Dota 2 General Chat XXV - Emergency OP - Games

[QUOTE=Amaurus;41008601]All E3 and E3 related streams are currently loaded with people. It's no surprise it's lagging the whole site. Just chill out and be patient.[/QUOTE] E3 has been going on for 2 weeks? TIL

[QUOTE=Kendra;41008614]E3 has been going on for 2 weeks? TIL[/QUOTE] Summer started 2 weeks ago for many people. I know it started for most schools down here in the Southeast US

[QUOTE=ironman17;41008483]So, with those apparent problems in mind, how would one tweak him to bring him into balance?[/QUOTE] Drop his stat gain? Further nerf or replace his flak cannon so he is unable to be a right-click carry anymore and is a nyx/night stalker-like ganker character now?

Yeah, maybe drop his AGI gain a bit, or maybe shave a few points off his STR so he has a bit less health. Stats might be one way to help, but what of his abilities? Personally I'll admit that it's a bit silly how I can chain Homing Missiles together a lot in a chase, so maybe add a bit more cooldown to Missile so there's less chance of Missile-chaining unless you manage to keep running and still get no help.

[QUOTE=Amaurus;41008632]Summer started 2 weeks ago for many people. I know it started for most schools down here in the Southeast US[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is, Twitch is unwilling to improve their servers due to increased demand? THAT'S MY ENTIRE PROBLEM WITH THEM. [editline]12th June 2013[/editline] On Gyro: just revert his 6.76 and .77 buffs.

[QUOTE=Kendra;41008822]On Gyro: just revert his 6.76 and .77 buffs.[/QUOTE] Increasing the required distance for max damage on the missile makes sense, though I dunno what buffs he got in 6.77; do you mean the buffs from 6.75 per chance?

People don't talk about Gyro because your average pubbie can't play him to save their life. N'aix can be played by anybody with half a mouse and a hand to use it with.

Gyro's carrying is limited entirely to Flak Cannon. Given, his Agi growth is neat (but STR is rather low), but it's kinda the same thing as it was with Sven a while ago. People noticed that by fueling less money through Sven, compared to other carries, you could get insanely better results due to Cleave + God's Strength. This has fallen out of fashion though (making Sven once again any-role kind of guy instead of forcing him into 1 habit of carrying), because people learned to play against that, namely : get rid of people to help him Cleave well (Seer, Magnus, etc) or wait out the God's Strength, which has fairly long CD (80) and without it he's your average run of the mill kind of carry. With Gyro, he has tools to be a ganker, he can work well with little even making it valiable to support on the side and pick up the slack when things are calmer, but because of the potential of the Flak Cannon, being "better" Split Shot but with limitation/cooldown, he used purely for damage. So I say, buff Medusa so that she's picked for what Gyro is being picked now. Gyro is fine where he is. If he's used as a carry, then unless enemy team dies under the Flak Cannon, he's just ganker-like (Strong, but possibly to be isolated/kept under control) with unlikely probabilities to reach second Flak Cannon series.

[QUOTE=Shibbey;41008907]People don't talk about Gyro because your average pubbie can't play him to save their life. N'aix can be played by anybody with half a mouse and a hand to use it with.[/QUOTE] Funny you should say that, since the first character I played in Dota 2 was Gyro; for a time he was my main in All Pick before I decided to "enter training" through Single Draft. During my early days at noob level I actually played him relatively well; either that or my enemies sucked. Nowadays I haven't played him as much, being that Single Draft randomly picks heroes and Gyro hasn't popped up all that often for me. Still when I do play him he's still kinda neat.

Speaking of OP carries, juggernaut feels ridiculously OP to me in my tier. Whenever he pops up in RD and I feel like a nice relaxing one-sided stomp I take him and so far, without fail, I've completely dominated the laning phase. He's just insane at making kills happen; all you need is a stun or a slow to go off and you're set up. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7346219/juggs.png[/img]

[QUOTE=ironman17;41008902]Increasing the required distance for max damage on the missile makes sense, though I dunno what buffs he got in 6.77; do you mean the buffs from 6.75 per chance?[/QUOTE] Yes

[QUOTE=Robbobin;41009117]Speaking of OP carries, juggernaut feels ridiculously OP to me in my tier. Whenever he pops up in RD and I feel like a nice relaxing one-sided stomp I take him and so far, without fail, I've completely dominated the laning phase. He's just insane at making kills happen; all you need is a stun or a slow to go off and you're set up. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7346219/juggs.png[/img][/QUOTE] Notice he's been picked up exactly for that. He has very smooth transitions from laning, to pushing, to sieging, to teamfight to actual kills, be it during all that or on isolated targets. The only vulnerability he has, that unlike Naix his Spin is static damage and while a lot like Rage it can't be used well in conjunction with heavy duty items, making his carrying slightly less spectacular, unless snowballing hard or at the extremely late stage where you can use the fact that during Omnislash you can right-click with enough Attack Speed (clutch Omnislashes can win late-game fights).

The problem with Jugger is is that he's an awful late-game carry. The problem with pub games is that they're awful at late-game. It's easy to link the two.

[QUOTE=Kendra;41009214]The problem with Jugger is is that he's an awful late-game carry. The problem with pub games is that they're awful at late-game. It's easy to link the two.[/QUOTE] I thought average pub had Carry ratio of 5:Team, making late game just a yes/no question of "Do we have more&bigger carries" ? I mean, it's not like pub play excells at tactical rotations, roaming and ingenious plays in the early game.

The one carry I consistently carry with is Luna. She feels very, very powerful to play, but I don't see her all that much. No idea why, really, she just needs a BKB and then she starts rolling faces. [t]http://i.imgur.com/7ZayuLG.png[/t]

Well, my 50% winrate when into the trash in a blink of the eye. I shouldn't even try.

I think in most of my juggernaut games I've had my team's hard carry on the safe-lane anyway, so we use the early advantage I'm able to get on the hard lane as leverage for him safely farming his lane/the jungle. The worst thing about it is that in most games, he strolls out of the jungle at 40 minutes, completely kitted out, but we've already trashed their base by the time he reaches us. Such is the life of the hard carry. I don't have the patience for most hard carries because I hate how in a really good game, you're more or less redundant, and in a really bad game, you never get online.

[QUOTE=Robbobin;41009317]I think in most of my juggernaut games I've had my team's hard carry on the safe-lane anyway, so we use the early advantage I'm able to get on the hard lane as leverage for him safely farming his lane/the jungle. The worst thing about it is that in most games, he strolls out of the jungle at 40 minutes, completely kitted out, but we've already trashed their base by the time he reaches us. Such is the life of the hard carry. I don't have the patience for most hard carries because I hate how in a really good game, you're more or less redundant, and in a really bad game, you never get online.[/QUOTE] this is why juggernaut is amazing he's one of the few carries that makes for legitimately exciting matches too bad none of the jugs in pubs know what items like drum, soulring, or diffusal blade are

[QUOTE=cheetahben;41006764]I feel like ever since LoL got big, every other company out there is trying to cash in and make it just as big with their own little MOBA spin-off. The only ones that seem to have any originality of their own are LoL and SMITE, I played both regularly for a while. The only MOBA I ever play anymore is Dota 2.[/QUOTE] MNC and Awesomenauts Both aded the dota elements but with another perspective and controls :v:

I typically get a drum if I'm lining up to semi-carry (I go phase>drum>deso>aghs, then if the game isn't over, butterfly), and I have literally no idea why it never crossed my mind to throw a soulring in. I've been held back from getting even more kills with him due to mana constraints so many times and it never occurred to me that a soulring would be the perfect item. Christ I'm thick.

[QUOTE=Robbobin;41009376]I typically get a drum if I'm lining up to semi-carry (I go phase>drum>deso>aghs, then if the game isn't over, butterfly), and I have literally no idea why it never crossed my mind to throw a soulring in. I've been held back from getting even more kills with him due to mana constraints so many times and it never occurred to me that a soulring would be the perfect item. Christ I'm thick.[/QUOTE] yeah soulring is pretty baller for jug the mana helps him actually spin more than once, and the health loss is mostly mitigated by healing ward with healing ward mentioned, it's amazing if you max your healing ward second for pushing purposes

I've recently discovered that if a target is not affected by blade fury(BKB), you can hit it with normal attacks. So basically, you damage everyone else with spinning and the BKB'd guy with your auto-attacks. That actually looks crazy useful in late-game.

You dont deal damage with your attacks though, but you can proc items.

[QUOTE=Toyhobo;41009657]You dont deal damage with your attacks though, but you can proc items.[/QUOTE] You do, if the target is magic immune. Try to spin and hit Tower as Jugg.

[QUOTE=Shibbey;41008907]People don't talk about Gyro because your average pubbie can't play him to save their life. N'aix can be played by anybody with half a mouse and a hand to use it with.[/QUOTE] Hey man, to be fair, you DO need both your left and right click to so you can open wound people.

[QUOTE=Robbobin;41009317]I think in most of my juggernaut games I've had my team's hard carry on the safe-lane anyway, so we use the early advantage I'm able to get on the hard lane as leverage for him safely farming his lane/the jungle. The worst thing about it is that in most games, he strolls out of the jungle at 40 minutes, completely kitted out, but we've already trashed their base by the time he reaches us. Such is the life of the hard carry. I don't have the patience for most hard carries because I hate how in a really good game, you're more or less redundant, and in a really bad game, you never get online.[/QUOTE] This is why I prefer playing Anti-Mage if I'm playing a hardcarry. He's incredibly powerful when farmed, but doesn't take as ungodly long as Void/Medusa to reach the stage of being useful. Hell, with a BFury, some ballsy moves and a bit of luck you can be fully farmed @ 35 minutes in.

It was an interesting change to HoN's version of Juggernaut, once he got 4th level on his spin he could autoattack during it.

Test client update out, no new heroes [quote]VISUALS - Updated Puck's face - Updated Brewmaster's face GAMEPLAY - Axe: Fixed Berserker's Call bonus armor being dispellable - Batrider: Fixed Flamebreak being a constant 300 knockback distance instead of a variable amount (10->400) based on the distance from the center of the blast - Beastmaster: Fixed Turn Rate on Beastmaster's Hawk and Boar being slightly too low - Bloodseeker: Fixed Bloodrage cast range (600->800) - Brewmaster: Fixed Earth Primal Split Boulder manacost - Chaos Knight: Fixed Reality Rift bonus damage sometimes proccing multiple times if you attack more than once in 1.2 seconds - Drow: Fixed a rare bug with Trueshot Aura that could cause it to not give bonus damage - Elder Titan: Fixed Ancestral Spirit legacy keys not working - Jakiro: Fixed Liquid Fire damage interval happening every 1 second instead of every 0.5 seconds - Juggernaut: Fixed some vision issues with Omnislash - Huskar: Fixed Burning Spears counter logic getting forgotten when purged - Invoker: Fixed Ice Wall not slowing units like Golems, Familiars, and Primal Split units - Io: Fixed the initial Relocate not being interrupted if Io was only disable in the cast time but not when the teleportation happened - Io: Fixed the initial Relocate not getting interrupted by Root debuffs (Ensnare, Overgrowth, etc) - Io Fixed Relocate not revealing FoW for enemies - Io: Fixed Relocate not showing the initial visual effect on the ground for enemies (only showed ping) - Io: Fixed being able to return Tether Relocate with a different set of targeting rules than the initial direction (no longer allowed to return relocate a creep) - Io: Fixed Overcharge missing a 2 second toggle cooldown - Lifestealer: Fixed allied cast Infest killing the creeps and healing you - Lone Druid: Fixed Battle Cry not having an aoe limit (should be 1000) - Medusa: Fixed Mystic Snake not jumping to magic immune units - Nature's Prophet: Fixed being able to use Teleporation while rooted - Nyx Assassin: Fixed Spiked Carapace charge not getting used when hurt by an invulnerable source - Razor: Fixed Unstable Current not purging off Repel - Shadow Fiend: Fixed casting subsequent Shadowrazes being too slow - Slark: Fixed Shadow Dance passive buff icon updating on hero proximity while dead - Slark: Fixed Pounce sometimes causing an allied Flaming Lasso to end early. - Spectre: Fixed Spectre Illusions benefiting from the damage reduction portion of Dispersion - Tidehunter: Fixed Kraken Shell working while Doomed - Timbersaw: Fixed Timberchain ending prematurely with Stone Gaze, Diffusal Blade, etc - Treant Protector: Fixed Living Armor being castable on magic immune allies - Undying: Fixed Zombie units losing HP with Soul Rip - Fixed Truestrike causing you to be unable to miss against Towers - Fixed Roshan missing the final 500 hp/10 dmg upgrade later in the game - Fixed Backswing behavior with Rupture, Viscous Nasal Goo, Fissure, Decay and Earthshock - Fixed truesight being unable to be applied to sleeping/invulnerable units - Fixed Filler buildings having no armor - Fixed Neutral's Frost Armor slow affecting magic immune enemies UI - Added Quick Cast option to Game menu: causes all abilities to cast immediately upon keypress, targeting the cursor's current position - Improved UI feedback and functionality when connection to the DOTA network is lost or has not yet been established. - Client no longer waits for connection to the DOTA network before allowing access to the UI. Features that do not require this connection are accessible. - You can now hold control when pinging to send a "caution" ping instead. - Added Aegis reclaim and Roshan respawn timers to the spectator popups. AUDIO - Added Ownage sounds to Storm Spirit, Axe, Nature's Prophet, and Juggernaut Killing Spree announcers. - Added distant tower destruction sounds. - Added Mortal Strike sfx. - Fixed sync on Freezing Field. COMMUNITY - Fixed bug allowing reports outside of matches in certain contexts - Players receive an additional report submission if someone they report subsequently receives a communication ban PERFORMANCE - Fixed an intermittent crash on some particle effects like medusa's ultimate[/quote]

[QUOTE=Belivo;41009826]It was an interesting change to HoN's version of Juggernaut, once he got 4th level on his spin he could autoattack during it.[/QUOTE] Eh. So it's Rage that gives AoE Damage instead of Attack Speed. Weird how adding feature makes it less unique.

So Puck and Brewmaster are apparently getting new faces. I wonder what they'll look like?