D&D 4e: This edition sucks edition - Games

[QUOTE=Rents;47611525]Throw dice at people who're not paying attention.[/QUOTE] i hope you're not throwing d4s man that's a warcrime they're worse than legos literally fucking caltrops [editline]27th April 2015[/editline] i'd have to report you to the NATO security council so they can send sternly worded letters at you

[QUOTE=elowin;47611559]i hope you're not throwing d4s man that's a warcrime they're worse than legos literally fucking caltrops [editline]27th April 2015[/editline] i'd have to report you to the NATO security council so they can send sternly worded letters at you[/QUOTE] [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5636656/625x465_106205_98701_1429667720.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Rents;47611599][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5636656/625x465_106205_98701_1429667720.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] If Kevin McAlister had these in the house, Home Alone would be rated an 18 rather than a PG.

[QUOTE=Rats808;47611377]But then you have to use open mic, or w/e, and everyone can hear you making/eating your mcnuggies.[/QUOTE] My headset has a mute button.

Has anybody here played Top Secret/SI? I have a question regarding a house rule I was planning on implementing. Normally, unarmed melee attacks do blunt (non-lethal) damage equal to the tens digit of your strength stat (so if you had strength 68, an unarmed melee attack would do 6 nonlethal damage, which is rather high; it could easily floor a person unless they were built like a truck), but melee attacks with weapons always rely on dice, usually 1d6 or 1d8. My house rule would modify that so it does strength damage PLUS the die, which is brutal, yes (imagine doing 5+1d6 damage to a person in a game where the average human has 5-7 points of HP per hit location), but it makes more sense, doesn't it?

Maybe make strength give you a damage dice instead of flat damage? +1d10 instead of +7 or something maybe just to tone it down a bit but still have a good chance of clobbering someone if you've got high strength.

[QUOTE=Alsojames;47616012]Has anybody here played Top Secret/SI? I have a question regarding a house rule I was planning on implementing. Normally, unarmed melee attacks do blunt (non-lethal) damage equal to the tens digit of your strength stat (so if you had strength 68, an unarmed melee attack would do 6 nonlethal damage, which is rather high; it could easily floor a person unless they were built like a truck), but melee attacks with weapons always rely on dice, usually 1d6 or 1d8. My house rule would modify that so it does strength damage PLUS the die, which is brutal, yes (imagine doing 5+1d6 damage to a person in a game where the average human has 5-7 points of HP per hit location), but it makes more sense, doesn't it?[/QUOTE] how much damage does guns do it almost sounds like you can punch harder than guns

[QUOTE=elowin;47616507]how much damage does guns do it almost sounds like you can punch harder than guns[/QUOTE] Hey, they're just different sort of guns. I've got .50 cals, you've got peashooters.

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;47616510]Hey, they're just different sort of guns. I've got .50 cals, you've got peashooters.[/QUOTE] perhaps, but yours are .50 cal by pixie standards, while my peas are explosive

[QUOTE=elowin;47616536]perhaps, but yours are .50 cal by pixie standards, while my peas are explosive[/QUOTE] Explosive like diahhorea maybe.

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;47616549]Explosive like diahhorea maybe.[/QUOTE] what is a diahhorea

I started reading up on Magical Burst and it's almost making me want to try it out. :v:

[QUOTE=elowin;47616507]how much damage does guns do it almost sounds like you can punch harder than guns[/QUOTE] Not that unusual in RPGs [QUOTE=Dalndox;47617019]I started reading up on Magical Burst and it's almost making me want to try it out. :v:[/QUOTE] It's not too late to get help.

I'm a huge loser so this is just par for the course.

[QUOTE=Dalndox;47617019]I started reading up on Magical Burst and it's almost making me want to try it out. :v:[/QUOTE] I can tell you aaaaaall about it, friend. What would you like? Rules? Official or ReWrite? Homebrew material of my and my group's creation? Stories? We've only been going for 65 sessions and counting. About a year and a half. [QUOTE=Rents;47617057]It's not too late to get help.[/QUOTE] It was already too late the moment he started typing.

[QUOTE=Aperture fan;47617170]I can tell you aaaaaall about it, friend. What would you like? Rules? Official or ReWrite? Homebrew material of my and my group's creation? Stories? We've only been going for 65 sessions and counting. About a year and a half.[/QUOTE] NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD

I've just been reading the official 4e stuff for it and playing with the character creation tables. I heard he's writing a 5th edition, so that's cool. Also, what's the major differences between official and rewrite?

[QUOTE=Dalndox;47617193]I've just been reading the official 4e stuff for it and playing with the character creation tables. I heard he's writing a 5th edition, so that's cool. Also, what's the major differences between official and rewrite?[/QUOTE] Rewrite is way more rules lite, that's about it. Less tables for things, more relying on creativity of the players. It's what my group has been using since day one.

I'll have to check it out after I read the official stuff, I think. Also, I've been using the character creation rolling tables to make a character and she's turned out pretty cool so far.

There's also less chance of stacking things and becoming an ultimate powergamed cheesecake.

[QUOTE=Aperture fan;47617239]There's also less chance of stacking things and becoming an ultimate powergamed cheesecake.[/QUOTE] You say that like it's a good thing.

[QUOTE=elowin;47617248]You say that like it's a good thing.[/QUOTE] I've got enough power to deal with as it is considering Burst is only meant to go up to 20xp as an end game, and my group's at about double that.

[QUOTE=Aperture fan;47617261]I've got enough power to deal with as it is considering Burst is only meant to go up to 20xp as an end game, and my group's at about double that.[/QUOTE] The answer is Galactus.

[QUOTE=elowin;47616507]how much damage does guns do it almost sounds like you can punch harder than guns[/QUOTE] Similar thing. 1d6 or 1d8 for pistols, and rifles are almost always 1d8. The fact that there is almost no difference between guns (the only reason you'd take a PPK over a .22 Baretta is because the PPK gives you an initiative bonus) only exacerbates the issue. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Woops I fucked up. Rereading the rules, I learned that it's the tens digit of the die you roll to make your melee attack that determines damage, not the tens digit of your strength as a flat number. That makes a lot more sense. I got confused because they used a person with strength 67 rolling a 67 to hit as an example (and therefore doing 6 damage). My house rule still stands though. Swinging a baseball bat will only do 1d6 damage, but I do believe that damage should be BONUS damage, because swinging a baseball bat as hard as you swing your fist would almost certainly deal more damage than the fist. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] This brings up probably my only major problem with this system though. In regards to guns, there is such an insignificant difference between most of the guns that you'd only really pick one over the other for style or for crunch. For example, the PPK I picked gives me a +2 to initiative. However, compared to a browning Hi Power, it does less damage (1d6 vs 1d6+1), has way less ammo (7 vs 13) and has a shorter range. The only reason I picked it is because my character/NPC is an assassin so he wants to be able to conceal things better. This is unfortunate, because the expanded equipment book has a chapter that is basically cold war-era gun porn. Pretty much anything you'd see in an old James Bond movie is there. But there are one or two choices that seem glaringly better than most, if for no other reason than they get flat +1s to damage or have more ammo. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] It's even worse because most of the people I'm planning this game for are neither avid roleplayers (in the dice rolling sense; we LARP all the time) nor gun fanatics. One of them is probably going to spend 90% of his character creation deciding whether or not he wants to go with a FRF-1 or an FRF-2, while the others are going to stare at me blankly asking me what a Colt Commando is.

[QUOTE=Alsojames;47618737]-guns and bats and fists and stuff-[/QUOTE] So basically no matter what gun it comes from a small piece of metal flying at you is going to have about the same impact. Just like in real life. It sounds like the entire point of the game is to pick what you think would be cool instead of what you think will give you the best chance of killing the other guy. Fluff over crunch, or however you want to put it. In other words, who gives a shit, its a game, just have fun with it.

[QUOTE=Alsojames;47618737]Similar thing. 1d6 or 1d8 for pistols, and rifles are almost always 1d8. The fact that there is almost no difference between guns (the only reason you'd take a PPK over a .22 Baretta is because the PPK gives you an initiative bonus) only exacerbates the issue. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Woops I fucked up. Rereading the rules, I learned that it's the tens digit of the die you roll to make your melee attack that determines damage, not the tens digit of your strength as a flat number. That makes a lot more sense. I got confused because they used a person with strength 67 rolling a 67 to hit as an example (and therefore doing 6 damage). My house rule still stands though. Swinging a baseball bat will only do 1d6 damage, but I do believe that damage should be BONUS damage, because swinging a baseball bat as hard as you swing your fist would almost certainly deal more damage than the fist. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] This brings up probably my only major problem with this system though. In regards to guns, there is such an insignificant difference between most of the guns that you'd only really pick one over the other for style or for crunch. For example, the PPK I picked gives me a +2 to initiative. However, compared to a browning Hi Power, it does less damage (1d6 vs 1d6+1), has way less ammo (7 vs 13) and has a shorter range. The only reason I picked it is because my character/NPC is an assassin so he wants to be able to conceal things better. This is unfortunate, because the expanded equipment book has a chapter that is basically cold war-era gun porn. Pretty much anything you'd see in an old James Bond movie is there. But there are one or two choices that seem glaringly better than most, if for no other reason than they get flat +1s to damage or have more ammo. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] It's even worse because most of the people I'm planning this game for are neither avid roleplayers (in the dice rolling sense; we LARP all the time) nor gun fanatics. One of them is probably going to spend 90% of his character creation deciding whether or not he wants to go with a FRF-1 or an FRF-2, while the others are going to stare at me blankly asking me what a Colt Commando is.[/QUOTE] how does a pistol give you more initiative, the fuck? Also for the homebrew thing, I see what you're trying to go for, but if it's literally going to make a baseball bat more lethal than a high powered rifle, that's probably not a good thing. Probably

[QUOTE=elowin;47619024]how does a pistol give you more initiative the fuck Also for the homebrew thing, I see what you're trying to go for, but if it's literally going to make a baseball bat more lethal than a high powered rifle, that's probably not a good thing. Probably[/QUOTE] Pistol giving initiative is probably just an abstraction of the fact its usually quicker to aim and fire a pistol, though it's pretty dumb if the initiative bonus applies to actions other than shooting

[QUOTE=Rats808;47619006]So basically no matter what gun it comes from a small piece of metal flying at you is going to have about the same impact. Just like in real life. [/QUOTE] Good point, actually. I feel kind of dumb now. Also, the buff I mentioned would not make a baseball bat more lethal than a high powered rifle. Blunt weapons do "bruise damage", which can knock a guy out but unless you're wailing on him, it won't kill him. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Either way, Top Secret SI is a really good system and if anyone's looking at playing a cold war-era spy thriller type game, that's the one to go for. Regarding setting, is alternate early-mid 2000s where the cold war is still a thing too cliche?

[QUOTE=Rats808;47619006]So basically no matter what gun it comes from a small piece of metal flying at you is going to have about the same impact. Just like in real life. It sounds like the entire point of the game is to pick what you think would be cool instead of what you think will give you the best chance of killing the other guy. Fluff over crunch, or however you want to put it. In other words, who gives a shit, its a game, just have fun with it.[/QUOTE] yeah it honestly just seems like you should chill out about the crunch details (and I say that as an unapologetic gun sperg) Bond could cap fuckers equally easy with his swanky Walther and with a captured AK, after all. it's thematically appropriate!

In hindsight, I completely agree with you. I should really stop posting at 3 in the morning. I guess I was just worried about having 5 super spies carrying the exact same equipment, but what really matters in an RPG is the story. Queue everyone picking the 1911 because it's the one gun they recognize :v: