[QUOTE=Tuskin;47801908]Doom was gory though. Not gory by today's standards, but things exploded. You could also punch them and they would explode.[/QUOTE]
They wouldn't explode all the time and they certainly didn't remove the player's control. I fear that DOOM 2015 is going to make everything berserk mode all the time, which ruins that satisfaction of going through and finding secret powerups.
Enemies in classic Doom exploded all the time, though.
Arachnotrons burst like melons, chaingun dudes would fall apart into bloody chunks, lost souls, pain elementals, the spider mastermind and the cyberdemon [I]literally[/I] exploded.
I understand not wanting fatalities or enemies screaming in agony (I don't want it in Doom 4 anyway, too much of a gimmick), but I really, honestly can't understand people being against incredible amounts of gore in Doom. The mutilated, strung up corpses and enemies blowing apart were pretty much the goriest things of the time and there was a hell of a controversy over Doom because of it.
Whether people like it or not, gore has played a major part in Doom's atmosphere, from it being on the enemies to being in the scenery, and this will likely continue.
[QUOTE=Sepia Gnome;47802023]They wouldn't explode all the time and they certainly didn't remove the player's control. I fear that DOOM 2015 is going to make everything berserk mode all the time, which ruins that satisfaction of going through and finding secret powerups.[/QUOTE]
Factoring in that takedowns are optional and probably wont take anywhere near as long as Brutal Doom takedowns.
People need to calm down and consider the idea that they will have ironed out the balance not to mention the gameplay preview was a preview wherein a lot of devs use console commands. So it could require Berserk power up.
Point being don't just expect the absolute worst all the time.
If they could split the difference that'd be great, I liked the PDAs and computers in Doom 3, giving plot details and hints, but I feel like everything got heavier and slower trying to make it scary.
The gore, I have absolutely no problem with. Doom IS a gory game, even without mods.
The flipping people off and taunting bit is just really childish and kinda dumb though and doesn't really belong, imo. Fatalities I don't mind, but in my experience with BD, they get boring after a few playthroughs. Blasting away demons never gets old.
The preview details did make it seem a bit more arcadish but a lot of people have said it's got a Doom 3-esque feel to it.
There's this thing called pacing that exists too.
[QUOTE=SuperPlamz;47802101]Enemies in classic Doom exploded all the time, though.
Arachnotrons burst like melons, chaingun dudes would fall apart into bloody chunks, lost souls, pain elementals, the spider mastermind and the cyberdemon [I]literally[/I] exploded.
I understand not wanting fatalities or enemies screaming in agony (I don't want it in Doom 4 anyway, too much of a gimmick), but I really, honestly can't understand people being against incredible amounts of gore in Doom. The mutilated, strung up corpses and enemies blowing apart were pretty much the goriest things of the time and there was a hell of a controversy over Doom because of it.[/QUOTE]
People are surprised to find that the interpretation they've constructed to fill in the blanks of a vague universe with a vague story and a vague aesthetic don't gel with everybody else's. I see the Doom universe as a Evil Dead in space. I honestly don't give a fuck how gory it gets, it won't ever be too gory because that's what Doom is to me. To someone else though, it might be more like Aliens and unable to be as subdued as Aliens because of the technology of the time or some shit like that. There's no right or wrong.
I don't even know why this is the subject of debate, unless you truly [I]truly[/I] believe you know something that the original creators didn't.
doom was pretty gory for its time, and pretty atmospheric too. if they capture that again that'd be swell
Also MD5s were limited in terms of fucking with the skeleton. No bone scaling or skinned object switching and whatnot. If you wanted to make dismemberment in Doom 3, you'd have to make a variant (full model with limb removed with its own skeleton and animations) for every possible combination of taking a limb off, or just have it so you can only dismember one thing and the model swaps and there's no further thing that can be done (wolfenstein TNO, l4d1, lame imo)
For doom 3 it was either all or nothing, so they went with semi old fashioned gibs instead of dismemberment.
Unless there's some workaround I'm not aware of :s
I think the problem is that I think I might said this before here, but I know I've said it to a friend, but Doom is really just a vague game when you really think about it.
Everyone here is throwing around buzz-terms, typically from their own experience. [I]Gory, Atmospheric, Horror, Scary, Rip-N-Tear[/I]
Doom was a game made by like 8 dudes in their 20s that just wanted to make a badass game, the reality is that I think just by its very haphazard nature and low budget creation, its a hodge podge and that what it will always be. I won't even touch on one or two people like Tom Hall wanted a more story focus, which Carmack and Romero completely denied.
Its not surprising that it feels different to all of us, especially when the game never really told you the way you were meant to be feeling or what speed to play it at.
But you know? I honestly do think the people who want it to be gory non-stop action are honestly on the right track, Doom was always kind of meant to be this badass cool game with most if not all of its music ripped out from metal bands, people like Romero were focused on abstract styled/shaped levels that were just vague caracitures of what they were, as long as they were fun.
Horror is a fluff, it is the icing on the cake, atmosphere is also just sprinkles, the real cake of Doom has been non-stop high speed frag action. But honestly, because of its age, the amount of custom engines, mod, the vague form it exists in that allows you to play in anyway or form, its hard to find what it really is, and I can't blame anyone for thinking otherwise.
Its not some well crafted beautiful work, it was made by a bunch of 20 year old idiots like us, this riff-raff of stupid internet dwelling furry jerk-offs here, could make doom if we had the skill and dedication back then. Think of all the badass stupid shit you wanted to do and that is really what Doom is.
So my point is, is that yeah; it was meant to be this badass high speed gore shooter, and I expect Doom 4 to be a return to that
[QUOTE=doommarine23;47802397]I
[B]Its not some well crafted beautiful work[/B], it was made by a bunch of 20 year old idiots like us, this riff-raff of stupid internet dwelling furry jerk-offs here, could make doom if we had the skill and dedication back then. Think of all the badass stupid shit you wanted to do and that is really what Doom is.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that. Doom's gameplay and map design were pretty well thought out and carefully balanced, every monster served a role and did it WELL, all of the weapons served their purpose (except for the pistol, fuck that thing), and it's obvious the team put a lot of thought and passion into their work.
Hell, monster infighting is still amazing to watch to this day, and I'm pissed that games simply don't do it anymore
Archviles are one of the best monsters. It switches up the gameplay from offensive to defensive so fast, it makes a very interesting encounter
[QUOTE=Dracon;47801788]I kind of want it to be a mix of both. I loved the more horror dark atmosphere of doom3 and doom 64, but I also love the gameplay of the original dooms (and doom64). So, doom64 is what I want.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, an HD Doom 64 is my ideal. I'd like to keep the horror elements of 3 and 64, with everything being dark and moody. As far as gameplay goes I was fine with how Doom 3 played, so I wouldn't mind a more refined version of that, or maybe something that felt similar to the new Wolfenstein's gunplay. I'm gonna miss reloading, though. Guns that can shoot forever feels so archaic to me now.
[QUOTE=Myth Alex;47801220][B]How do you guys want the new DOOM to be?[/B]
> classic-style, like Doom 1 and 2?
OR
> horror-style, like Doom 3?
Honestly, I would want it to be horror :dance: And keep the classic-style only for multiplayer / co-op.[/QUOTE]
I think it should have the classic game play with a mix of Doom 3 horror.
[editline]25th May 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xubs;47802781]all of the enemies in Doom 2 are perfect, Doom 1's enemies are good but Doom 2 just added all the archetypes to make some[I]incredibly[/I] interesting combat encounters. It's a true sequel in that it's a straight improvement over the original, but I still think Doom 2 has some bad direction in a few of its maps here and there that Doom 1 did not have.
It's the situation where, if we're talking which game I'd rather play [I]if we include megawads,[/I] oh-so-obviously I will pick Doom 2, it's just a better and fuller version of Doom 1, but if we're talking which game with their base maps only, I'd probably rather play Doom 1, honestly. Though if we include Final Doom in there as well then I'd rather play Plutonia than either of those.[/QUOTE]
Doom 2 was awesome except alot of the maps are quite gimmicky.
So long as we get atmosphere without overly-relying on extremely dark lighting, jump scares, and imp doors galore, I don't mind.
Doom 3 horror, Doom 2 gameplay and Doom 1 lighting and atmosphere :v:
[QUOTE=Xubs;47802730]Doom 2's map design is sometimes slapdash, but I think the new monsters added in Doom 2 are all better and more interesting enemies than any of the ones first featured in Doom 1. (all the enemies in Doom 1 either shoot bullets, shoot a projectile of varying speeds, or melee, while Doom 2 has some really off-the-wall attacks and behavior like archviles and pain elementals)
I don't think either game is perfect, though. Doom 2 has the more interesting monsters and Doom 1 the better maps. This is why Doom 2 megawads are so much better than Doom 1 megawads, because they can pick up the slack where Doom 2 failed map-wise while Doom 1 just has to sit around and suffer while being overshadowed by its younger brother.[/QUOTE]
Doom 1 had overall better map design, but the extra content Doom 2 provided helped flesh out the monster roster.
The Super Shotgun is something worth mentioning too, seeing as it's both the worst and best thing to happen to the weapon lineup. I mean it's fucking awesome because of the amazing feedback and how much damage it deals, but it's also pretty horrible because it can trivialize encounters and breaks weapon balance over its double-barreled knee, seeing how firing that thing inexplicably does more than just double the pellet count, it's actually more efficient to use it over the normal shotgun
[QUOTE=Xubs;47802398]I want to be able to absolutely fuck up monsters before they're dead. Peel off the skin of enemies with a chaingun, blow off an arm, blow a hole straight through a zombieman while he continues to shamble around, all sorts of stuff.
Gibbing on its own and how it has been in classic FPS games is boring, being able to visually fuck up an enemy in horrible ways before they die (in addition to gib) is where it's at.[/QUOTE]
You mean like brutal doom?
[QUOTE=Kegan;47802826]Doom 1 had overall better map design, but the extra content Doom 2 provided helped flesh out the monster roster.
The Super Shotgun is something worth mentioning too, seeing as it's both the worst and best thing to happen to the weapon lineup. I mean it's fucking awesome because of the amazing feedback and how much damage it deals, but it's also pretty horrible because it can trivialize encounters and breaks weapon balance over its double-barreled knee, seeing how firing that thing inexplicably does more than just double the pellet count, it's actually more efficient to use it over the normal shotgun[/QUOTE]
At least the super shotgun was nerfed when you're firing at far away enemies.
[QUOTE=Xubs;47802781]all of the enemies in Doom 2 are perfect[/QUOTE]
i still hate pain elementals so very much
speaking of doom weaponry, what's your guys favorite vanilla weapon?
I'm a big fan of the Plasma gun myself.
chaingun. pain chance 2 gud
Personally, I've never really liked the plasmagun too much. I've always felt as if it wastes BFG ammo.
I like the super shotgun, though the chainsaw is a very close second.
Chaingun and the plaszy are the most satisfying to me
Super shotgun and plasma gun are all I need.
i almost never use the plasma, i'll use the chaingun and ssg for whole mapsets and not feel underpowered
Since I grew up with Doom 1, not Doom 2, I have to say my favorite is between the two shotguns depending on the game and situation. If i'm with a bunch of imps and zombiemen in some fairly standard stuff without the SSG, then I prefer the Shotgun. If i'm against a shitton of enemies or one real tough bastard I need to kill quickly, the Super Shotgun's my favorite instead.
:v:
The pump shotgun is my favorite, which is good because you're sometimes stuck with it for awhile. :v:
Runner up is the plasma rifle, it feels great to shoot and looks cool in pretty much all the Doom games.
Does anyone know where I could find a copy of Grezzo 2 and its translation patch? The main website and all download mirrors seem to have dropped off of the face of the earth.
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