Space Engineers - Say goodbye to Starmade and Blockade runner. - Games

[QUOTE=teh pirate;43346146]Also, I wouldn't mind some "unrealistic" weapons/etc in creative mode. Lasers and shit would be fun, high impulse thrusters, blocks with variable physical properties (friction, weight, bounciness, magnetism, HP) would be really useful for building things too.[/QUOTE] The only thing I have against lasers is that you wouldn't be able to see them in space so realistic aesthetics are impossible. It's not a huge deal though. More like a nagging thought.

[QUOTE=Aathma;43346055] Implying that we should hold back a game's potential for the sake of 5 year old lower middle range computers.[/QUOTE] It's going to lag even on current enthusiast level PCs, unless they simplify it. Maybe using a block as a single point will work (however I'm not sure how it will look visually, probably very weird) [editline]29th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=DeEz;43346201]also the gravity generator should be removed in the future[/QUOTE] aaand how to achieve artificial gravity then?

[QUOTE=DeEz;43346201]also the gravity generator should be removed in the future[/QUOTE] there are no other good solutions they've got to stay there is a dev blog entirely on why we have grav gens in this game.

The weapon systems in Star Shatter are a pretty good example of what I think would make alright weapons in this game. I don't think small ships should be able to harbor the laser cannons they do in SS but I think spinal-mounted laser cannons wouldn't be too far off by the time space engineers takes place.

[QUOTE=Aathma;43345395][video=youtube;1pgFXCnksJk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgFXCnksJk[/video][/QUOTE] [img]http://www.chuck-a-con.net/Serenityship.jpg[/img] "oh yeah i can TOTALLY make this" [img]http://puu.sh/62uen.jpg[/img] [B]FUCK[/B] i'm a square gray box in the wind watch how i soar~

[QUOTE=damnatus;43346221]It's going to lag even on current enthusiast level PCs, unless they simplify it. Maybe using a block as a single point will work (however I'm not sure how it will look visually, probably very weird) [editline]29th December 2013[/editline] aaand how to achieve artificial gravity then?[/QUOTE] The whole point is that it will be super simplified. They have volumetric asteroids that deform and you think that it's too intensive to add a couple values to a grid of points?

[QUOTE=DeEz;43346168]also idk what people mean with "shields" but reactive armor (both explosive and non-explosive) should definitely be added[/QUOTE] I think their calls for star wars shields is just a lack of creativity. You can make shields out of a plethora of other things that don't involve physically impossible situations. Combine a [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/USS_New_Orleans_(LPD-18)_launches_RIM-116_missile_2013.jpg/300px-USS_New_Orleans_(LPD-18)_launches_RIM-116_missile_2013.jpg]missile array set to intercept projectiles[/url] with a [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Phalanx_CIWS_night_fire.jpg]high ROF point defense CIWS[/url] (hate to beat the dead horse but people aren't getting it) and some spaced, disposable armor and you have a really cool, dynamic "shield" that can be poked, prodded, and destroyed in interesting ways, while not dulling combat down to a HP crunching sim that would invalidate the whole engineering aspect of "Space Engineers".

[QUOTE=Mbbird;43346355]I think their calls for star wars shields is just a lack of creativity. You can make shields out of a plethora of other things that don't involve physically impossible situations. Combine a [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/USS_New_Orleans_(LPD-18)_launches_RIM-116_missile_2013.jpg/300px-USS_New_Orleans_(LPD-18)_launches_RIM-116_missile_2013.jpg]missile array set to intercept projectiles[/url] with a [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Phalanx_CIWS_night_fire.jpg]high ROF point defense CIWS[/url] and some spaced, disposable armor and you have a really cool, dynamic "shield" that can be poked, prodded, and destroyed in interesting ways, while not dulling combat down to a HP crunching sim that would invalidate the whole engineering aspect of "Space Engineers".[/QUOTE] electromagnetic reactive armor is about as close to "shields" as you can get just put that in and everyone is happy

[QUOTE=StickyNade;43346309]The weapon systems in Star Shatter are a pretty good example of what I think would make alright weapons in this game. I don't think small ships should be able to harbor the laser cannons they do in SS but I think spinal-mounted laser cannons wouldn't be too far off by the time space engineers takes place.[/QUOTE] Oh Star Shatter, yeah that has almost a perfect blend of game sci-fi and realism. [editline]29th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=DeEz;43346392]electromagnetic reactive armor is about as close to "shields" as you can get just put that in and everyone is happy[/QUOTE] but we don't want to get "close to shields".

something I see could work for gravity instead of the current system would be to give all the blocks in the ship localized gravity. if one gravity generator is present on the ship, all blocks would be given gravity in a square above the block [IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/IFDkDD.png[/IMG] gray areas would be where the gravity would be

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43346396] but we don't want to get "close to shields".[/QUOTE] good thing I didn't say that everyone wanted "close to shields" reactive armor or some sort of armor is needed

[QUOTE=PredGD;43346412]something I see could work for gravity instead of the current system would be to give all the blocks in the ship localized gravity. if one gravity generator is present on the ship, all blocks would be given gravity in a square above the block [IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/IFDkDD.png[/IMG] gray areas would be where the gravity would be[/QUOTE] That's too many things for a computer to keep track of with optimization. ALL they need to do is have grav gens have a sphere of influence like they do now, but before applying the gravity to the player, check to see if the ship it's attached to is in the direction gravity should be pulling. If you're in the sphere of influence, but there's no ship below you, no gravity is applied. Problem solved. [editline]29th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=DeEz;43346428]good thing I didn't say that everyone wanted "close to shields" reactive armor or some sort of armor is needed[/QUOTE] Reactive armor doesn't work in space against the weapons we're using like you seem to think it does.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;43346439]That's too many things for a computer to keep track of with optimization. ALL they need to do is have grav gens have a sphere of influence like they do now, but before applying the gravity to the player, check to see if the ship it's attached to is in the direction gravity should be pulling. If there's no ship below you, no gravity is applied. Problem solved. [editline]29th December 2013[/editline] Reactive armor doesn't work in space against the weapons we're using like you seem to think it does.[/QUOTE] was thinking a system like that would solve the gigantic mess that happens when two ships with gravity generators get in proximity with each other

[QUOTE=damnatus;43345963]i'm sorry what everyone wants simulated bending/destruction of materials too bad you'll be getting 0.1 fps so it's a no no[/QUOTE]It's not impossible to come up with a heavily abstracted stress simulation. I'd at least like it if ships could be fractured randomly when receiving massive impulses (like slamming into another, bigger ship at top speed).

[QUOTE=PredGD;43346478]was thinking a system like that would solve the gigantic mess that happens when two ships with gravity generators get in proximity with each other[/QUOTE] Yeah if you want what you have you could just make it like how I described, then do a distance check for 1 or 2 blocks high. That'd be pretty much perfect imo.

I was thinking charged armor layers that vaporize/absorb incoming projectiles(rockets/missiles would be handled by a point defense system) would suit nicely. Additionally requiring them to use a shitload of energy so that they would be spaced around the ship over critical areas could serve as a shield system of sorts, and make their energy/material requirements such that fully coating a ship would be highly impractical.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;43346052]But you want stress calculations, the ability to bend whole ships, tear them in half with ropes... That is soft body simulation.[/QUOTE] Stress calculation does not demand anything to be soft bodied. That's silly.

[QUOTE=Squeegy Mackoy;43346708]Stress calculation does not demand anything to be soft bodied. That's silly.[/QUOTE] Not by itself but combined with the rest of it it does

Anybody made a swivel turret with motors yet? Like that of an Apache Heli. I'd like to know because my Heavy Bomber would like one of those :)

There better be better armor in the future, since one hit from a missile fucks shit up way too much.

[URL="https://twitter.com/CrAzzYmrBC/statuses/416519313118343168"]This is what Marek said on the topic of armor on twitter.[/URL]

[QUOTE=teh pirate;43346864]Not by itself but combined with the rest of it it does[/QUOTE] No, spring systems are not a requirement. You can still simulate all the stresses acting on a ship that remains completely static, then just break whichever blocks cross a threshold for tension/compression. Nothing has to actually move.

[QUOTE=Aathma;43346317] you think that it's too intensive to add a couple values to a grid of points?[/QUOTE] well yes all you need to make a hole in the asteroid is check once in a certain radius does it hit something you have to check [B]constantly[/B] if bending physics are present

[QUOTE=Squeegy Mackoy;43347333]No, spring systems are not a requirement. You can still simulate all the stresses acting on a ship that remains completely static, then just break whichever blocks cross a threshold for tension/compression. Nothing has to actually move.[/QUOTE] How do games like Bridge It do their stress calculation?

[QUOTE=Squeegy Mackoy;43347333]No, spring systems are not a requirement. You can still simulate all the stresses acting on a ship that remains completely static, then just break whichever blocks cross a threshold for tension/compression. Nothing has to actually move.[/QUOTE] Indeed, I'm pretty sure red faction guerrilla uses something similar to simulate stress in the constructions in there. [video=youtube;9o0FsEoyrIg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0FsEoyrIg[/video]

someone should tweet the devs and ask if a stress based physics model would be possible sometime in the future

[QUOTE=Mr.Rook;43347366]How do games like Bridge It do their stress calculation?[/QUOTE] With spring systems, the same way soft bodies work. With each individual beam being a spring, and with bridges generally being less complex than a detailed brick of jelly, it's far less expensive to run than you'd expect. What I would want is a stress-strain analysis (using some simple maths I learnt in engineering but have since forgotten) on your ship that culls blocks that exceed their maximum load. This would have the effect of increasing the strain on any other blocks that were helping distribute that force so you'd get an awesome cascading collapse that can still look really cool without resorting to soft bodies.

[QUOTE=Profanwolf;43347369]Indeed, I'm pretty sure red faction guerrilla uses something similar to simulate stress in the constructions in there. [video=youtube;9o0FsEoyrIg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0FsEoyrIg[/video][/QUOTE] it didn't feature actual stress. a building could be sitting still on a single metal rod

[QUOTE=damnatus;43347653]it didn't feature actual stress. a building could be sitting still on a single metal rod[/QUOTE] yes, but that was pretty rare wasn't it? the physics model wasn't spot on of course, but it was pretty close and satisfying. there must be some stress behind that model? [editline]29th December 2013[/editline] he even says in the video that it's stress based

[QUOTE=Profanwolf;43347369]Indeed, I'm pretty sure red faction guerrilla uses something similar to simulate stress in the constructions in there. [video=youtube;9o0FsEoyrIg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0FsEoyrIg[/video][/QUOTE] This is exactly what I had in mind. Note, this was done over 5 years ago.