Paradox Interactive Thread: V2 The cartographers nightmare. - Games

So whats this whole colonial dominions thing in Heart of Darkness?

[QUOTE=kamikaze470;46475897]the who what where now bug[/QUOTE] If you click on the province inside the nation of Guge the game crashes and corrupts your save data. guge is a tibetan opm.

Thumb your images god damn dude.

Clean your borders too [sp]t. kojak[/sp] [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] Is it possible to form Malaya as Greece? Wondering because I was going to do an islamic achaea-greece-malaya run

Is it too hard to ask for a Paradox game where there is no objective? I hate how getting bigger in size seems to be an admirable thing in Paradox games, it's not supposed to be like that, you know?

I'm playing Morocco and I noticed that I can't protectoratize SubSaharan countries, but vassalize them. Was this changed with AoW or has it been like this for a while (I only just got back into EU4, haven't played since Wealth of Nations came out)

[QUOTE=kurgan;46491228]I'm playing Morocco and I noticed that I can't protectoratize SubSaharan countries, but vassalize them. Was this changed with AoW or has it been like this for a while (I only just got back into EU4, haven't played since Wealth of Nations came out)[/QUOTE]What does the tooltip say when you hover over it, you need to be westernized I believe.

[QUOTE=kamikaze470;46491345]What does the tooltip say when you hover over it, you need to be westernized I believe.[/QUOTE] I thought it was based on pure tech malus difference?

I can't figure out how to build factories in Darkest Hour, they say there is a button on the left side of the screen but I can't find it :(

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46494530]You know, I hate this quality of eu4. It is strict western supremacist. I mean , in VeF you can protect your culture, and "westernize" as in, disable the tech penalties. It is called "modernization" there, and I think that is not simply an "awesome" feature, it is kinda an "essential" feature, the way it should have been.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'd prefer protectorates to be based on difference in tech levels rather than tech groupings. Ditto for things like trade companies. [editline]15th November 2014[/editline] I do think it should keep as "Westernization" though, because the kind of lurching, tumultuous change it represents only happened a handful of times, and was always aimed at copying the West.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46494869]You know, at 1444 start date, or 1310 for VeF, West wassn't actually that superior to East.[/QUOTE] Depends on what part tbh. The economic, political, and social institutions that define the west began to appear around that time (in addition to quite a few inventions) that ultimately gave it a great deal of clout in later centuries. There are massive differences between the West in 1400 and 1800, but there are much less in Asia between 1400 and 1800 (with the Russians, Ottomans, Mughals, Maratha, and Qing still being effective subsistence agrarian economies that had collapsed within the century). It's difficult to see one of those countries modernizing faster than the West, excluding possibly China.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46495857]West and East, in terms of technology, were similar until the Industrial Revolution.[/quote] In terms of military technology and organisation, the west had a clear lead from about 1600 onwards. Matchlock muskets were still being used in Mughal India when the British started conquering it, while modern frigates and trading vessels designed in the west were besting Ottoman and Chinese ship designs by the 17th century in both trade and military. Already by the 17th century, the Ottoman military was pretty obsolete. [quote]From 1500s to 1700s, the strength of the West came from trade, which was fueled by excessive wealth of the colonies and imperial lands, aka Americas and Africa, also from the discovery of the Cape.[/quote] Actually the industrial revolution was largely self-funding. Most of the capital which funded industrialization was generated usually domestically, and the colonies were unnecessary. The renaissance itself is pretty overstated too, given that it was a bunch of Italians translating lost Greek poetry. At the same time, the Germans were up to the more important task of building printing presses, which were fuelled by a demand for cheap bibles rather than colonial ambitions. [quote]Might be kinda a long reach but, if Easterners had this wealth instead of Westerners, say Omani tradesmen were barred from India somehow, and they went south instead. They discover Latin America etc. which is quite possible in EU4 context. Then the strength would be by the Easterners, and they would have topped Westerners, even maybe they would be the constructors of the Industrial REv, since that Rev was mostly a invention-out-of-necessity type of thing.[/QUOTE] Nah. Oman would have never industrialized under such conditions. The west industrialized first because of a particularly unique set of cultural and social institutions in conjunction to ready access to waterways, good stocks of timber, cheap, high quality coal, and metal ores. The only country that came close was China, which developed textile spinning machinery, utilized coal on a wide scale, and had widespread markets. Their main impediment was arrogance and widespread conservatism in pretty much every area.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46496177]Modern ships came out of necessities, as in, oceanfaringness and the fact that all wealth was at sea.[/quote] This is partly true, but remember that massive bulk trade was ongoing in the Indian ocean for millennia, so if trade determines ship design, then surely it would have developed there first? [quote]I don't quite think most of the capital was domestic. Sure it was domestic as in British capital, but I assume it mostly came from overseas trading, am I wrong?[/quote] When it comes to the development of the iron industry for instance, most of it was at home. The iron foundries of Coalbrookdale didn't have any investment from the people who made money from the colonies, they were separate industries. Same with other innovations. The development of railways happened in areas with coal and iron mining that needed to move bulk goods to cities and foundries, and much of this demand and investment was domestic rather than colonial. Most colonial investments went unsurprisingly back overseas, the navy, etc rather than pottery or steam engines and mining. [quote]I thought German printing presses was among Renaissance. And also I thought Renaissance included various scientific advancements such as Kopernik's or Galilee's.[/quote] Generally the renaissance is taken to be a cultural movement in late medieval and early modern Italy. It didn't really tie into wider social and economic movements. It depends largely on how you term it, but I don't really see the art and literature of Italy in the 15th century as being necessary to the development of science or the industrial revolution. [quote]Oman was just an example. It quite seems Industrial Rev would be hard to happen in the East. I watched a documentary about natural world history mad by BBC, ther it cited how Chinese could have developed Industrial techniques if coal was more easily accessible, as in Briatin. You know, most coal in China in that era was gathered from Shanxi and other mountainous/distant regions like that.[/quote] They could have developed railways or plateways, dug more canals, used shipping, etc. Fact is that a lot of the time many of these ideas didn't really occur to the Chinese, and some ideas were sidelined by the bureaucracy (shipping grain by the coast to reduce costs for instance). [quote]Coal is more easily found in Russia, Ukraine and India too, so these might be alternatives to Britain. How about these?[/QUOTE] Those places had their own cultural problems, mostly relating to political and social ones. Russia has had for a long time no real native "capitalism" to speak of. The aristocracy was subservient to the monarchy, it survived on the state. It never invested into land or developed the economy. The vast bulk of peasants had no means of buying or selling goods and were tied to the land. There was no "middle class" to speak of, but rather a collection of priests, clerks, and government officials who worked for the state. Most towns and cities in Russia were founded based on military or administrative, rather than economic needs, so most of them were poorly situated to exploit natural resources or develop on their own.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46494869]You know, at 1444 start date, or 1310 for VeF, West wassn't actually that superior to East. So we could have alternate histories where East modernized faster than West, and West trying to imitate the East. In VeF, nobody imitates anyone, eveybody modernizes gradually, West modernizes faster/ starts slightly more advanced on modernization ladder.[/quote] 14th century I could maybe grant you, but by the 15th century, Europe was already pulling ahead. For example, Western Europe had the highest per capita income in the world. Yes, the Chinese were initially more technologically advanced in some respects (gunpowder), and certainly more integrated as a society, but they were chronically inward-looking and decadent. They didn't care about the rest of the world (Zheng He's voyages weren't exploration, they were an ostentatious tour of well-known sea routes in order to collect tribute. He didn't sail a single nautical mile others hadn't sailed before). [editline]15th November 2014[/editline] Examples of the West being surprised by Eastern (especially military) technological advancements (e.g. rockets in India) are interesting precisely because they're exceptions to the general rule of the West being dominant. And even in the case of rockets (or indeed gunpowder) it was the West that adopted them and made them orders of magnitude more effective.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46496177]I don't quite think most of the capital was domestic. Sure it was domestic as in British capital, but I assume it mostly came from overseas trading, am I wrong?[/quote] Overseas trading certainly helped, but in the absolute worst case scenario where there are no colonies, an industrial revolution would have been delayed by at most a few decades. In many cases, colonies were a net drain (the British would have been better off if they had simply given the West Indies away, for example). [quote]Oman was just an example. It quite seems Industrial Rev would be hard to happen in the East. I watched a documentary about natural world history mad by BBC, ther it cited how Chinese could have developed Industrial techniques if coal was more easily accessible, as in Briatin. You know, most coal in China in that era was gathered from Shanxi and other mountainous/distant regions like that.[/quote] Coal wasn't really the limiting factor, it was more the ratio between the cost of capital and the cost of labour. Western Europe (especially Britain) has always had relatively cheap capital and relatively expensive labour, while in China it's the opposite. You don't need labour-saving machinery if you've got cheap labour coming out of your ears! Absolute worst case scenario where there is no coal [I]at all[/I] in Western Europe - there could still have been a greatly-delayed but still strong industrial revolution on the back of Baltic timber.

Has anyone playing Charlemagne seen the abbassid empire break down? It's 864 and it's still being carried on by its sheer momentum.

[QUOTE=StickyWicket;46500283]Has anyone playing Charlemagne seen the abbassid empire break down? It's 864 and it's still being carried on by its sheer momentum.[/QUOTE] It doesn't.

Would anyone mind if once in a while I posted the progress of the mod and gave a little snippet about the world's history?

[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46500738]Would anyone mind if once in a while I posted the progress of the mod and gave a little snippet about the world's history?[/QUOTE] As long as you post some pictures and a map, I do wanna see more AAR stuff in here.

What the fuck. I became incapable from fucking too many whores because I got depressed that my wife died.

[QUOTE=Lone Wolf807;46500861]What the fuck. I became incapable from fucking too many whores because I got depressed that my wife died.[/QUOTE] Go to intrigue and click commit suicide in the decisions option.

[QUOTE]Those places had their own cultural problems, mostly relating to political and social ones. Russia has had for a long time no real native "capitalism" to speak of. The aristocracy was subservient to the monarchy, it survived on the state. It never invested into land or developed the economy. The vast bulk of peasants had no means of buying or selling goods and were tied to the land. There was no "middle class" to speak of, but rather a collection of priests, clerks, and government officials who worked for the state. Most towns and cities in Russia were founded based on military or administrative, rather than economic needs, so most of them were poorly situated to exploit natural resources or develop on their own. [/QUOTE] Ah, I see the Hobswabm in you. Now really, what set apart Europe from the rest, was the institutions and how it developed a craving for discovery. Wallerstein calls this going from imperial-world to economic-world. No other region in the world was so determined to "rule" or "conquer" nature through reason. China would have never, provided the only factor that stays the same is the mindset, developed capitalism/ind rev. due to how they saw and organized things. They canceled expeditions and saw China as the whole world. So, once China was under their control, there was no further motivation to expand or develop, contrary to, for example, Portugal. Plus, their system kept being feudal for centuries and never pushed towards full centralization.

[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33594635/ss%2B%282014-10-17%2Bat%2B10.13.38%29.jpg[/t] Nightmare mode :v:

[QUOTE=Lone Wolf807;46501451][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33594635/ss%2B(2014-10-17%2Bat%2B10.13.38).jpg[/t] Nightmare mode :v:[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHgxOXEQaFU[/media]

I find it hilarious how Nazi Germany can technically release and/or puppet Israel from Great Britain.

Didn't they want to deport all jews to madascgar? Techinally that would have been 'Isreal' in a way. of course it was pretty impossible and another nazi mega idea

[QUOTE=Lone Wolf807;46501451][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33594635/ss%2B%282014-10-17%2Bat%2B10.13.38%29.jpg[/t] Nightmare mode :v:[/QUOTE] There is no way this Israel.

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;46502424]Didn't they want to deport all jews to madascgar? Techinally that would have been 'Isreal' in a way. of course it was pretty impossible and another nazi mega idea[/QUOTE] Funny you mention that, I had added Israel in modern day Madagascar in the of the Nazi-US coldwar mod I was working on :v: Its definitely feasible had Italy been able to hold the Suez, Germany was planning on getting its colonies back anyway so an expansion into Africa isn't to far-fetched. [editline]16th November 2014[/editline] Also the new BlackICE is out, woo!

Here is a link to BlackICE [url]http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?817187-The-New-Version[/url] Mirror 2 seems to be the fastest.

[QUOTE=Kentz;46470573]playing as any large nation from the start of the game in mp makes you a dick tbh never settle less than an opm[/QUOTE]but being a dick is what makes mp, cus then you get WW1s everywhere! [t]http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/538506469047017750/4F4D4A8B48E30436AEB0A94859BB7CA5EEDC0BB6/[/t]