[QUOTE=cdr248;47205458]Most wisdom things deal with just being perceptive, noticing things, or determining the motives of others. Which is basically the same thing if you renamed it to Preception. I feel like it would clear up confusion between Int and Wis if Wis was just given a small name change.[/QUOTE]
But it also has to do with your attunement to the divine, your ability to see through lies, and your mental fortitude against many kinds of magic. Perception simply doesn't cover that, it is just a skill.
[QUOTE=cdr248;47205458]Most wisdom things deal with just being perceptive, noticing things, or determining the motives of others. Which is basically the same thing if you renamed it to Preception. I feel like it would clear up confusion between Int and Wis if Wis was just given a small name change.[/QUOTE]
Well let's see, in 5th edition, Wisdom governs...
Primarily: Eficacy with Cleric, Druid and Ranger spellcasting, as well as monk abilities.
Secondary: Ability to mentally resist the effects of certain spells
Tertiary: Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Perception and Survival
Out of all of these things, only Perception is strictly to do with noticing things. Insight has to do with determining the motives of others. However, the primary effect of wisdom and the secondary effect of wisdom don't have anything to do with your perception, with the exception of when it's against an illusion spell.
Also, it's entirely possible to be perceptive without being wise. It's just easier to be perceptive if you have high wisdom. Likewise you can be wise without being perceptive.
[QUOTE=Rents;47205426]Dragons can't into space. And probably don't want to.[/QUOTE]
Meet all joes in space to garuntee not actually dragon.
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;47205527]Meet all joes in space to garuntee not actually dragon.[/QUOTE]
Would also weed out the vampires.
[QUOTE=Glent;47205524]
Primarily: Eficacy with Cleric, Druid and Ranger spellcasting, as well as monk abilities.
Secondary: Ability to mentally resist the effects of certain spells
Tertiary: Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, Perception and Survival
[/QUOTE]
Remove Wisdom.
Add Perception
Move Eficacy to Charisma (since it replaces spirituality in Paladins anyway).
Set Mental Resistance and Medicine to Intillegence.
Set Animal Handling and Insight to Charisma.
Set Survival to Perception.
Or w/e. In summary, Wisdom is an awkward as fuck stat that is just there to cover shit not covered under everything else. It's weird and awkward.
[editline]24th February 2015[/editline]
tl;dr D&D still shit compared to Shadowrun, Magical Burst, Legend of Five Ring.
[QUOTE=gufu;47206012]Remove Wisdom.
Add Perception
Move Eficacy to Charisma (since it replaces spirituality in Paladins anyway).
Set Mental Resistance and Medicine to Intillegence.
Set Animal Handling and Insight to Charisma.
Set Survival to Perception.
Or w/e. In summary, Wisdom is an awkward as fuck stat that is just there to cover shit not covered under everything else. It's weird and awkward.
[editline]24th February 2015[/editline]
tl;dr D&D still shit compared to Shadowrun, Magical Burst, Legend of Five Ring.[/QUOTE]
Wisdom is awkward as fuck and makes no sense.
But removing it and replacing it with perception would be terrible. Perception is such a specialized thing, having an entire stat for it would be ridiculous, and pushing all the things that are currently under wisdom to INT and CHA would unbalance the shit out of them
and while Shadowrun is the best game, i'd like to remind you that in Shadowrun, Intuition is the stat that covers perception.
[QUOTE=gufu;47206012]Remove Wisdom.
Add Perception
Move Eficacy to Charisma (since it replaces spirituality in Paladins anyway).
Set Mental Resistance and Medicine to Intillegence.
Set Animal Handling and Insight to Charisma.
Set Survival to Perception.
Or w/e. In summary, Wisdom is an awkward as fuck stat that is just there to cover shit not covered under everything else. It's weird and awkward.
[editline]24th February 2015[/editline]
tl;dr D&D still shit compared to Shadowrun, Magical Burst, Legend of Five Ring.[/QUOTE]
With this change you basically would make it the most useless stat in the game. It would govern one whole skill and have no usefulness to any specific class. There's a reason it's a skill instead of an ability - because it's such a specific ability.
Any character can be perceptive, as long as they have the perception skill, but only rangers/monks/clerics/druids aim for high wisdom because the ability has a core use for them.
[QUOTE=cdr248;47206413]Intuition actually sounds like it would be better than Perception for a name change. It doesn't seem like it requires you to move anything around and it's not easy to confuse with intelligence[/QUOTE]
The game describes wisdom as representing "perceptiveness and intuition," so Intuition would probably be a fine name for it, since I already explained why Perception is such a minor part of the ability as a whole.
[QUOTE=elowin;47206048]Wisdom is awkward as fuck and makes no sense.
But removing it and replacing it with perception would be terrible. Perception is such a specialized thing, having an entire stat for it would be ridiculous, and pushing all the things that are currently under wisdom to INT and CHA would unbalance the shit out of them
and while Shadowrun is the best game, i'd like to remind you that in Shadowrun, Intuition is the stat that covers perception.[/QUOTE]
Intuition actually sounds like it would be better than Perception for a name change. It doesn't seem like it requires you to move anything around and it's not easy to confuse with intelligence
I just want to make it more like SPECIAL, which I feel covers everything much better.
[editline]24th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=cdr248;47206413]Intuition actually sounds like it would be better than Perception for a name change. It doesn't seem like it requires you to move anything around and it's not easy to confuse with intelligence[/QUOTE]
Chances are, Wisdom would have been Intuition if it wasn't for two Int. words.
[QUOTE=gufu;47206458]I just want to make it more like SPECIAL, which I feel covers everything much better.[/QUOTE]
SPECIAL works with Fallout. In that game, Perception governs your initiative, your ability to fire at long range, your Medicine and your ability to interact with locks and traps, which are all things that it makes sense for Perception to govern. In D&D however, most of those things are already covered by Dexterity. The only thing which isn't is Medicine, which is covered by Wisdom.
The heal skill in D&D isn't actual formally studied medicine though, it's basic first aid and witchdoctor shit.
[QUOTE=Rents;47209328]The heal skill in D&D isn't actual formally studied medicine though, it's basic first aid and witchdoctor shit.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about witchdoctor shit. It lets you stabilize dying characters (first aid) and diagnose illnesses (knowledge).
[QUOTE=Glent;47209954]I don't know about witchdoctor shit. It lets you stabilize dying characters (first aid) and diagnose illnesses (knowledge).[/QUOTE]
I mean that it's traditional medicine, herbal remedies and that kind of thing, basically no one besides maybe wizards and scholars do actual formal study of anatomy since clerics and such are a lot better at it with no specialised training.
[QUOTE=Rents;47210678]I mean that it's traditional medicine, herbal remedies and that kind of thing, basically no one besides maybe wizards and scholars do actual formal study of anatomy since clerics and such are a lot better at it with no specialised training.[/QUOTE]
It seems pretty ambiguous in current edition. Like I said it covers stabilizing dying characters and diagnosing illnesses, doesn't say anything else. With the Healer feat it also lets you use Healer's Kits (which contain bandages, splints and salves, all medical components, rather than pseudomedical) to restore hit points.
[QUOTE=Rents;47204163]Yeah, that's the one and only place in space you can try casting a spell without dropping dead :v:
CFD is pretty interesting though, it could make for interesting plots.[/QUOTE]
Actually one of the supplements for fourth edition talked about space habitats. There [I]are[/I] quite a few places where mages would be fine beyond Mars, namely Daedalus Station at the L4 Point owned by Ares and a few others I can't recall.
But honestly who associates Shadowrun with space? Weirdos, that's who. Metroplex or go home
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;47210866]Actually one of the supplements for fourth edition talked about space habitats. There [I]are[/I] quite a few places where mages would be fine beyond Mars, namely Daedalus Station at the L4 Point owned by Ares and a few others I can't recall.
But honestly who associates Shadowrun with space? Weirdos, that's who. Metroplex or go home[/QUOTE]
Careful with those stones, you might shatter a wall.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;47210866]Actually one of the supplements for fourth edition talked about space habitats. There [I]are[/I] quite a few places where mages would be fine beyond Mars, namely Daedalus Station at the L4 Point owned by Ares and a few others I can't recall.
But honestly who associates Shadowrun with space? Weirdos, that's who. Metroplex or go home[/QUOTE]
Shadowrun would work well for a System Shock style game tho
[QUOTE=elowin;47211170]Shadowrun would work well for a System Shock style game tho[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;_LjtSogs0qM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LjtSogs0qM&ab_channel=SartoriusSeven[/video]
[QUOTE=elowin;47211170]Shadowrun would work well for a System Shock style game tho[/QUOTE]
i feel like EP would be a better system for it.
I think Eclipse Phase would be a better option, there. Maybe restrict morphs to bios that look humanoid, for the players, if you must, but it's got killer robots and AIs pre-built into the system.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;47211249]i feel like EP would be a better system for it.[/QUOTE]
fuck no lol
You can't even shoot fire out of your face in EP
And the tech is way too far ahead
[editline]25th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rats808;47211258]I think Eclipse Phase would be a better option, there. Maybe restrict morphs to bios that look humanoid, for the players, if you must, but it's got killer robots and AIs pre-built into the system.[/QUOTE]
So does Shadowrun
and System Shock is cyberpunk as all fuck
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;47211249]i feel like EP would be a better system for it.[/QUOTE]
EP's technology is war further ahead of System Shock's, plus I don't think it has an analogue to psionics.
[editline]25th February 2015[/editline]
With Shadowrun you basically just have to add lasers, only allow aspected sorcerer mages, make them use psi-amps, remove some spells then ignore essence and astral space and it's pretty close to SS2 just from that.
[QUOTE=Rents;47211399]EP's technology is war further ahead of System Shock's, plus I don't think it has an analogue to psionics.[/QUOTE]
It does. The Watts-MacLeod strain of the Exsurgent virus gives you psi powers/makes you an async. Granted, EP psi sleights seem to be mostly dealing with mental functions and personal capabilities, so it doesn't really work for throwing mind-bolts and shit.
[QUOTE=elowin;47211337]fuck no lol
You can't even shoot fire out of your face in EP
And the tech is way too far ahead
[editline]25th February 2015[/editline]
So does Shadowrun
and System Shock is cyberpunk as all fuck[/QUOTE]
Do you understand how easy it would be to restrict the technology in a habitat to a system shock level
hell, you could have the whole hab covered in a VR overlay no one knows about, so you're literally in system shock while in EP
In fact, one of the scariest games I've ever been in was an EP session that was heavily influenced by system shock.
So I'm currently in a campaign where we're hunting for the Moaning Diamond in Tian Xia.
I brought up that the Moaning Diamond's power is a very large-scale Stone Shape that can be used multiple times a day.
I then brought up that there's a kingdom in Tian Xia that is currently ruled by a Kraken because it's in the lowlands and prone to flooding.
I proposed we deal with the Kraken and then use the Moaning Diamond to fix their flooding problem, becoming national heroes and probably get some spankin' hot waifus out of it.
The DM slapped me.
It's his own fault for having it there. You will, of course, make enemies with the Kraken by doing so so be prepared to never get near water again in your entire life!
[QUOTE=Rats808;47211463]It does. The Watts-MacLeod strain of the Exsurgent virus gives you psi powers/makes you an async. Granted, EP psi sleights seem to be mostly dealing with mental functions and personal capabilities, so it doesn't really work for throwing mind-bolts and shit.[/QUOTE]
it has psychic powers but they're absolutely nothing like System Shock psychic powers
in System Shock 2 you can shoot fucking fireballs out of your face
[QUOTE=Rats808;47211463]It does. The Watts-MacLeod strain of the Exsurgent virus gives you psi powers/makes you an async. Granted, EP psi sleights seem to be mostly dealing with mental functions and personal capabilities, so it doesn't really work for throwing mind-bolts and shit.[/QUOTE]
A lot of SR's spells are nearly exactly the same as a lot of SS2 powers, I think the mine thing is the only SS2 power that wouldn't be in SR as a spell, you just need to ignore the rest of SR's magic system and you could use it with barely any tweaks.
As for guns you'd just need to change the categories from pistols/longarms/automatics/heavy to standard/heavy/energy, make up a few laser weapons and make a shortlist of the guns that'd be in space.
SR's hacking would work as is, which would make things a mix of SS1 and SS2, you could introduce/remove some augmentations to suit how you want things panning out, essence wouldn't sense any more with the removal of magic systems, so maybe letting players buy 'cybermodules' (actually essence points) to spend on augs could be a way of preserving balance.
Let's just agree that trying to run a game based on a game which doesn't have it's own rpg already made requires a ton of homebrew no matter what you try to use for it.
[QUOTE=Rats808;47212052]Let's just agree[/QUOTE]
Never, this is the D&D thread
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
