopping people from paying for the mod, copying the downloaded files and then getting a refund, so really, what's the point of any of this anyways.

From the Nexus: [thumb]https://i.imgur.com/wW5j5yu.png?1[/thumb] Wow. [QUOTE]I am completely in favor of paid mods, and I have no issue with the very fair 25% revenue share. However, none of the mods I have released on the Nexus will become paid mods, exclusively or otherwise. Master of Disguise, Better Favor Jobs, and so on will remain free, and I will continue to provide updates and support when I have time. If I develop any paid mods, they will be new mods.[/QUOTE] Double wow. Have fun getting to $400 in sales. [B]EDIT:[/B] That image is apparently not as bad as it seems. Alternatives have been suggested for the removal, such as it being removed by a security measure because it was shortened and thus potentially malicious.

I am getting a feeling that Valve is merely testing the community's patience for blatant bullshittery Monetization of mods can't be real. This is a prank. Like seriously are they just wanting to bait people into court cases just so they have something to burn their money on?

[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;47589165]I am getting a feeling that Valve is merely testing the community's patience for blatant bullshittery Monetization of mods can't be real. This is a prank. Like seriously are they just wanting to bait people into court cases just so they have something to burn their money on?[/QUOTE] Valve has been doing it with their own games for some time now. People pay for microtransactions and it makes $$$, so why wouldn't they try to make even more $$$$$? Best of all, they don't even have to put in the effort to make money. It's like collecting royalties from an artist because you sold him an easel (but not the painting supplies, which are provided by others). And then the artist is only paid if his work is a masterpiece, and even then he gets just 25% of the cut.

I think nexus should try to take advantage of the situation, being more freely when it comes to donations for their modders, so you could more easily donate to your favorite modders, yet having free content for everyone to love, Nexus is still by far dominant when it comes to modding, and it would be hard to beat (thank god).

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/V0ICmGW.png[/IMG] Good, hoprfully we see this on everything [quote=Some guy on reddit]If this announcement has done anything, it's made me want to donate to the free mod authors more.[/quote] agreed, especially since i've ALREADY donated to some amazing mods in the past

Jesus fucking christ. I wake and up see 400 new posts. Expected TES VI to have been announced. But to see this instead, holy shit what the fuck are they thinking especially at a 25% rate.

[t]https://a.pomf.se/pqlwso.png[/t] I did this, why did I do this. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=430972145[/url]

[QUOTE=doommarine23;47588142]Thank you, I appreciate it. I'm not the most skilled content creator but I'm using that to my advantage and making use of mostly base models and textures to fit the game's detail and art-style better. I hope when this pack and several others are finished, that my efforts will ease the sting of this whole ordeal for content users.[/QUOTE] Having extended sets of weapons and armor based off of the vanilla assets that isn't immersive armor or weapons that just cobble together random shit into horrible monstrosities of "lore friendly equipment" is very welcome.

Valve removed the comments. If this gets approved, I have no idea what I'm going to do. Now they are back.

I'm not totally opposed to paid for mods but in it's current implementation, it's fucking ridiculous. Boogie puts it well but he's being stupid about this "dawn of a new era of games modding" crap. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du7oIjBMY3Q[/media]

[IMG]https://a.pomf.se/fepauy.png[/IMG] Saw this coming :v:

I just realised what this whole thing reminds me of [t]http://pics.mobygames.com/images/covers/large/972067336-00.jpg[/t] "Over 900 new quests, items, and followers"

how the fuck did they think this was a good idea why would anyone do this they not only made a mistake that's astronomical, they forever split the modding community in half

no no that's wrong I have lots of fun with skyrim full conversions and even medium/small mods but none of them are at the quality that would even make me think to pay a dime for them and I'm sure I'm not alone with that this is a mess and honestly something that should have been an april fools joke [editline]24th April 2015[/editline] oh my fucking god so many mods have pre-requisited mods and shit like what are they going to start charging 1 dollar for SKSE or what fuck this, I'll stop supporting steam as much as I can now, they're gone too far down

I'm not supporting it because it's already torn apart the community and I'm worried that it could lead to non-workshop mods getting locked out in TES 6/Fallout 4.