[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;41263643]To everybody defending the mute system, EternalEnvy just made a long post on it: [url]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409863¤tpage=26#507[/url][/QUOTE]
"Being a masochist, I consistently play solo queue DotA where I may find myself playing with a stack of friends that I have to suck off."
wow EE
[QUOTE=Gar~;41263821]"Being a masochist, I consistently play solo queue DotA where I may find myself playing with a stack of friends that I have to suck off."
wow EE[/QUOTE]
Hey he's right. He's extremely blunt about it but he's right.
I still haven't seen how the mute system terribly ruins everyones lives and mutes half of the entire playerbase that aren't casual.
Sure, it needs improvement, like telling the muted guy what he said wrong, but other than that it works pretty decently.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;41263836]Hey he's right. He's extremely blunt about it but he's right.[/QUOTE]
but he's not? it doesn't matter if a 4 stack reports you, it only counts as one report.
[QUOTE=Rarara;41263973]I still haven't seen how the mute system terribly ruins everyones lives and mutes half of the entire playerbase that aren't casual.
Sure, it needs improvement, like telling the muted guy what he said wrong, but other than that it works pretty decently.[/QUOTE]
In a game that's entirely based around communication taking away people's abilities to communicate anything more than pinging (which can mean ANYTHING) and the most basic missing calls is fucking retarded. You can't call runes, can't call wards, can't call that you're unable to engage for various reasons etc etc.
[editline]1st July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=pvt.meh;41263998]but he's not? it doesn't matter if a 4 stack reports you, it only counts as one report.[/QUOTE]
You're completely missing his point if you think I was talking about that.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;41264005]In a game that's entirely based around communication taking away people's abilities to communicate anything more than pinging (which can mean ANYTHING) and the most basic missing calls is fucking retarded. You can't call runes, can't call wards, can't call that you're unable to engage for various reasons etc etc.
[/QUOTE]
To me, I see it that muted folks had the ability to communicate like that properly, but they abused it and therefore lost the privilege. If they were muted for a reason, then they weren't communicating properly to start with, and therefore the need to communicate isn't really an argument.
[QUOTE=EliteGuy;41263758]eternal envy deserves to be muted, he's an asshole and he flames people a lot in pubs[/QUOTE]
My friend made a list of a lot of Dota personalities currently muted.
[sp] There were over 15 [/sp]
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264178]To me, I see it that muted folks had the ability to communicate like that properly, but they abused it and therefore lost the privilege. If they were muted for a reason, then they weren't communicating properly to start with, and therefore the need to communicate isn't really an argument.[/QUOTE]
what if they didnt abuse it? what if they got reported for no reason by someone who hated them?
[editline]1st July 2013[/editline]
you cant tell, and valve cant tell either
the system is fucking automated
if you assume it was for a real reason, than those people abused their ability to communicate
what you're arguing is that the mute system itself is fundamentally flawed because the very nature of removing communication can't work, while I'm saying that those properly muted didn't communicate like that anyway, so that argument isn't valid.
The automated portion is a separate argument, and even so I don't think it's quite as bad as a vocal minority seem to imply.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264265]if you assume it was for a real reason, than those people abused their ability to communicate
what you're arguing is that the mute system itself is fundamentally flawed because the very nature of removing communication can't work, while I'm saying that those properly muted didn't communicate like that anyway, so that argument isn't valid.
The automated portion is a separate argument, and even so I don't think it's quite as bad as a vocal minority seem to imply.[/QUOTE]
You're assuming that every ban is justified. Hint: It's not. Communication bans in this game go against what it's about in the first place, and not everybody who gets banned has actually 'broken the rules' which makes it even worse.
but more than 50% of people currently muted didnt abuse anything? sorry but the system is flawed and doesnt work because it has no way of telling whether if a guy actually did something wrong or not.
In order to argue that the very idea of a communication ban is wrong, you have to take into account proper bans.
Communication bans aren't fundamentally flawed. Those that abuse the ability to communicate wouldn't have called missing or anything like that anyway. We don't need people in the game whose only interaction with their team is to harass them and call them bad at the game.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264265]
The automated portion is a separate argument, and even so I don't think it's quite as bad as a vocal minority seem to imply.[/QUOTE]
[B][I]What vocal minority?[/I][/B]
I know multiple people who have been muted for incredibly stupid reasons. Almost every game I see at least one person saying "report x" for a stupid reason. Everywhere Dota related I go I hear complaints about the mute system.
Valve took a community infamous for blaming everything on everyone else as well as being toxic and angry for no good reason, and [I]gave them a way to take out their anger on other players freely[/I]. Please explain to me the way in which this wasn't a hideously incompetent decision? [I]Especially considering the game has a bloody mute function?[/I]
I would be somewhat fine with a muting system if the current chat wheels wasn't so terrible
It's insane things like Yes, No, Sorry! aren't even in the wheel. And even then it could use things like "let's group up" or "enemy returned to lane" (which would be actually be cool to have even anyway)
Should be unmuted though tonight, 1 week of well played sucks
by the way, one thing i never got is if you're not allowed to use curse language, why the hell aren't they censored or something? It's kind of conflicting in its current state
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264306]In order to argue that the very idea of a communication ban is wrong, you have to take into account proper bans.
Communication bans aren't fundamentally flawed. [B]Those that abuse the ability to communicate wouldn't have called missing or anything like that anyway.[/B] We don't need people in the game whose only interaction with their team is to harass them and call them bad at the game.[/QUOTE]
Says who? Seriously, what makes you think people aren't commbanned because of constantly insulting others? Who says that you either communicate everything you should without a foul word or that you insult the living daylights out of people without calling missing? Hell, what makes you think people get reported for not calling ss? I've yet to see anybody get reported for that, it's always because they're being abusive douchebags in chat. Doesn't mean they're not calling ss.
[QUOTE=Ignoritus;41264317]Please explain to me the way in which this wasn't a hideously incompetent decision? [I]Especially considering the game has a bloody mute function?[/I][/QUOTE]
I don't have to, Valve did already
I'm not mad that I got muted for the sole purpose of that I deserved it a long time before. :v:
Since we're on the topic of mutes.
I've becomes a lot less chatty in dota since I got my first mute(recently got another 24h mute but what evs), the only chatting I usually do now, is co-ordinating lanes/picks in the start of the game, if my team is falling back or we need to co-ordinate meka or pipe, gg at the end. Nothing more.
Ok maybe I respond to a few shit talkers who like to blame their team or one guy in particular, because I hate it when people like to blame everyone but themselves.
Started playing DOTA 2 again, apparently in Very high skill(don't notice big difference).
KOTL is so fucking fun with his teleport.
I teleport an ally and right before he teleports, he gets hit by a hook from clockwork.
But he teleports to me anyway into safety.
I can speculate that the mute system has improved my gameplay experience; not nearly as much hateful comments across teams as before its release.
However, I am aware of the backswing with it, where it isn't a 100% foolproof system due to the inconsistency and unknown intents of who you are matchmaked with;
one player might just be the kid who AFKs and uses his reports every week for random reasons, some of which may convict innocent players.
The system in which Valve does this is unknown (to my knowledge), so I cannot determine whether it's automated and based off of a pattern of reports in a week, or if actual employees are reviewing reports(which could be why they reduced report count).
All-in-all, I am concerned that the system requires refinement, but how to address it? The solution of a unmute system, as proposed by EE sounds decent, but wouldn't such a feature halve the efficiency of the mute system in the first place?
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264366]I don't have to, Valve did already[/QUOTE]
Please show me where.
really now?
[url]http://blog.dota2.com/[/url]
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264753]really now?
[url]http://blog.dota2.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]http://blog.dota2.com/2013/05/communication-reports/[/url]
Sorry, it bothers me when people don't send the main page they refer to.
I couldn't, the blog was down
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264803]I couldn't, the blog was down[/QUOTE]
Huh, that's weird. Other than an error I got when I clicked the reports blog post specifically, it loaded fine.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264306]Communication bans aren't fundamentally flawed. Those that abuse the ability to communicate wouldn't have called missing or anything like that anyway. We don't need people in the game whose only interaction with their team is to harass them and call them bad at the game.[/QUOTE]
I call missing in every one of my games, and I ask for wards, alert people to what I'm buying, organise ganks and pushes and various other things. Now I'm banned for literally no valid reason, and the only thing I'm able to do is call missing in my lane and throw out a bunch of extremely vague and largely unlistened to commands.
The system is flawed in that it follows a highly limited chat wheel system, instead of something more Unreal Tournament: a ladder-based system of chat commands, which allows you to have a large amount of varying commands that fall under different categories which are all easily accessed.
Hey guys, really neat game between Tongfu and Na'vi. 2 amazing aegis steals, and teamfights whole game.
[url]http://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit/b/424287460?t=3h33m30s[/url]
I need some serious help with [url=http://dotabuff.com/players/101976250/matches?hero=templar-assassin&game_mode=&match_type=real]Templar Assassin[/url].
A majority of those wins were against incompotent players so I cant really credit them. I really like her as a hero but I just can't seem to get the early game advantage that I see happen to most TA's, and if I get behind I don't know how to pick up either (even though it's difficult enough). Can any experienced TA players help me out?
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;41264753]really now?
[URL]http://blog.dota2.com/[/URL][/QUOTE]
From the post you were referring to:
[quote]We don’t want to restrict anyone’s speech nor prevent anyone from speaking their mind, but for everyone who feels slighted by their inability to say exactly what they want to their teammates or opponents in-game, there is someone on the receiving end of that criticism who is having just as bad an experience (or worse).[/quote]
[I]Yet this is exactly what happens.[/I] You can get banned for speaking your mind in an inoffensive manner simply because whoever you're talking to doesn't like being called out. You [B]have[/B] to tip-toe around because there are plenty of people who will report you for fuck-all reason other than FUK U CYKA. Sure one of those reports won't do shit, but it's not just one guy and it's not just occasionally. And that's not the only problem, it's that they're leaving problems in they could easily solve. Example:
[quote]Ignoring the side problems around some players not knowing about muting, [/quote]
They could easily make it more obvious how/where to mute people, but instead they opt for this system.
[quote]and that’s one of the reasons why we’ve tried to build a system where the community gets to own the definition of abuse[/quote]
The community is known to be extremely bitchy/whiny/toxic, yet they [B]willingly[/B] give them the power to decide whether others should be able to communicate or not.
In short: that post not only doesn't explain how this isn't a flawed system, [B]it actually points out more than 1 flaw it has[/B].
Are you using traps? Are you using psi blades for harass? TA almost always wins mid through psi blade harass
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