WAR THUNDER Mk5 -- Tanks open beta test now! - Games

[QUOTE=Bowser_nl;44912404]Not sure if this has been posted before but its quite interesting if you don't exactly know how the ammotypes work [img]http://s15.postimg.org/ltib8n3p7/INFOGRAMED.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] The question is how well does warthunder simulate these? Do HEAT and other similar preforming rounds work on the spaced armor variants of the pz3 and 4?

[QUOTE=JDB;44913157]The question is how well does warthunder simulate these? Do HEAT and other similar preforming rounds work on the spaced armor variants of the pz3 and 4?[/QUOTE] There's almost no reason to use HEAT outside the 75mm L/24s. Not only does HEAT seemingly do piss damage on some guns that it shouldn't, basically no guns outside that L/24 Stubby ever have HEAT rounds with more penetration than any other non-HE round at any distance.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44912763]You are wrong. Blunt nosed shells are not APC, although they do PERFORM similarly, it's not the same technology. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7W3AaCf.jpg[/IMG] On this picture is a typical AP - AP[B]C[/B] (just "[B]cap[/B]") - AP[B]C[/B][I]BC[/I] (both "[B]cap[/B]" and "[I]ballistic cap[/I]") progression, and the penetrator itself is tapered. It makes no sense to give a blunt shell a normalization cap because the shell shape itself helps it normalize, so the "blunt" shells shouldn't be called APC, they can be APBC ie get the aerodynamic cap. I still don't know if tapered shell with ballistic cap or blunt shell performed better, tho. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] Both shells you posted are strictly speaking "just AP".[/quote] I forgot to add "ballistic cap" to the name indeed, but what I said is still valid. The shells I posted are different. BR-471B is APBC-HE, blunt nose ballistic cap and BR-471 is simple APHE, sharp nose. BR-471B shown here has its ballistic cap removed

[QUOTE=Azaz3l;44913715]I forgot to add "ballistic cap" to the name indeed, but what I said is still valid. The shells I posted are different. BR-471B is APBC-HE, blunt nose ballistic cap and BR-471 is simple APHE, sharp nose. BR-471B shown here has its ballistic cap removed[/QUOTE] Well yeah but read what the guide is saying. He's not saying ballistic cap is helping to normalize, he's saying the "just cap" is, which is true. The guide is correct.

HEAT ammo is weird. My friends Panzer IV F1 one shot three tanks in a row yesterday (one of which was a KV) while I can fire several 122mm HEAT rounds from the SU-122 and not damage a single module or crewman. I switched to HE which is also insanely random but seems more useful generally. I just wish I could figure out how I can penetrate the front of a tanks body or it's turret and not hit [I]anything [/I]while my enemies can seemingly hit any part of my tank and knock out up to 4 things at once. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] Also World of Tanks made me expect the SU-122 to have decent armor :v:

[QUOTE=Raidyr;44914662]HEAT ammo is weird. My friends Panzer IV F1 one shot three tanks in a row yesterday (one of which was a KV) while I can fire several 122mm HEAT rounds from the SU-122 and not damage a single module or crewman. I switched to HE which is also insanely random but seems more useful generally. Also World of Tanks made me expect the SU-122 to have decent armor :v:[/QUOTE] If SU-122 armor feels indecent then I would recommend you to take it VEEERY SLOWLY into the following eras, because aside of few exceptions like SU-85M and IS-4, soviet armor-relative-to-era goes only down after SU-122.

well i thought getting upgraded crew and "adjustment of fire" would fix the god awful accuracy issues beyond 1km. also feels like these shells have nowhere near the trajectory they should with dropping like dead babies with a parachute. theres just no hope if they are going to have a rng cone of fire worse than wot.

[QUOTE=JDB;44915559]well i thought getting upgraded crew and "adjustment of fire" would fix the god awful accuracy issues beyond 1km. also feels like these shells have nowhere near the trajectory they should with dropping like dead babies with a parachute. theres just no hope if they are going to have a rng cone of fire worse than wot.[/QUOTE] If you can read German, like apparently every single English speaking person in this thread: [url]http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38025[/url] then you can tell for yourself if it's realistic or not. Dispersion is a real thing believe it or not. Whether or not it's a suitable amount is a good question. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] I mean right off the bat the gun are 50000% more skill based at short-intermediate ranges, especially if you can wizard your way around firing on the move, which is also a skill in itself, so it's really not an "rng cone of fire worse than wot" by any possible stretch of the imagination.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;44915660]If you can read German, like apparently every single English speaking person in this thread: [url]http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38025[/url] then you can tell for yourself if it's realistic or not. Dispersion is a real thing believe it or not. Whether or not it's a suitable amount is a good question. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] I mean right off the bat the gun are 50000% more skill based at short-intermediate ranges, especially if you can wizard your way around firing on the move, which is also a skill in itself, so it's really not an "rng cone of fire worse than wot" by any possible stretch of the imagination.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AcN3I9j.jpg[/IMG] Well that didn't work Ah yes it does, Just had to get closer. Hooray technology [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/E6AM8hb.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Mbbird;44915660] I mean right off the bat the gun are 50000% more skill based at short-intermediate ranges, especially if you can wizard your way around firing on the move, which is also a skill in itself, so it's really not an "rng cone of fire worse than wot" by any possible stretch of the imagination.[/QUOTE] I remember that one time a shell left my gun at a 90 degree angle almost hitting an ally, and leaving me to die to an enemy KV-2. Good times. In WoT, ofcourse.

haha what the first Panther, in tier 3, has a Battle Rating of 5. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] what's the point [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] im like fully 100% sure this game uses CTDs as a balancing tool

[QUOTE=Mbbird;44916193]haha what the first Panther, in tier 3, has a Battle Rating of 5. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] what's the point [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] im like fully 100% sure this game uses CTDs as a balancing tool[/QUOTE] I am not sure what point are you trying to make here? It's the best vehicle in the entire 3rd era, mostly competing with PzIV L/70 with SU-85M being a distant 3rd.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44916406]I am not sure what point are you trying to make here? It's the best vehicle in the entire 3rd era, mostly competing with PzIV L/70 with SU-85M being a distant 3rd.[/QUOTE] I don't understand the BR system at all.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;44916193]haha what the first Panther, in tier 3, has a Battle Rating of 5. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] what's the point [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] im like fully 100% sure this game uses CTDs as a balancing tool[/QUOTE] Russian developers are just the worst game balancers.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;44916436]I don't understand the BR system at all.[/QUOTE] Just forget Eras exist. They have literally zero effect on matchmaking (offically confirmed). BR is the only thing that matters when determining matchups of vehicles. The maximal spread between vehicles in one match is 1.3, apparently not counting that player who does REALLY REALLY badly gets a handicap which lets them drop in rank. Generally 80% of vehicles in one match are within 0.3 BR with each other (partially because some ranks are just completely underepresented). Typical Panther match has all of Tigers (5.0) Panthers (5.0), PzIV/70s (4.7), T-34-85(D-5)s (4.7), T-34-85 (5.0) [here notice that T-34-85 is actually Era 4 but has era 3 rank because it's literally almost exactly same as T-34-85(D-5) and is only in era 4 as a filler], IS-1s (4.7), SU-152s (4.7) and SU-85Ms (5.0). Then there are unlucky T-34-57 mod.43s (4.3) and PzIV whatevers (4.3). That's all. Nothing else really ever makes it to battles of that rank. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] Oh, and forget that the decimals don't add up, that, as far as I understand, serves no purpose whatsoever. The ranks go 1.0 1.3 1.7 2.0 2.3 2.7 3.0... and there's no vehicles, aircraft nor tanks, that would deviate from this. They could have kept the ranks numbered 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all the way to 26 and it would be the exact same thing, I have no idea what purpose do these decimals serve, maybe just to confuse people so they would bitch about rebalancing a bit less.

gaijin needs to lay it fuckin cool with the reload time debuffs.

I almost feel bad for anybody who bought the premium Jagdpanther, the only thing it has going for it is speed since the armor feels much worse than the Jagdpanzer IV before it [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] Pretty much instant transmission knockouts guaranteed as well the second you get shot

[QUOTE=Valdor;44917026]I almost feel bad for anybody who bought the premium Jagdpanther, the only thing it has going for it is speed since the armor feels much worse than the Jagdpanzer IV before it [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] Pretty much instant transmission knockouts guaranteed as well the second you get shot[/QUOTE] What guns are you getting shot at with? I have played SU-100 some and I have yet to do ANY damage to Jagdpanther frontally. Truth to be told, I haven't made it past the stock ammo yet, but it's going slowly since I shoot at something, fail to penetrate, and get oneshotted.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;44917148]What guns are you getting shot at with? I have played SU-100 some and I have yet to do ANY damage to Jagdpanther frontally. Truth to be told, I haven't made it past the stock ammo yet, but it's going slowly since I shoot at something, fail to penetrate, and get oneshotted.[/QUOTE] SU-100 is the main threat, pretty much the killer of all nazi tanks. I don't own one but they sure as hell have no problem penetrating any of the tanks they fight. I'm also going to need somebody to explain the retarded logic in giving the SU-100 two lives and the Jagdpanther only one. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] T-44s usually don't pen if they're on level ground but considering how awful the maps are, chances are they will have plenty of chances to be above you. IS-2 is the wildcard that either kills your gun and transmission in a single hit or bounces.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;44917010]gaijin needs to lay it fuckin cool with the reload time debuffs.[/QUOTE] I'm not the only one? The first couple shells are reloaded nice and fast and then it goes to "Hans would you please reload the 50mm? Nein siegfried i don't feel like it."

[QUOTE=Valdor;44917218]SU-100 is the main threat, pretty much the killer of all nazi tanks. I don't own one but they sure as hell have no problem penetrating any of the tanks they fight. I'm also going to need somebody to explain the retarded logic in giving the SU-100 two lives and the Jagdpanther only one. [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] T-44s usually don't pen if they're on level ground but considering how awful the maps are, chances are they will have plenty of chances to be above you. IS-2 is the wildcard that either kills your gun and transmission in a single hit or bounces.[/QUOTE] Okay I went to check and actually the final APCBC the soviet 100mm unlocks has pretty much exact same performance as the German 88mm APCBC (while being heavier and so I presume promising harder kick). I just gonna presume it's simply the stock round being wank. The 122mm wildcardness probably depends solely on if the gunner feels like an asshole and loads HE to cripple you or tries APHE to kill you :v: [editline]26th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Angua;44917334]I'm not the only one? The first couple shells are reloaded nice and fast and then it goes to "Hans would you please reload the 50mm? Nein siegfried i don't feel like it."[/QUOTE] Supposedly there's simply 20%+- randomization on each reload. They revelead that when they admitted it probably shouldn't apply on autocannons and that they shouldn't go DAP DAP DAP DADAP DAP DAP.. DAP .. DAP DAPDAPDAP

So, are the the caps and ballistic caps actually modeled right? If so, I assume there's zero reason to use a APHE round with 120mm pen if the APHEBC one has 115mm pen?

[QUOTE=Doom14;44917402]So, are the the caps and ballistic caps actually modeled right? If so, I assume there's zero reason to use a APHE round with 120mm pen if the APHEBC one has 115mm pen?[/QUOTE] Yup. If you are talking about the 85mm, the K type (noncapped) round has also smaller HE filler. The K round AFAIK only existed to battle unsloped a tiger armor but I don't think it is really worth the hassle. Try to carry a few in case of long range snipe out with a tiger but outside of that stick to the basic shell, it's the best 85mm round.

[t]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/486699290543883630/E0A456970FB0A562BDC0792A7EF498CCD06F5397/[/t] This is odd since I was playing ground forces, unless the StuG is a turret I did not deserve this decal. [sp]but I don't mind because its a decal I've wanted for a wile now[/sp]

whats up with the tier 4 russian TDs being huge shell holes, shots go in and maybe kill the commander or knock out something useless, that or you get a bunch of 'hit' markers

Five minute repair time on a blown barrel despite all of my crew being alive, does it increase the time the higher tier you go or something? Gaijin really fucked this aspect of the game up, I don't know what fucking retard thought anybody would enjoy having to either leave the match or wait 30 minutes for their tank to be operational because somebody shot their barrel once.

[QUOTE=Valdor;44918164]Five minute repair time on a blown barrel despite all of my crew being alive, does it increase the time the higher tier you go or something? Gaijin really fucked this aspect of the game up, I don't know what fucking retard thought anybody would enjoy having to either leave the match or wait 30 minutes for their tank to be operational because somebody shot their barrel once.[/QUOTE] For me the whole replacing a barrel in a field makes no sense, so I think it is kind of a short amount of time to have to wait for something like that to be possible.

[QUOTE=Skwee;44918184]For me the whole replacing a barrel in a field makes no sense, so I think it is kind of a short amount of time to have to wait for something like that to be possible.[/QUOTE] It's quicker to leave the match and find a new battle than it is to wait for some of the repair times, it's also a game so...

[QUOTE=Valdor;44918250]It's quicker to leave the match and find a new battle than it is to wait for some of the repair times, it's also a game so...[/QUOTE] it's also a game, so do what you just said?

[QUOTE=Skwee;44918184]For me the whole replacing a barrel in a field makes no sense, so I think it is kind of a short amount of time to have to wait for something like that to be possible.[/QUOTE] IMHO, you should be able to do serious repairs AND reload if you RTB as you can with aircraft.