Hey, it's not like Oculus banned non-developers from using the DK2. They advise against it, but they also realize that people are going to buy it anyway. Stop acting like it's such a crime.
[QUOTE=woolio1;45491398]Hey, it's not like Oculus banned non-developers from using the DK2. They advise against it, but they also realize that people are going to buy it anyway. Stop acting like it's such a crime.[/QUOTE]
don't be so defensive, it's not a crime, just kinda stupid
it's detrimental to a lot of small time developers who really want to get their hands on this stuff to work on their projects but didn't think to order in the first 10 minutes of pre-orders. Resellers and dumb impulse buyers set back the DK1 shipments by MONTHS, it was absurd. I'm glad they at least dealt with a chunk of the reselling on this batch
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;45487177]I really don't know why so many NON-DEVS are buying dk2[/QUOTE]
seems pretty clear-cut to me
would you like me to explain it or are you just reiterating this non-issue
[QUOTE=dai;45491445]it's detrimental to a lot of small time developers who really want to get their hands on this stuff to work on their projects but didn't think to order in the first 10 minutes of pre-orders. Resellers and dumb impulse buyers set back the DK1 shipments by MONTHS, it was absurd. I'm glad they at least dealt with a chunk of the reselling on this batch[/QUOTE]
Let's not forget that the entire Oculus project was launched primarily by non-developers, gamers specifically, buying into the concept because they thought VR was cool. Without the non-developers, Oculus wouldn't have gotten off the ground and into the market nearly as fast as it has.
We shouldn't really be upset, then, that non-developers are buying into Oculus now, when they launched their entire campaign with that in mind.
If they wanted this to be a closed-off, in-development thing, they would do what everybody else does. Venture capitalists, private funding, publisher ties, and closed distribution of the hardware. Since they haven't done that, we're free to assume (and rightly so) that they want some members of the public to buy and use this stuff this early. Wouldn't have put it on Kickstarter otherwise.
I agree that resellers are (or rather were) an issue but throwing them into the same category as genuine users is unfair
I appreciate where it came from, but people bought into the concept that there'd be a finished model ready for the market. The devkits are a great bonus, but they are not the intent of the project, they're a tool for developers to create content and give feedback on the units so they will both be well tuned to the public's desires, and there will be tons of content readily available to use CV's on when it releases.
by all means if you're an enthusiast, that's great, but I've had numerous people comment when they tried my own device that they bought one out of curiosity but didn't realize they actually had to do things to make it work. I really want to know how many units were bought by people just for the prestige, bragging rights, or to resell during the hype phase
hell, the units I got at work were originally bought by my elderly office building manager for that explicit reason. He ordered SIX DK1's simply because the perk said he'd get Luckey's signature with them. He's got units just hanging out somewhere because why the fuck not. My own order didn't show up til two months after he brought those in, so I kept the two lent ones and handed over the new.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;45491325]they could... wait? or use a dk1[/QUOTE]
If everyone simply waited there would barely be a community in it's current form and shape, let alone one to test and give feedback to the developers (Oculus VR Share was developed for this reason). The hype and momentum the entire VR thing has gained from ordinary people playing and showcasing DK1 stuff has helped launch many projects, whether it's been kickstarters for VR peripherals or games.
On another note, my two DK2 orders are now updated as Processed. Orders placed 9:34 and 9:37 respectively to Sweden.
[QUOTE=dai;45491793]I appreciate where it came from, but people bought into the concept that there'd be a finished model ready for the market. The devkits are a great bonus, but they are not the intent of the project, they're a tool for developers to create content and give feedback on the units so they will both be well tuned to the public's desires, and there will be tons of content readily available to use CV's on when it releases.
by all means if you're an enthusiast, that's great, but I've had numerous people comment when they tried my own device that they bought one out of curiosity but didn't realize they actually had to do things to make it work. I really want to know how many units were bought by people just for the prestige, bragging rights, or to resell during the hype phase
hell, the units I got at work were originally bought by my elderly office building manager for that explicit reason. He ordered SIX DK1's simply because the perk said he'd get Luckey's signature with them. He's got units just hanging out somewhere because why the fuck not. My own order didn't show up til two months after he brought those in, so I kept the two lent ones and handed over the new.[/QUOTE]
Again, though, people didn't buy into the concept because there would be a finished product. Otherwise, people would have gone straight for the "donations only" tiers on Kickstarter. However, that's very clearly not where the money went. A significant majority of the Kickstarter backers donated at or above the level required to get a dev kit. A lot of the discourse on the Reddit and elsewhere during the Kickstarter phase even called it "buying" a dev kit. Clearly, there's some disconnect between the reality and the rhetoric, but that's how things happened.
Again, if Oculus didn't want the general public to have "developer kits," they wouldn't have put them up for sale. That's my biggest issue with this, is that they said throughout it all "Don't buy a developer kit if you're not a developer," while keeping what was essentially a store page open, allowing non-developers to buy those same developer kits.
It's a lot like the Early Access model Steam's using now, if you think about it. Same rhetoric, same "Don't buy this if you don't like an unfinished product," while selling that same unfinished product. People aren't buying that stuff because they want the end product sometime down the line. They're buying it now because they want it now. And Oculus isn't doing anything to stop them.
Let's be realistic here. Oculus could have done the same thing every other Kickstarter product does: Promise the first consumer market product to the backers. By distributing the developer kits, however, they fell into the same trap of misrepresentation that every other Early Access whatever does. They sold a developer kit like Notch sold an Alpha, and became incredibly wealthy because of it.
I'm just drawing parallels where appropriate, but I find it truly odd that they chose the route they did when they knew it would cause these sorts of issues. If they truly didn't want the public buying the DK2, they wouldn't just put a warning on their store page. They would actively prevent them from buying the dang thing, like every other hardware developer does before the consumer release. Make no mistake, Oculus [B]WANTED[/B] these things to be out there. They wanted evangelists buying them and spreading the word, and they wanted people to try out the tech in its early stages. If they truly didn't, then they've done the absolute worst job of it that they could have done.
If you don't want to believe me, consider that there were only 9,255 backers on Kickstarter. And then look at this.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5iswGNo.png[/IMG]
(The average donation per backer was also $255. These statistics make it very, very clear that a majority of the backers did so to buy a developer kit. Nothing more.)
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;45491325]they could... wait? or use a dk1[/QUOTE]
Bugger that, I waited specifically for the dk2 so I could get a 1080p experience. I don't understand how people expect the games these developers are making to get tested properly without consumers to actually play them? like do you expect the devs to spend all their time playtesting their game? not saying theres anything wrong with that but I think it's largely beneficial for consumers to buy the Devkit.
Don't forget oculus is getting a good amount of money for this, not including facebooks, which can go towards having more to ship next month and the month after. This won't be a problem forever.
Honestly I just bought the DK2 to play the shit out of oculus rift enabled games, yeah, MAYBE I deprived some guy of an oculus rift who MIGHT be a developer but that shit is just unfortunate and expected with a piece of tech like this.
[editline]25th July 2014[/editline]
+ vr porn
[B]"You may use the headset to develop commercial software intended solely for use with the headset, provided that you may only distribute such software via distribution channels that have been approved by Oculus in writing."[/B]
[IMG]http://puu.sh/aq0jo/f045d63b12.png[/IMG]
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2bnjad/noticed_this_from_the_license_agreement_in_the/[/url]
well just call your software "vr compatible" (generic vr) and problem solved
but yeah i think people's concerns about a facebook platform might turn out to be justified...
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;45492404]well just call your software "vr compatible" (generic vr) and problem solved
but yeah i think people's concerns about a facebook platform might turn out to be justified...[/QUOTE]
I'm going to assume this means "You can distribute your commercial software through a list of retailers we've put together on our site/license/developer portal. Among these are Steam, Facebook, (insert Oculus distribution label here), and partnering brick and mortar stores. If you would like to distribute a game through your own website or distribution channels, please contact us, and offer very large sums of money."
EDIT: A lot of the Reddit discussion seems to point to it being very similar to the Nintendo Seal of Quality, or Sony's "Sony Approved" thingum. Basically, they seem to think that, if you want to make something strictly for the Oculus product, and you want to brand it and advertise as being strictly for the Oculus product, you have to deliver your product through approved channels.
This shouldn't lock out Morpheus-Oculus cross-platforms, shouldn't lock out "VR compatible" titles, shouldn't create too much of a walled garden... But you never know. Let's not freak out yet, though.
[quote]Even if your assumed interpretation of our terms and conditions was actually correct, note that it is not a criminal offense to break terms and conditions.[/quote]
- palmer
it might be though (under computer fraud and abuse act) i think. its not that clear since its only been brought up like one in a cyber bullying case and even then another "computer" (in that case myspace's servers) might need to be involved
who knows its a gray area and shouldn't be in the fucking ToS in the first place
[editline]24th July 2014[/editline]
even based off what you said it could mean "official oculus / facebook store that all oculus approved software must go through". though i guess software doesn't need to be oculus approved in that case
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;45492470]- palmer
it might be though (under computer fraud and abuse act) i think. its not that clear since its only been brought up like one in a cyber bullying case and even then another "computer" (in that case myspace's servers) might need to be involved
who knows its a gray area and shouldn't be in the fucking ToS in the first place
[editline]24th July 2014[/editline]
even based off what you said it could mean "official oculus / facebook store that all oculus approved software must go through". though i guess software doesn't need to be oculus approved in that case[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, it absolutely could, and I do wonder if they're going to use this to create a veritable "Origin for Oculus." That wouldn't necessarily be a terrible thing, and I can entirely understand their rationale for wanting all Oculus-approved titles in one place for the customer, but it's a little something to be leery of.
Granted, if they try to crack down on people not selling through their store, they'll have hell to pay. And more. I think they know that, and I can't imagine them wanting to basically replay the early days of Origin, but we'll just have to see what the company has to say. Hopefully they can put something out soon, diffuse this situation before it starts.
(I'd also like to point out that most EULAs for game development environments (Unity, Unreal, Cryengine) have a very similar clause. It usually lists the authorized distribution methods immediately after, and they're usually pretty open, but I'm surprised Oculus hasn't done this. I wonder if it's an oversight, or if they're using it for something.)
[B]Honestly, I'm more worried about the "True Black Smearing."[/B]
[t]http://puu.sh/aqkGO/227f6566c7.png[/t]
so close i can taste it
[QUOTE=Beacon;45494525][t]http://puu.sh/aqkGO/227f6566c7.png[/t]
so close i can taste it[/QUOTE]
I demand pictures with you laying half naked with the box in your hands while wearing the rift.
[QUOTE=RaptorBlackz;45494547]I demand pictures with you laying half naked with the box in your hands while wearing the rift.[/QUOTE]
disturbing
[QUOTE=Beacon;45494809]disturbing[/QUOTE]
but yet appropriate for the occasion.
continue.
No email yet, BUT, a status change on my order page:
[quote]Status: PROCESSING: Your order has been checked out for shipping and will be shipped in the next batch. We'll send you a notification once it's shipped.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Beacon;45494809]disturbing[/QUOTE]
do it anyway and send them this way
Fuck I wished I had ordered one too......
[QUOTE=Clavus;45495179]No email yet, BUT, a status change on my order page:[/QUOTE]When did you order for reference?
still no delivery today, either i'm at the back end of the delivery driver's route or he's stolen my rift
[QUOTE=dije;45495759]When did you order for reference?[/QUOTE]
10:05 AM.
[QUOTE=Beacon;45495871]still no delivery today, either i'm at the back end of the delivery driver's route or he's stolen my rift[/QUOTE]
Presume the latter. Bring out the big guns.
it's finally arrived!
one thing though... the front panel cover that covers the USB/input on the front of the headset is missing
like, it didn't come with one
get pictures
We need pics of it.
[QUOTE=NightmareX91;45496640]Presume the latter. Bring out the big guns.[/QUOTE]
Avatar fits perfectly with that statement.
More on topic, been reading around because I've had no email yet, turns out no one in Australia or New Zealand has gotten any emails or updates yet. Looks like I'll be waiting a while for mine to arrive then.
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