Oculus Rift Thread: Consumer release months away - Games

[QUOTE=krix;46906192]Such sass :v: You're right though, I didn't really notice you explicitly stated that it's only bad if it has nothing to offer beside this one feature. That's the key point that caused this misunderstanding.[/QUOTE] yeah, I didn't word my initial post very well, my bad.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;46906147]We're talking about a horror game that listens to mic input here. If that feature is the only thing that makes the game worth-while, it's a proof of concept, it shouldn't be considered a full fledged video game. Imagine if you played the Don't Let Go demo without headphones. Doesn't really become all that great after that. Because it's a proof of concept and its main feature was 3D sound. [/QUOTE] But then again, if Just Dance didn't have the dance movement-mechanic and you could also play it by just pressing buttons, would that game be fun? Maybe it's a proof of concept now, but it could definitely evolve into a standard in that specific genre (I'm not saying it will, I think that too many people won't be able or willing to use the mic.) I get that you want games to still be playable/fun without such mechanics, but sometimes those mechanics become new standards and/or make a game special.

I'd rather they not include a mic or headphones to keep the cost down. At the very least offer a model without them. I'm sure the included ones wouldn't be very good either (too keep the costs down!). Plus microphones and headphones are extremely common and easy for consumers to get access to, a developer should be able to assume a user has one even if the rift did not ship with one. Headphones and microphones aren't exclusive technologies to the oculus rift where as the kinect and playstation eye are. However we saw a backlash with the mandatory kinect because it increased the price of the unit while most games didn't utilize them at all.

[QUOTE=Flumbooze;46906288]But then again, if Just Dance didn't have the dance movement-mechanic and you could also play it by just pressing buttons, would that game be fun? Maybe it's a proof of concept now, but it could definitely evolve into a standard in that specific genre (I'm not saying it will, I think that too many people won't be able or willing to use the mic.) I get that you want games to still be playable/fun without such mechanics, but sometimes those mechanics become new standards and/or make a game special.[/QUOTE] Your first statement is just a poor comparison. Your second statement about a proof of concept eventually evolving into a standard mechanic for a genre is something I wholly agree with and haven't said anything to the contrary. Your third statement is really vague and I agree with quite a few things that you could relate to it, but I'm specifically talking about mic usage in a horror game. You can't honestly tell me a game in which you sit still in a room and have to be quiet could be considered more than a proof of concept. That would be the same idea as 'don't let go' but instead of holding a key you're holding your breath. Yeah it would be fun a few times, and for showing friends. but nothing beyond that. Now if you could walk and there were some other survival mechanic such as having to hide, then the game wouldn't need a mic and would be potentially fun for a VR demo because it doesn't rely on something that not everyone use for one reason or another.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46906391]I'd rather they not include a mic or headphones to keep the cost down. At the very least offer a model without them. I'm sure the included ones wouldn't be very good either (too keep the costs down!). Plus microphones and headphones are extremely common and easy for consumers to get access to, a developer should be able to assume a user has one even if the rift did not ship with one. Headphones and microphones aren't exclusive technologies to the oculus rift where as the kinect and playstation eye are. However we saw a backlash with the mandatory kinect because it increased the price of the unit while most games didn't utilize them at all.[/QUOTE] The thing with the mic is that it's super cheap and easy to implement. It won't increase the final price noticeably at all. Headphones might though and I understand that, but mic, no way, it's probably $5-10 or less.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46906391]I'd rather they not include a mic or headphones to keep the cost down. At the very least offer a model without them. I'm sure the included ones wouldn't be very good either (too keep the costs down!). Plus microphones and headphones are extremely common and easy for consumers to get access to, a developer should be able to assume a user has one even if the rift did not ship with one. Headphones and microphones aren't exclusive technologies to the oculus rift where as the kinect and playstation eye are. However we saw a backlash with the mandatory kinect because it increased the price of the unit while most games didn't utilize them at all.[/QUOTE] I think the point of including headphones is to include virtual 3D sound, which some headphones might not support.

What? 3d sound would be 100% software side wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. It depends how fancy the Oculus headphones get. If they are those crazy 7.1 headphones then that's a very big difference from the standard stereo. You can do 3D sound the way Oculus talks about it without 7.1, but surround sound would be a lot more accurate in terms of positioning.

Oculus already stated the technology is in the drivers. And you can get 7.1 surround sound with any set of stereo headphones now so them shelling out the money to make the stock Oculus headphones 7.1 would be redundant.

[QUOTE=Stephen427sf;46905797][url]http://polyraw.com/OCULUS/mobias.html[/url] Guys you really need to check this UE4 expierence out! The textures may look low res but everything has a very real feel to it. It has a standard fly over expierence but I recommend you definetly try with xbox controller and explore the land. It has more than you might think it has. It really had me in awe.[/QUOTE] That was pretty nice. Makes me excited for full-fledged RPGs in VR. Still have this issue with UE4 though where the darker areas in the game are nearly pitch black when viewed in the Rift. Wish they'd fix that.

The audio work that they've done so far focuses on 3d audio using simulations of binaural audio. [video=youtube;lsXh5EtSXDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsXh5EtSXDs[/video] [video=youtube;XZxBsxeYp4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxBsxeYp4s[/video] [video=youtube;3nSc1DQKzhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nSc1DQKzhg[/video] Most methods just use a hrtf or a crossover and some slight reverb, however Oculus are focused on taking it a step forward and having the environment reverb be accurate to the scene to make sure the illusion is all complete. They include the headphone to make sure everyone uses headphones that are competent and balanced enough for the illusion to be heard for everyone and to prevent people with $2 earphones wondering why everything sounds weird. I'm a massive enthusiast for this kind of stuff so I'm really excited to see it once it's all done. An integrated microphone would be good too, however it's uses would be more limited than the headphones.

[QUOTE=Clavus;46906805]That was pretty nice. Makes me excited for full-fledged RPGs in VR. Still have this issue with UE4 though where the darker areas in the game are nearly pitch black when viewed in the Rift. Wish they'd fix that.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure 'true blacks' are supposed to be a feature aren't they?

[QUOTE=Beacon;46907023]Pretty sure 'true blacks' are supposed to be a feature aren't they?[/QUOTE] he could mean that the screen was too dark in general and somewhat dark areas were getting too dark

[QUOTE=Stephen427sf;46905797][url]http://polyraw.com/OCULUS/mobias.html[/url] Guys you really need to check this UE4 expierence out! The textures may look low res but everything has a very real feel to it. It has a standard fly over expierence but I recommend you definetly try with xbox controller and explore the land. It has more than you might think it has. It really had me in awe.[/QUOTE] Spent an hour downloading it just to find that it doesn't even attempt to support direct mode. Why is that so much to ask?

[QUOTE=bitches;46909019]Spent an hour downloading it just to find that it doesn't even attempt to support direct mode. Why is that so much to ask?[/QUOTE] It worked for me first time althought it was in a small window. I rarely got issues with direct mode.

[QUOTE=Beacon;46907023]Pretty sure 'true blacks' are supposed to be a feature aren't they?[/QUOTE] Nah it's an issue with UE4 it seems. I've had it with the Lava coaster demo too (and somehow managed to fix it back then but don't remember how). Shadowy areas are just turned into a black blob. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=bitches;46909019]Spent an hour downloading it just to find that it doesn't even attempt to support direct mode. Why is that so much to ask?[/QUOTE] Direct mode actually worked fine for me with this demo. Extended mode wasn't as stable though (screen goes black, did work after some fiddling / dragging windows around, then stopped working again). Really hope they sort these issues out with the coming SDK releases.

UE4 uses some weird filter stuff to try to get around the black smearing. I wonder if that's causing it?

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46906391]I'd rather they not include a mic or headphones to keep the cost down. At the very least offer a model without them. I'm sure the included ones wouldn't be very good either (too keep the costs down!). Plus microphones and headphones are extremely common and easy for consumers to get access to, a developer should be able to assume a user has one even if the rift did not ship with one. Headphones and microphones aren't exclusive technologies to the oculus rift where as the kinect and playstation eye are. However we saw a backlash with the mandatory kinect because it increased the price of the unit while most games didn't utilize them at all.[/QUOTE] Microphones are pretty cheap anyway and I think it's perfectly fine to put in a microphone for two reasons. You give everyone who buys the Oculus a chance to use these features and you push developers slightly to actually use the microphone in their games. Because even though mics and heaphones are easy to get, not a lot of people want to make that extra cost and developers will develop their games assuming that a good amount of people won't be able to use the mic function, which would be devastating for this particular mechanic. [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;46906415]Your first statement is just a poor comparison. Your second statement about a proof of concept eventually evolving into a standard mechanic for a genre is something I wholly agree with and haven't said anything to the contrary. Your third statement is really vague and I agree with quite a few things that you could relate to it, but I'm specifically talking about mic usage in a horror game. You can't honestly tell me a game in which you sit still in a room and have to be quiet could be considered more than a proof of concept. That would be the same idea as 'don't let go' but instead of holding a key you're holding your breath. Yeah it would be fun a few times, and for showing friends. but nothing beyond that. Now if you could walk and there were some other survival mechanic such as having to hide, then the game wouldn't need a mic and would be potentially fun for a VR demo because it doesn't rely on something that not everyone use for one reason or another.[/QUOTE] Maybe I was a bit quick to judge, I really thought you were talking about games in general. I fully agree with your post.

If you haven't bought BlazeRush and played it on the Rift, you've gotta try it. So much fun, works perfectly and it's just superb implementation. A real lesson to other devs.

[QUOTE=Clavus;46910400]Direct mode actually worked fine for me with this demo. Extended mode wasn't as stable though (screen goes black, did work after some fiddling / dragging windows around, then stopped working again).[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? It has no video options, and no direct to rift executable. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Beacon;46911684]If you haven't bought BlazeRush and played it on the Rift, you've gotta try it. So much fun, works perfectly and it's just superb implementation. A real lesson to other devs.[/QUOTE] Does it have direct mode? [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] These steam devs really need to learn to add demos for their rift games. Too experimental, not worth the risk to see if the game functions right.

[QUOTE=bitches;46912492]What are you talking about? It has no video options, and no direct to rift executable. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] Does it have direct mode? [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] These steam devs really need to learn to add demos for their rift games. Too experimental, not worth the risk to see if the game functions right.[/QUOTE] It's UE4. You open the game, hit Alt+Enter, and it shows up on your Rift. DirectToRift execs are for Unity apps. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] Provided your particular setup doesn't have issues with this particular Oculus SDK with this particular engine / app in direct mode of course. But it's supposed to work.

[url]http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/12/oculus-cofounder-describes-ces-demo-and-what-comes-next-for-virtual-reality-interview/[/url] -Nate estimates CV1 price will be $300 or $400 (not $200-400 like the old info) -The hand tracking tech of 13th Lab and Nimble VR (the companies that Oculus bought) will likely not make it to CV1 -CV1 is hopefully releasing in 2015 (surprise)

[QUOTE=Orkel;46913205][url]http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/12/oculus-cofounder-describes-ces-demo-and-what-comes-next-for-virtual-reality-interview/[/url] -Nate estimates CV1 price will be $300 or $400 (not $200-400 like the old info) -The hand tracking tech of 13th Lab and Nimble VR (the companies that Oculus bought) will likely not make it to CV1 -CV1 is hopefully releasing in 2015 (surprise)[/QUOTE] His comment on Razer's OSVR initiative is interesting too: [quote]GamesBeat: Will you support Razer’s announcement of Open-Source Virtual Reality? Mitchell: We are not supporting that. That’s not an official stance. The first I heard about it is yesterday morning. I think I’d seen OSVR previously, but I didn’t know anything about Razer announcing a hacker development kit. It was all news to me. I sent it to Palmer and said, “Hey, have you seen this?” “Nope.” Overall, in terms of the specification, that’s the right way to go long term. In the short term, you need multiple VR headsets out there that are mature as far as feature set before that kind of thing is really warranted. To give an example that’s resonated in the past, we had different SDKs for mobile and PC internally. We don’t use the same specifications for our own systems internally. That’s because they’re so different. If you talk to Palmer, he’ll say that mobile is more like Vita, PC is more like PlayStation. We don’t have the same SDK for both. They’re different systems with different challenges and different features. Rather than have anyone slow down and try to align inside of Oculus, we have to go. We have to innovate. We want to keep moving. Spending a bunch of time trying to align–That’s true across the entire industry. I don’t know how they’re going to build an open specification for so many different input devices either. It seems like a hornet’s nest to me. In the long term, when the time is right for a specification, we’ll be there. But we’re still far away. We need a couple great headsets, a couple great input devices out there. You want to see Morpheus and the Rift and Gear VR come out. You want them to mature. As they all start to align over the next few years, that’s when a specification makes sense. In the meantime developers are targeting the lowest common denominator. They’re not leveraging all the features of the high-end headsets. It becomes a bad experience for everyone. It’ll end up poisoning the VR well for people. That’s not to say OSVR is all those things. But we want developers targeting our SDK — not to own the platform, but to leverage everything and do the integration right. That’s the only way you’ll be able to develop a great experience.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Orkel;46913205][url]http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/12/oculus-cofounder-describes-ces-demo-and-what-comes-next-for-virtual-reality-interview/[/url] -Nate estimates CV1 price will be $300 or $400 (not $200-400 like the old info) -The hand tracking tech of 13th Lab and Nimble VR (the companies that Oculus bought) will likely not make it to CV1 -CV1 is hopefully releasing in 2015 (surprise)[/QUOTE] He even said the hand tracking technology could possibly never be used for CV2 or even CV3

[QUOTE=Orkel;46913205][url]http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/12/oculus-cofounder-describes-ces-demo-and-what-comes-next-for-virtual-reality-interview/[/url] -Nate estimates CV1 price will be $300 or $400 (not $200-400 like the old info) -The hand tracking tech of 13th Lab and Nimble VR (the companies that Oculus bought) will likely not make it to CV1 -CV1 is hopefully releasing in 2015 (surprise)[/QUOTE] Damn, each $100 more CV1 costs is $100 less I can spend on a desktop.

[QUOTE=Clavus;46913180]It's UE4. You open the game, hit Alt+Enter, and it shows up on your Rift. DirectToRift execs are for Unity apps. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] Provided your particular setup doesn't have issues with this particular Oculus SDK with this particular engine / app in direct mode of course. But it's supposed to work.[/QUOTE] Silly me. Thanks!

From the sound of that interview, he was very hesitant to say CV1 for this year, I think we're looking at the back end of 2015 if we're really lucky, honestly. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] But that was a really good, in-depth interview with a lot of info.

[QUOTE=Beacon;46913354]From the sound of that interview, he was very hesitant to say CV1 for this year, I think we're looking at the back end of 2015 if we're really lucky, honestly. [editline]12th January 2015[/editline] But that was a really good, in-depth interview with a lot of info.[/QUOTE] I think the "on retail shelves" version of CV1 might be a while, because there is so much more front end that needs done for that to work out of the box beyond the hardware. However I feel like its going to be very possible for there to be a kind of "online only, hardware only" CV1 release this year. Something that only people who are already sold on VR would get (and wouldn't need all the front end stuff), while Oculus prepares the version that is supposed to sell VR to people who aren't sold on it yet.

[QUOTE=KorJax;46918153]I think the "on retail shelves" version of CV1 might be a while, because there is so much more front end that needs done for that to work out of the box beyond the hardware. However I feel like its going to be very possible for there to be a kind of "online only, hardware only" CV1 release this year. Something that only people who are already sold on VR would get (and wouldn't need all the front end stuff), while Oculus prepares the version that is supposed to sell VR to people who aren't sold on it yet.[/QUOTE] well he was saying they don't want another devkit or anything of the sort, and production is going to go full scale from the start so I don't think that's going to happen personally but I'm happy sitting here developing my dissertation on my DK2 so it doesn't bother me all that much

I'm in a class next semester where our project is going to be implementing something related to VR into skyrim. The professor mentioned Oculus Rift and Omni support and I'm pretty excited to work on that (even if it's already been done).