[QUOTE=bdd458;41893968]Exactly. WWI covered a lot, on many fronts. From the much more conventional early war, to the trench era, and finally the mobility of the late war. And that is just the Western Front! You have the Eastern Front, Balkan Front, Italian Front, and the Ottoman Front (Gallipoli and all that).
On top of that The Trench era had a lot of interesting new tactics such as Trench Raiding.[/QUOTE]
I'd personally like to see a game covering the grand sweeping maneuver operations in 1914 France. One wargamer saw that period as the Franco-Prussian War (an interesting "age of rifles" war to study) if it was fought with smokeless powder.
It's actually pretty damn unfortunate that historiography up to this day has heavily over-emphasized the image of trench stalemate to the extent that the groups that have overcome the stereotypical image are usually academics, history enthusiasts, and wargamers (the dudes who play tabletop historical wargames).
I regret not pre-ordering this. Also, Japan was in WWI. There was actually a threatre around Manchuria which even less people remember then those of WWI. Japan was even Allied!
[QUOTE=Tac Error;41895234]I'd personally like to see a game covering the grand sweeping maneuver operations in 1914 France. One wargamer saw that period as the Franco-Prussian War (an interesting "age of rifles" war to study) if it was fought with smokeless powder.[/quote]
It's not an action game but just a few years ago John Tiller Software released an operational level strategy game about the beginning stages of the Western Front titled [url=www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/WW1/France14/france14.html]First World War Campaigns: France '14.[/url] I haven't played it myself but John Tiller games have a good reputation. If it looks ugly to you there's a quite extensive graphics mod [url=http://mapmod.hist-sdc.com/fwwc.htm]here[/url].
Also, the same company released a [I]tactical[/I] level game spanning a good portion of the [I]entire war[/I] entitled [url=http://www.johntillersoftware.com/SquadBattles/FirstWorldWar.html]Squad Battles: First World War[/url] just last year, part of a very large series spanning from WWI to the modern era. This I do own and it's a very good game. Here's a screenshot I took some time ago showing the beginning of a scenario and the sort of scale you could expect: you can control individual leaders and infantry units of variable size depending on the stage in the war, as well as individual vehicles and guns.
[t]http://imgkk.com/i/-b0v.png[/t]
Sorry for sounding like some car salesman, I just really like repping for Great War games.
[quote]It's actually pretty damn unfortunate that historiography up to this day has heavily over-emphasized the image of trench stalemate to the extent that the groups that have overcome the stereotypical image are usually academics, history enthusiasts, and wargamers (the dudes who play tabletop historical wargames).[/QUOTE]
Trench warfare is actually an extremely intricate and interesting practice; there's far more to it than most would believe, both in defense and offense. The Hollywood image of men climbing over simple ditches into swaths of machine gun fire is a massive dramatization, in reality combat on the Western Front during that period tended to be much more deliberate and complicated to the point that it was developed into an exacting science. It's not that most people focus on the wrong thing, it's just that they look at it in an almost completely fictitious manner.
John Tiller wargames are researched well, but I'm not the type to micromanage hundreds of counters every turn. I'd like to see something like the Command Ops engine with more elegant controls and interface, and adapted to WWI.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;41896615]John Tiller wargames are researched well, but I'm not the type to micromanage hundreds of counters every turn. I'd like to see something like the Command Ops engine with more elegant controls and interface, and adapted to WWI.[/QUOTE]
I can respect that, it's pretty damn intimidating. Still, i'm getting tired of the period only being represented by flight sims and strategic-level strategy games. I want to feel more connected with everything. I want to fight from traverse to traverse with bags of grenades under my arm and a carbine slung over my back.
SB:FWW has smaller scenarios though, I think the one pictured is meant to be played kind of cooperatively between two or three people.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;41896473]It's not an action game but just a few years ago John Tiller Software released an operational level strategy game about the beginning stages of the Western Front titled [url=www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/WW1/France14/france14.html]First World War Campaigns: France '14.[/url] I haven't played it myself but John Tiller games have a good reputation. If it looks ugly to you there's a quite extensive graphics mod [url=http://mapmod.hist-sdc.com/fwwc.htm]here[/url].
Also, the same company released a [I]tactical[/I] level game spanning a good portion of the [I]entire war[/I] entitled [url=http://www.johntillersoftware.com/SquadBattles/FirstWorldWar.html]Squad Battles: First World War[/url] just last year, part of a very large series spanning from WWI to the modern era. This I do own and it's a very good game. Here's a screenshot I took some time ago showing the beginning of a scenario and the sort of scale you could expect: you can control individual leaders and infantry units of variable size depending on the stage in the war, as well as individual vehicles and guns.
[t]http://imgkk.com/i/-b0v.png[/t]
Sorry for sounding like some car salesman, I just really like repping for Great War games.
Trench warfare is actually an extremely intricate and interesting practice; there's far more to it than most would believe, both in defense and offense. The Hollywood image of men climbing over simple ditches into swaths of machine gun fire is a massive dramatization, in reality combat on the Western Front during that period tended to be much more deliberate and complicated to the point that it was developed into an exacting science. It's not that most people focus on the wrong thing, it's just that they look at it in an almost completely fictitious manner.[/QUOTE]
Looks pretty interesting, I'll have to check those out. I've been studying WWI on my own for about the past 4 years and it's my favorite time period.
Also, I forgot this screenshot from a few days ago.
[IMG]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/1016688_550011861728936_1812894961_n.jpg[/IMG]
As well, here is today's. Another NPC.
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/249096_566922866704502_931524997_n.jpg[/IMG]
Ah ha! I knew those German boots didn't look right! They had changed into black boots by 1915 since they gave out a new uniform during that time and yet this game takes place in 1916 and continues to have the brown boots. Historic inaccuracies, I say!!! Unacceptable! Do you mind telling the dev, bdd, since you know him. Who knows, he may actually give a damn.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;41895234] overcome the stereotypical image are usually academics, history enthusiasts, and wargamers (the dudes who play tabletop historical wargames).[/QUOTE]
There was alot of sitting around in trenches and that was the worst part. The generation of pissed off and depressed Cynics afterwards really emphasized that.
This game isn't my ideal ww1 game, mine would be more like battlefield with different vehicles and huge servers.
[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;41897392]Ah ha! I knew those German boots didn't look right! They had changed into black boots by 1915 since they gave out a new uniform during that time and yet this game takes place in 1916 and continues to have the brown boots. Historic inaccuracies, I say!!! Unacceptable! Do you mind telling the dev, bdd, since you know him. Who knows, he may actually give a damn.[/QUOTE]
I'll pass the message on, probably shouldn't be too hard of an edit.
[editline]19th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41897453]There was alot of sitting around in trenches and that was the worst part. The generation of pissed off and depressed Cynics afterwards really emphasized that.
This game isn't my ideal ww1 game, mine would be more like battlefield with different vehicles and huge servers.[/QUOTE]
There was a lot of waiting in other wars as well, but what we get is the actual action and battles for those wars.
I hope I can make my WWI game. I've started programming for it again...
Fuckityfuckfuck.
Well today some sad fucking news was posted. And they waited two days until the release to tell us!
I'll let their words speak for themselves.
[quote]
Unfortunately I come to you with bad news, the alpha will not be ready for the 24th as expected for two reasons:
1) The platform we developed for recovering THE TRENCH and implementation of the automatic update is not reliable enough to provide consistent updates for the evolution of the alpha. This is also one of the reasons that led us to close the pre-orders.
2) The separation of the map gives us a lot more work than expected, On the other hand, it has added a lot more content to the game than expected. Certain areas of the original map doubled in size, so it was necessary to add other gameplay elements to ensure the coherence of the game.
As soon as we fix both of these problems, we will be back to tell you the release date of the alpha.
We are aware that many of you will be disappointed, but I made you believe that our commitment is unwavering and we are working really hard to release the alpha.
Finally by the end of the month we are going to release a new video trailer online which was supposed to be launched at the same time as the alpha, as well as other videos showing the features of THE TRENCH.
Thank you again for your support[/quote].
hopefully November, hopefully November, hopefully November...
At least they're working on adding more content. To me, the project has become more than Cyril can really do on his own, which is a good portion of the problem. He has a job other than developing the game and then now has all of this new work associated with it piled on top. And from my knowledge Fred has no experience coding, which is why he sticks with sounds and music.
However, I would say bringing in more people could complicate the process even further, who knows.
Well, watch this an be calmed I guess.
[video=youtube;nOcEX3dYn3s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOcEX3dYn3s[/video]
[QUOTE=bdd458;41931357]Fuckityfuckfuck.
Well today some sad fucking news was posted. And they waited two days until the release to tell us!
I'll let their words speak for themselves.
.
hopefully November, hopefully November, hopefully November...
At least they're working on adding more content. To me, the project has become more than Cyril can really do on his own, which is a good portion of the problem. He has a job other than developing the game and then now has all of this new work associated with it piled on top. And from my knowledge Fred has no experience coding, which is why he sticks with sounds and music.
However, I would say bringing in more people could complicate the process even further, who knows.
Well, watch this an be calmed I guess.
[video=youtube;nOcEX3dYn3s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOcEX3dYn3s[/video][/QUOTE]
I'm honestly surprised one guy managed as much as he has. Is there any other games/mods that Cyril has worked on before?
[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;41931665]I'm honestly surprised one guy managed as much as he has. Is there any other games/mods that Cyril has worked on before?[/QUOTE]
From the team's introduction on the French forums they've done a few experimental things in the past, but nothing as ambitious as this.
"We are longtime friends while both from Seine et Marne, passionate video games including FPS.
We always cherish the ambition to create a video game from a very young age. Moreover, before this game we had already developed a few experimental tinkering.
About our courses we have never worked in the video game industry, we are completely self-taught in the field.
Cyril R 31: works primarily on programming, modeling / anim
Fred T 30 years is responsible for the music composition and sound design, and also assists Cyril throughout its areas of expertise, and will also be your main point of reference on the forum."
[editline]22nd August 2013[/editline]
As well, I do believe that not giving a date is better sign, because yes it may take longer to develop. However, this makes sure nothing is rushed and they can get everything to properly work for the Alpha.
To me it seems they are trying to go with the industry's version of what an Alpha/Beta/Full version is, being feature locked at alpha, unlike Minecraft.
So I've got a neat piece of new information. The message about the boots got passed along and Cyril stated that the troops outfitted with newer equipment will have their black boots. Those that were still using a lot of older equipment will have brown.
As well, the English community rep has been talking with Cyril nearly nonstop since the announcement. Cyril is really disappointed he wasn't able to get the Alpha out on time, and his biggest fear at the momentis the communities reaction.
He really did want to get it out on the 24th, and he is really sorry he wasn't able to.
I'm hoping that they get to polish the game a little bit more because of the delay.
Yeah, that's Cyril's plan. To get the downloader/launcher/updater working 100%, and to finish getting some new gameplay stuff into the expanded areas. After those two things are done it should be smooth sailing.
[QUOTE=bdd458;41947581]So I've got a neat piece of new information. The message about the boots got passed along and Cyril stated that the troops outfitted with newer equipment will have their black boots. Those that were still using a lot of older equipment will have brown.
As well, the English community rep has been talking with Cyril nearly nonstop since the announcement. Cyril is really disappointed he wasn't able to get the Alpha out on time, and his biggest fear at the momentis the communities reaction.
He really did want to get it out on the 24th, and he is really sorry he wasn't able to.[/QUOTE]
Wow, that's really cool he replied! I guess that's one of the great things about small developers, you can actually communicate with them. Anyway, I'm not too upset about the delay as we've been waiting a long time so a little longer is not a big deal. Thanks for updating us on his progress!
[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;41952746]Wow, that's really cool he replied! I guess that's one of the great things about small developers, you can actually communicate with them. Anyway, I'm not too upset about the delay as we've been waiting a long time so a little longer is not a big deal. Thanks for updating us on his progress![/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly. He had to make the choice between releasing a broken game to please those that are saying it will never come out and alienate those that wanted this to be really good, or delay it so it is working and pretty darn good, but alienate those that are saying it is never coming out.
He made a really tough decision, but IMO the best one.
[QUOTE=bdd458;41952797]My thoughts exactly. He had to make the choice between releasing a broken game to please those that are saying it will never come out and alienate those that wanted this to be really good, or delay it so it is working and pretty darn good, but alienate those that are saying it is never coming out.
He made a really tough decision, but IMO the best one.[/QUOTE]
As Shigeru Miyamoto said, "a delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."
[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;41952829]As Shigeru Miyamoto said, "a delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."[/QUOTE]
Except Duke Nukem forever. Never again.
Has there been any talk of multiplayer/co-op?
oh nevermind, just checked the first page. Silly me.
I would love one, though.
[QUOTE=MaikkiBoi;41952987]Has there been any talk of multiplayer/co-op?
oh nevermind, just checked the first page. Silly me.
I would love one, though.[/QUOTE]
If you want multiplayer, there [I]is[/I] Verdun. Beta's out for free. Speaking of which, someone should make a thread for it.
Back ontopic, I think this will be like mount & blade, in the sense that the graphics are sub-par, but the gameplay itself is engaging.
If i could, i would give them the $0.02 in my steam wallet. I mean, what the fuck else am i gonna do with it?
Verdun's kind of eh. It feels too much like Call of Duty 2 and it's waaaay too arcade-y for me.
Some of the people on the English forums for The Trench are so naive and stupid as to how game development works and why it had to be delayed.
These are the people that need to curse every second word, and are calling it a scam.
Last I checked scammers don't offer refunds.
This is the condescending post I finally made. Do you think I got the message across?
[quote=me]All right, I'll bite. I'll even use pictures so you can comprehend it all.
[img]http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv207/bloodmoonprincess/gifs/tumblr_lrofd0jeFJ1qf88uf.gif[/img]
[quote="jacob" post=2143]You're all in denial. Have you guys seen ONE image of this fucking game that looks anything like game play? The video with the tutorial looks nothing like a game, besides the fact that a model of a gun is placed infront of the camera. [/quote]
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cjzaEp0P4iU/UNo6-ok33_I/AAAAAAAABG8/7ioYvBs-iI0/s400/BEAN-say-what.jpg[/img]
I'll just link you to the galleries, instead of posting every picture here.
Every single one of those screenshots is from ingame. Don't give me your crap. There are a few posed shots, yes. But that is to show off equipment and models. Same with the rats one.
On top of all that, we have the animation videos on moddb/indiedb, we're getting new videos by the end of this month, and the assorted screenshots around the French website and forums.
[url]http://www.thetrench1916.com/index.php?view=article&id=20[/url]
[url]http://www.thetrench1916.com/index.php?view=article&id=19[/url]
[url]http://www.thetrench1916.com/index.php?view=article&id=18[/url]
[quote="jacob" post=2143]How was this game expected to be done BEFORE NOVEMBER 11, 2011 IF ITS NOW FUCKING AUGUST 24, 2013? How the fuck could they be so off? [/quote]
You want to know why it's taken so long? Let me walk you through this, slowly, one more time.
Cyril, [i]one man[/i] is making this game. Coding, animating, modeling, mapping, texturing, etc... [b][i]The job of a 200+ dev team done by one man[/i][/b]. All of it. The burden is his to bare.
Many things came up in the period of 2010 to 2011. an Engine transition, and the fact Cyril no longer could work on the game full time. He has a job and a life to contend with. Moving into 2012 they were hoping for a good year in terms of working on the game and getting a release.
Garagegames released an updated (and much better version) of the T3D engine, which is what The Trench runs on. So more engine transition, and on top of that a lot more work to be done because the game expanded. Deadlines are not given for a simple reason of one) Disappointing people,
and two) overestimation of ones own skill.
Early in this year Cyril realized he was running into issues with memory, meaning you would have to have 16 gigs of RAM to run it all on one map. Which leads us to now. So he decided to split the map into zones, ala STALKER. The size of these regions doubled, and Cyril needed to fill these with things to do so it wasn't empty or not fulfilling.
However, Cyril over estimated himself a bit and realized that he really would not have it done for the 24th. On top of that his launcher isn't working 100%, Mitch is still having a bit of trouble with his for The Great War mod, launchers can be tricky to get working 100%.
[b][i][u]TL;DR VERSION: GAME DEVELOPMENT ISN'T STATIC AND IS VERY FLUID. THINGS CHANGE QUICKLY, PEOPLE OVERESTIMATE THEMSELVES AND THEIR DEADLINES. THIS ISN'T WRITING A PAPER, THIS IS MAKING AN ENTIRE, WORKING VIDEO GAME.[/u][/i][/b]
[quote="jacob" post=2143]Guaranteed this site will mysteriously go offline one day as with all of the money they made with pre-orders.[/quote]
[img]http://www.plognark.com/Art/Sketches/Blogsketches/2008/thestupiditburns.jpg[/img]
It really does burn. Scams don't last 3+ years. Scams don't have someone talking with them directly on a daily basis, and scammers don't voice their remorse about not getting the game out when they said they were. Scammers don't offer refunds. Try a little harder next time.
Cyril is really disappointed in himself that he couldn't get it done for the 24th. He realizes he has disappointed many, but that is only fueling his fire to finish the game. He knows he needs to, and he wants to. He and Frederick T. have always wanted to make a video game together, ever since they were children. He wants this done, it's his baby and he's going to have it done right. And that's on his terms, [b][i][u]NOT[/u][/i][/b] your terms.
[img]http://www.empowernetwork.com/jessicasalas/files/2013/01/have-a-nice-day-1007x1024.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
[QUOTE=bdd458;41952869]Except Duke Nukem forever. Never again.[/QUOTE]
They kept changing teams and eventually did end up rushing some shit out.
So do you know, Mr. Inside Scoop, how long the three ingame days before the assault is in actual time?
I would Think either a few Real-time hours, or there's some sort of prompt/activation/button/whatever-the-fuck.
For the latter, it could be just laying down to sleep in your cot. In order to give you time to explore, that would be for easy mode, i imagine.
The former would be for normal mode. Giving you a sense of urgency to [I]hurry the fuck up[/I] before the Huns start climbing over the top whooping and hollering.
[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;41956504]So do you know, Mr. Inside Scoop, how long the three ingame days before the assault is in actual time?[/QUOTE]
A while back Cyril had stated he was aiming for about 4 hours - two for the day and two for the night. However, judging from some more recent posts it has been scaled back to two hours with about an hour for both, I'll ask for an updated answer :)
I was thinking it would be really cool if limited ammunition would be a big part of this game. Imagine noticing the trench's ammunition reserves are getting low after the recent battle and having to crawl in the black of night into No Man's Land, grabbing whatever ammo from dead Germans and Frenchmen alike while desperately hoping a kraut sniper doesn't notices your moving shadow. It would be also a way of making the machine gun less viable as you know getting too liberal with shooting means less ammunition the next battle. It's probably not that realistic for a trench to have not enough ammunition as they would have been well supplied but would make interesting gameplay none the less. Also, the trench gun is going to be amazing in this game.
[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;41958257]I was thinking it would be really cool if limited ammunition would be a big part of this game. Imagine noticing the trench's ammunition reserves are getting low after the recent battle and having to crawl in the black of night into No Man's Land, grabbing whatever ammo from dead Germans and Frenchmen alike while desperately hoping a kraut sniper notices your moving shadow. It would be also a way of making the machine gun less viable as you know getting too liberal with shooting means less ammunition the next battle. It's probably not that realistic for a trench to have not enough ammunition as they would have been well supplied but would make interesting gameplay none the less. Also, the trench gun is going to be amazing in this game.[/QUOTE]
A major challenge for assaulting infantry, once an enemy trench section was captured and re-oriented for forward defense (as in, when they got there the firesteps were facing the wrong way and had to be redug, the surrounding trenches and comms trenches to rearward lines had to be blocked off with wire and debris so enemy infantry had to advance over the parapet to recapture, things like that) was that ammunition had to be brought up over no man's land once more to hold the position against enemy counter attacks, the ammo bearers still being exposed to fire from uncaptured areas and the rearward lines.
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