Space Engineers - Say goodbye to Starmade and Blockade runner. - Games

this thread really gets some awesome new members to facepunch

Hey Darth, do you know if there are any plans regarding attaching small blocks to large ones? I saw this on the community page [t]http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/720868005109887724/F28A56E273DADE2A57BC4467CD87A0D9427FDEDB/[/t] Looks amazing, but from what I've read it's supposedly really annoying to make, you have to wedge a small ship into a station somehow then build from that Being able to attach small blocks to large ones would make stuff like this so much easier to build, even if only for stations

[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;43182973]Hey Darth, do you know if there are any plans regarding attaching small blocks to large ones? I saw this on the community page [t]http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/720868005109887724/F28A56E273DADE2A57BC4467CD87A0D9427FDEDB/[/t] Looks amazing, but from what I've read it's supposedly really annoying to make, you have to wedge a small ship into a station somehow then build from that Being able to attach small blocks to large ones would make stuff like this so much easier to build, even if only for stations[/QUOTE] I'd like it because it would allow me to add more detailing to the outside of my ships.

I was taught minecraft by a 6-year-old girl on unicornkid's sandbox server. She also intruduced me to minecraft when it was in alpha. Coolest 6-year-old girl ever.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43182477]I still don't understand how this could alienate anyone either, it's just more features. If they don't want to use them, just don't. Adding more features isn't a bad thing.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, but that's dumb and ignorant. It does exactly that - it alienates anyone that doesn't use Wire from those that do. "Alienation" is exactly the thing that happens. Sure, you can go and play vanilla in single player, but that doesn't mean that 99% of all build servers won't be more or less wire exclusive. Same shit with forums, go to the GMOD WAYWO thread with pictures of vanilla stuff you built, you'll be super lucky if you don't get shunned or straight up banned for "threadshitting" or something. Sure, it doesn't take away from any of the core gameplay, but it does pretty much block you entirely from any kind of multiplayer building.

I remember going on a build server once. I made a plane. I got shot down by some guys wire automated gun turret.

[QUOTE=ViralHatred;43183489]I remember going on a build server once. I made a plane. I got shot down by some guys wire automated gun turret.[/QUOTE] I'm not disagreeing with the fact that omnipotence adds an unfair and generally unfun edge to competitive building. If you guys actually research the things you're attempting to ridicule, you'll learn that the biggest combat mod, ACF, out there in GMod has a specific set of rules that are against entity discovery on combatants.

[QUOTE=TaleGunner;43182753][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dSjSD2F.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1LAXDRa.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/jZiKUr8.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/870TzyG.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4JJG7Ld.png[/IMG] The Ace of Spades, a frigate. The images show the starboard side of the ship, the bridge, the cargo bay, the medical bay, and the reactors, respectively.[/QUOTE] The doors as windows! Beautifully done!

Since I've been banned for the past 3 days, but have been burgeoning with opinions that nobody cares about, my take on the wire bit: First of all they'd need to find a way to make it not-a-copy of Garry's Mod's mod, because despite the fact that it is just a mod, it's likely they have some kind of copyright set up like most major mod makers nowadays. So they'd likely do it through a "visual scripting" screen, with an AI/Computer core block that you interface with. Upon K'ing the interface with this block, I imagine there'd be a 2d plane on which people could set up basic logic scripts. So like wire chip based scripting, which is very easy to grasp if you've taken basic Algebra classes, but without chips that physically exist in the game. [U]A few problems with this[/U]: [I]many[/I] things would need to be pre-scripted and call-able if we want this to be accessible to all players without any background experience. EG: flying in general. Even for people who know what they're doing, scripting such things as simple as a scout robot or a radar would take an obscenely large amount of time for something that should be normal and present in the game for everyone. That sort of limits the amount of things that would be worth doing with wire in the first place. They might as well streamline the process and make things programmable, through a "screen" block or cockpits. I like the idea of buttons, control panels, action groups, etc, but really with the way Space Engineers is set up I don't think it would really benefit from an entirely open visual scripting platform, but instead as I said above: some streamlined programming system that can tie each element of the ship together somehow. Very related: I think it's really neat to see what people are doing with the barebones motors/landing gear and whatnot in this game, and I like to see that everyone is happy that the game will really be about who can build and innovate the best, but I don't like the prospect of the entire game being so entirely mechanical. For one, such crudely mechanical things are far larger than they need to be or should be given the scope of the game, but furthermore they're just not as reliable or robust as they really should be, especially due to the fragility of your ship in a multiplayer server. I want dynamic hangar door blocks, not weird motor monstrosities that don't actually seal anything and are HUGE. I want pistons that mesh perfectly with a ship, not motor contraptions with teeth to simulate a piston of the 1800s. I want legit turret balls/make-able turret rings, not big, sticklike motor things. I'd really like to see large ship missile racks that let you load missiles into physical tubes, but through a block handled static system. I want actual magnet blocks and cannon loading mechanisms drawing via tube from an ammo magazine, not gravity mass drivers. Etc etc. Again I find it [I]really[/I] cool what people can do with what we have to work with, but I hope the devs are pushing for official things like I've mentioned above. I only mention it because I'm seeing a proud culture of young MacGyvers popping up in here hoping that the full game will be full of improvised shenanigans.

One thing we have to note in this thread is the difference between basic wiremod and expression 2. I want something like wiremod in which I can 'wire' a motor on my ship to move on a button press, like a garage door, and then reset soon afterwords to it's previous position. As it stands currently it's a clutter of menus in order to do the same thing and it's never exact either. Something like expression 2 - something you guys are bringing up under the name of wiremod - seems a little too powerful in the current stage of the game. [editline]14th December 2013[/editline] In order to get back on topic though, I'm currently testing some non-euclidean geometry on my ships right now with some pretty fair success.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43184270] In order to get back on topic though, I'm currently testing some non-euclidean geometry on my ships right now with some pretty fair success.[/QUOTE] "Make your way to the forward control centre, it's inside-up of the main cargo bay, take a left at cthulu."

[QUOTE=blazingfly;43184388]"Make your way to the forward control centre, it's inside-up of the main cargo bay, take a left at cthulu."[/QUOTE] "Be sure not to go down the mobius stairwell, the last guy who tripped down there is still going."

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43184270]One thing we have to note in this thread is the difference between basic wiremod and expression 2. I want something like wiremod in which I can 'wire' a motor on my ship to move on a button press, like a garage door, and then reset soon afterwords to it's previous position. As it stands currently it's a clutter of menus in order to do the same thing and it's never exact either. Something like expression 2 - something you guys are bringing up under the name of wiremod - seems a little too powerful in the current stage of the game. [editline]14th December 2013[/editline] In order to get back on topic though, I'm currently testing some non-euclidean geometry on my ships right now with some pretty fair success.[/QUOTE] so wait, do you mean [I]literally[/I] non-Euclidean geometry, where it's just regular, perfectly mundane shapes that just happen to have funny angles or what? i'm not sure how you could get crazy R'lyeh geometries going down in this game, although i would love to see it (shortly before i tear my eyes out and bring about the doom of this Earth)

[quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/870TzyG.png[/img][/quote] of all things [I]of all things[/I]

[QUOTE=damnatus;43184522]of all things [I]of all things[/I][/QUOTE] People sure seem to like that window.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43184270] In order to get back on topic though, I'm currently testing some non-euclidean geometry on my ships right now with some pretty fair success.[/QUOTE] Are you sure you picked the right word for it :v:

I think there's a gulf of perspective here. The Wirers have a hard time seeing that some people have a tough time learning to wire, because there aren't any great tutorials. At the same time, the non-Wirers see coding as a 'dull arithmetic problem' and don't see being a skilled wirer or programmer as being impressive. Is that true, Mastahamma, Joazz, Viral? If you're apprehensive about seeing Wire in this game because you'll feel left out, I will personally teach you wiremod. I'm not joking. I get high off of other people's "Ah-ha" moments. I will literally sit in this game and teach you how to wire until my fingers You know what? Fuck it, let's learn Wiremod right now. Right here. I challenge you to try because I think you can do it. I'm not saying this because I think you're stupid if you can't wire. I genuinely, seriously believe that 1. Anyone can do it and 2. Nobody deserves to miss out on the awesome. :: Wiremod is writing out logic. Hard, right? WRONG! IT'S EASY! I PROMISE! HAVE MY FIRSTBORN IF I'M WRONG!!!! It's the process of converting bigger tasks into small little logic problems. A Gate is the same as a chip. It is the most basic wiremod component. It has "inputs" and "outputs". Inputs are what you give to the chip, outputs are what it gives back. Simple. In Wire, the number "1" means true, and "0" means false. Same goes for "On, Off," and "Go, Stop" and "Yes, No" and every single other thing like that. See? Not complicated! Fun! Every chip/gate has a rule that it applies to its inputs to get outputs. If A and B are your inputs, some examples look like this: - A wiremod "[B]ADD[/B]" gate's rule says "OUTPUT [B]A[/B] + [B]B[/B]." That's the only thing it does and it doesn't depend on anything else. - A wiremod "[B]Multiply[/B]" gate has a rule that says "Output [B]A[/B] * [B]B[/B]." - An "[B]AND[/B]" gate says [QUOTE]IF [B]A[/B] AND [B]B[/B] are both true, output "1" Otherwise, meaning if one or both are false, output "0"[/QUOTE] A seven segment decoder (A gate that takes a number, and then figures out which segments in a [URL="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/7_segment_display_labeled.svg/220px-7_segment_display_labeled.svg.png"]7-segment display[/URL] to light up) says [QUOTE]If Input = 0 { [B]A, B, C, D ,E ,F[/B] = 1} If Input = 1 {[B] B, C[/B] = 1} #And so on, for every number. #Look at the seven segment display I linked to. If you input "0" (As a number), then you light up all of the segments ([B]A,B,C,D,E,F[/B]) on the rim of the display to make a 0 shape. #If you input a "1", it sets only [B]B[/B] and [B]C[/B] to "1" (Which, remember, is the same as "On") #No magic involved. [/QUOTE] See how that works? So, I can input 1 and 3 to an "[B]ADD[/B]" gate, and then wire it's [B]OUTPUT [/B]to a seven segment decoder. The decoder will make the lights needed to make a "4" turn on. Now, what if I wanted to make a door that only opens if the pilot's seat is empty AND a button is pressed? The logical statement is [QUOTE]DoorMotorOn = Seat_Empty AND Button_Pressed [/QUOTE] Doesn't that make a lot of sense? AHHH!!! THAT LOOKS LIKE PROGRAMMING! YES! Wiremod is programming in blocks. But that's okay, don't worry. Daddy will take care of you. We don't have to write code. We can wire gates together. Where A and B are the inputs to an AND gate: We wire the chair's output (I assume the chair outputs 'occupied', Wire chairs did) to [B]A[/B], and the button output (Remember, it outputs "1" it's on) to [B]B[/B], and the AND's [B]output[/B] to the motor. So the door motor will only turn on when both buttons are pressed. Does that make any sense? An "[I]Expression[/I]" gate is like all of these, except that the player can write their own instructions for what to input and output instead of having to use already existing gates. It's the same damn thing. The controversy arises when people associate the name "Expression" with "All-knowing, all-seeing, magical death machine" because that was a small subset of its capabilities in Gmod. Every car in the last ten years, and every modern spacecraft, plane, and even stoplight has a small device called a "Programmable Logic Controller" which is an expression gate in real life. So it's certainly not unrealistic. Note: This [I]isn't[/I] really a gross simplification. If you get this, you can wire. If you read this twice and still don't get it, ask questions and I will answer them until you can wire. Seriously, PM me or add me on steam. Also note: If you have basic logic, addition, negation and a time delay, you can construct anything else. In fact, you can build an entire computer with only "AND" gates. So do you see why so many people like wire? You can build things that would be frustrating and tedious to build mechanically. People who like wire aren't just lazy - there's a very good reason it's almost universal in GMod. Final Note: In SpaceWire, you wouldn't have to solve differential equations to steer your ship. You'd be able to hook directly into your ships default controls and tell it to roll 12 degrees starboard or whatever.

Thank you. People still are going to call you dumb and say that you don't see it from their point of view because Facepunch. That's essentially what I've been saying all the time, though I'd be a big fan of a text-based PLC I'm beginning to think that people couldn't even scrap together what PLC even stood for judging by the responses.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;43184270]In order to get back on topic though, I'm currently testing some non-euclidean geometry on my ships right now with some pretty fair success.[/QUOTE]i need to see this

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;43184892] I'm beginning to think that people couldn't even scrap together what PLC even stood for judging by the responses.[/QUOTE] Wow you're so above them, so smart. Again, we want logic, but we don't want, to put it simply, "look at this awesome thing I programmed", we want "look at this awesome thing I built" instead.

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;43184892] I'm beginning to think that people couldn't even scrap together what PLC even stood for judging by the responses.[/QUOTE] Hey, fuck off. I'm studying automation engineering, and work with PLCs daily. Thinking anyone not involved would understand it without already applying it to solve a problem is a pretty stupid assumption.

Can anyone else not make small ships for [I]their life[/I]? They look ugly no matter what I do.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;43186518]Can anyone else not make small ships for [I]their life[/I]? They look ugly no matter what I do.[/QUOTE] Fairly true. I'm sure there's a way, but I have about 6 versions of a single small ship design and not happy with any of them. I'll keep trying to get it right.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;43186518]Can anyone else not make small ships for [I]their life[/I]? They look ugly no matter what I do.[/QUOTE] I have two designs I actually like, my first and my second. The rest suck. Maybe except my Pelican, but even that's kind of boxy.

My only problem with implementing a system like wire-mod is that it's not something you can learn by playing the game. You need someone else to teach you, which is more characteristic of a simulator and not a simple, fun game like Space Engineers. When I play a video game (not a simulator) I want to be able to hit the ground running, and teach myself how to play it, learning how to get the competitive edge by coming up with new concepts with the tools I have laid out in-front of me, and not by having the code handed down to me by someone else. I don't want to have to hunt down tutorials online or read an instruction manual. That's something I'd do for a simulator. Requiring prerequisite training is something uncharacteristic for a video game.

[QUOTE=Everest;43186672]My only problem with implementing a system like wire-mod is that it's not something you can learn by playing the game. You need someone else to teach you, which is more characteristic of a simulator and not a simple, fun game like Space Engineers. When I play a video game (not a simulator) I want to be able to hit the ground running, and teach myself how to play it, learning how to get the competitive edge by coming up with new concepts with the tools I have laid out in-front of me, and not by having the code handed down to me by someone else. I don't want to have to hunt down tutorials online or read an instruction manual. That's something I'd do for a simulator.[/QUOTE] Good thing that most of the people asking for a wire mod-like system in Space Engineers wanted one that's visually distinct and easy to grasp, instead of lines of boring code like you described. Maybe something like placing a button, opening it with K, and having two boxes on the right: one labeled ON and one labeled OFF. Click and drag from the usual system list on the left into whatever box you want, then exit it and go.

[QUOTE=Fyhlen;43186708]Good thing that most of the people asking for a wire mod-like system in Space Engineers wanted one that's visually distinct and easy to grasp, instead of lines of boring code like you described. Maybe something like placing a button, opening it with K, and having two boxes on the right: one labeled ON and one labeled OFF. Click and drag from the usual system list on the left into whatever box you want, then exit it and go.[/QUOTE] I wasn't taking specifics, just a general idea of how future features should be implemented. If what you've described is something that can be learned without the aide of 3rd party resources, then I'm all for it.

apparently i had my own hatethread on the official forums nodachi/gentry breaker of dreams

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;43184892]Thank you. People still are going to call you dumb and say that you don't see it from their point of view because Facepunch. That's essentially what I've been saying all the time, though I'd be a big fan of a text-based PLC I'm beginning to think that people couldn't even scrap together what PLC even stood for judging by the responses.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I just want you to stop acting the way you do about this. I greatly appreciate bobsmit's efforts but you have just high horsed constantly. I want to learn wire and see some complicated cool shit in Space Engineers but I don't want to play the game in an environment where not knowing how to do it gets people like you acting the way you have been. Thank you bobsmit.

[QUOTE=Everest;43186772]I wasn't taking specifics, just a general idea of how future features should be implemented. If what you've described is something that can be learned without the aide of 3rd party resources, then I'm all for it.[/QUOTE] Quick job in Paint.net; is this fairly intuitive? [img]http://i.imgur.com/n9avVtm.jpg[/img] The leftmost On/Off buttons turns the button on and off, like any other part. The On/Off beside the Grav Gen would let you set which state you want the generator to be in when the button is pushed. For example, you could have two grav gens in a room - one on the floor, one on the ceiling. One gen would have it's On/Off match the Button's, the other would have it reversed. Hitting the button would turn the floor generator off and the ceiling one on, making you do a 180° flip. You could have Toggle buttons that only have one window and no options (because if a part is in the list, it's going to toggle), dials with as many windows as you want, etc.