Not quite
[img]http://i.imgur.com/viYyH2z.png[/img]
And yes I'm aware it's actually a dropship, but since there is no reliable ramp mechanism yet, I decided to leave it as it is.
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;43535974]Oh wow now i've just realized what their original intent was with the sound.
Because the game is in space and you're wearing a full suit so obviously you wouldn't be hearing much rather than the game lacking sounds because it's just an alpha.
Honestly I think they should keep how it is right now in certain situations.
Let's assume we have the ability to take off the suits in the future.
-If you're in a perfectly sealed ship or room not exposed to the outside and your suit is off you would have full sound, with it on the sounds would be a bit muffled (easy to do with filters).
-Outside with the space suit on you would hear only footsteps, oxygen flow, and breathing.
-With no space suit on outside at all, there's no sounds just like how the game is right now.
It'd take a bit of work but in the end they would have a good balance between the cool effects people seem to want and the "realism" the devs are striving for. So everyone wins.[/QUOTE]
uh no and yes and no
they have the preliminary plan already laid out in that link dude. there isnt much because it IS because it's in beta
Honestly, what they've decided on isn't bad. I'd personally like some sort of ambient noises, like a mechanical rumbling when you're on a ship, but other than that it's pretty stellar.
[QUOTE=damnatus;43535965]Not quite
[img]http://i.imgur.com/viYyH2z.png[/img]
And yes I'm aware it's actually a dropship, but since there is no reliable ramp mechanism yet, I decided to leave it as it is.[/QUOTE]
Well it's more like a assault ram for boarding ships, according to Forgeworld.
Wait what doors have sound?
[QUOTE=woolio1;43531371]Okay, so to recap before we go too far off the deep end, we want:
A system to group different actions to a single toggle.
Perhaps some GUI-based scripting, but no physical "wire".
No superfluous gates.
Buttons.
Doors that you can open without going into the terminal.
Am I missing anything?[/QUOTE]
The game is titled "Space [b]Engineers[/b]"
I want to see physical components being used for connections so you actually have to, y'know, build your craft like an engineer would to work the way you want it to. It doesn't have to be super complex, I like the idea of hull blocks just passively carrying a signal, but since you have that framework where blocks are built as frames first, making wiring (and piping, for moving items ala the conveyors, would be nice, or actual atmosphere systems that can transfer through air vents) an internal you place in the frame before welding the actual plating on would be great. No gates, though.
Terminal should only be accessible via the pilot chairs or dedicated terminal objects, everything else should be direct interaction (accessing inventory, toggling doors and motors, etc) and the terminal connects to any item it's wired to through the hull block it's mounted on and ignores everything else. So you can have subcircuits for less important things like lighting and keep the main area uncluttered. Wiring of different colors could be used to allow multiple circuits to run in one block without interacting.
I mean, I'd love it if thruster control were actually done by toggling the thrusters on and off, so you have to set up circuits even for that, and gyros had to be actually wired to the thrusters to control them, thrusters actually exerting force from where they are on the craft so thrusters facing right placed forward of the center of mass turn the craft left based on how far out they are from the center of mass, but that's just me. I want to have to put effort into building a ship that operates exactly how I want it to, because it makes controlling that ship immensely satisfying because it's entirely your creation.
I'd also like to see it based less on the whole ship being controllable from one place in the case of larger ships. For some reason building games just never encourage people to actually work together in multiplayer.
[QUOTE=Weiss;43538302]The game is titled "Space [b]Engineers[/b]"
I want to see physical components being used for connections so you actually have to, y'know, build your craft like an engineer would to work the way you want it to. It doesn't have to be super complex, I like the idea of hull blocks just passively carrying a signal, but since you have that framework where blocks are built as frames first, making wiring (and piping, for moving items ala the conveyors, would be nice, or actual atmosphere systems that can transfer through air vents) an internal you place in the frame before welding the actual plating on would be great. No gates, though.
Terminal should only be accessible via the pilot chairs or dedicated terminal objects, everything else should be direct interaction (accessing inventory, toggling doors and motors, etc) and the terminal connects to any item it's wired to through the hull block it's mounted on and ignores everything else. So you can have subcircuits for less important things like lighting and keep the main area uncluttered. Wiring of different colors could be used to allow multiple circuits to run in one block without interacting.
I mean, I'd love it if thruster control were actually done by toggling the thrusters on and off, so you have to set up circuits even for that, and gyros had to be actually wired to the thrusters to control them, thrusters actually exerting force from where they are on the craft so thrusters facing right placed forward of the center of mass turn the craft left based on how far out they are from the center of mass, but that's just me. I want to have to put effort into building a ship that operates exactly how I want it to, because it makes controlling that ship immensely satisfying because it's entirely your creation.
I'd also like to see it based less on the whole ship being controllable from one place in the case of larger ships. For some reason building games just never encourage people to actually work together in multiplayer.[/QUOTE]
I'm not disagreeing with you, but it seems a lot of the people here want a Space-minecraft dogfight simulator... I've heard people here argue that it's a game about smashing ships together. :downs:
I'd like some more actual "engineering," but I guess we'll see which direction the devs go with it.
(Also, I'm sorry, but your KLK avatar is kind of freaking me out.)
[QUOTE=Weiss;43538302]The game is titled "Space [b]Engineers[/b]"
I want to see physical components being used for connections so you actually have to, y'know, build your craft like an engineer would to work the way you want it to. It doesn't have to be super complex, I like the idea of hull blocks just passively carrying a signal, but since you have that framework where blocks are built as frames first, making wiring (and piping, for moving items ala the conveyors, would be nice, or actual atmosphere systems that can transfer through air vents) an internal you place in the frame before welding the actual plating on would be great. No gates, though.
Terminal should only be accessible via the pilot chairs or dedicated terminal objects, everything else should be direct interaction (accessing inventory, toggling doors and motors, etc) and the terminal connects to any item it's wired to through the hull block it's mounted on and ignores everything else. So you can have subcircuits for less important things like lighting and keep the main area uncluttered. Wiring of different colors could be used to allow multiple circuits to run in one block without interacting.[/quote]
Agreeable
[quote]I mean, I'd love it if thruster control were actually done by toggling the thrusters on and off, so you have to set up circuits even for that, and gyros had to be actually wired to the thrusters to control them, thrusters actually exerting force from where they are on the craft so thrusters facing right placed forward of the center of mass turn the craft left based on how far out they are from the center of mass, but that's just me.[/quote]
ehhhhhh
[quote]you [b]have[/b] to set up circuits even for that, and gyros had to be actually wired to the thrusters to control them[/quote]
emphasis on the ehhhhhh
[quote]I'd also like to see it based less on the whole ship being controllable from one place in the case of larger ships. For some reason building games just never encourage people to actually work together in multiplayer.[/QUOTE]
Well you see, the problem is that you never know where that's gonna lead. It could mean that people would start working together in order to increase the effectiveness of their ship, or it could just mean everyone would start building smaller ships that can be controlled by a single person.
If i have to spend 20-30 minutes wiring things and completing otherwise rubix cube-esque tasks just to make my dakka potato shaped space catastrophies' lights turn on, let alone the things i actually took the time to give some distinct and pleasing form, i can't say i'd play as much
like 9 out of 10 things i build already get scrapped and make me wonder if i should see a neurologist
I don't think players should have to solve differential equations to drive their ships, but I do want to be able to control motors and thrusters with logic/math.
Things I want to build:
- Self destruct that requires two players on opposite sides of the ship to press two distinct buttons at the same time
- Motor doors that open and close based on the press of one button, and slow down as they approach their end.
- Seal all of the doors on a ship if a section is damaged. (This is simple: Put a bunch of chips that output "True" around your ship, and link them all to an AND gate. If one of them is destroyed, the AND gate will output False, and you use that to close the doors, throw on some blaring red strobe lights)
- A missile that uses a warhead, reactor and thruster. The 'computer' on the ship turns on the thruster when it gets a signal from its launching ship
- Retractable suspension landing gear like below
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fxyKLWm.jpg[/img]
We can ask the devs to develop all of these things for us, but then we would be limited to only what the devs have time to create. I hope we get the tools to build these things on our own, in the form of a block diagram GUI where we can assign parts connections to logic/math gates or to other parts. This will make SE my favorite building game of all time.
i wonder if you could place moving drills all over your ship and use it like dazzle camouflage
[QUOTE=Cone;43539842]i wonder if you could place moving drills all over your ship and use it like dazzle camouflage[/QUOTE]
more like framerate-drop or game-crash camouflage, really.
[QUOTE=Squeegy Mackoy;43491283]I just submitted a copyright infringement thingy.[/QUOTE]
So what happened with this anyways?
[QUOTE=woolio1;43538351]
(Also, I'm sorry, but your KLK avatar is kind of freaking me out.)[/QUOTE]
Isn't it wonderful
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43538764]Agreeable
ehhhhhh
emphasis on the ehhhhhh
Well you see, the problem is that you never know where that's gonna lead. It could mean that people would start working together in order to increase the effectiveness of their ship, or it could just mean everyone would start building smaller ships that can be controlled by a single person.[/QUOTE]
I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone, yeah.
I disagree that that's a problem though. If you don't want to work with others you use small ships, if you're playing with a group you can easily use larger ships. If everyone has big fancy ships, those big fancy ships aren't impressive anymore. Which is honestly pretty boring, at least to me - building and maintaining a massive ship says nothing except that you have more time to waste, not that you're actually better at the game or that you're more coordinated as a group.
[QUOTE=Weiss;43540407]
I disagree that that's a problem though. If you don't want to work with others you use small ships, if you're playing with a group you can easily use larger ships. If everyone has big fancy ships, those big fancy ships aren't impressive anymore. Which is honestly pretty boring, at least to me - building and maintaining a massive ship says nothing except that you have more time to waste, not that you're actually better at the game or that you're more coordinated as a group.[/QUOTE]
well, the thing is, we don't know if everyone will be using giant ships in the first place. in the end, we might see nothing but medium sized ships, we can't know at this point.
imo, a better solution would be to make using crews [i]more effective[/i] than piloting alone, but not having them be [i]necessary[/i] for big ships. that way, you'd still be able to finish your giant ship project alone if you don't have anyone that can help you, but teamwork will also be an important thing
I never got into Redstone, the sheer basic-ness of the logic gates and as such just how large and clunky you needed to make things put me off at the start, and so I never did much with it. And with wiremod, I was a 14 year old kid, I got the concepts but I was never patient enough to really use it well.
But here is my idea: A lite power system. A simple control system.
Lite Power System:
You have a reactor, you have your ship interior, you have your powered object, eg light.
Much like the current drag and drop area build, you have a drag and drop 'assign power route', You start on either side of the line, and I guess it would feel like the magnetic lasso tool from photoshop, it would highlight and intelligently follow the surfaces you lead it on till you get to either the other end or the point that you stop. It makes the 'wire', and (this is where I feel this is the weakest because I don't know much about how the engine handles textures etc) it puts wire/cable textures along those surfaces on that route, possibly normal mapped to look 3D etc. The power in these cables is instant and constant, no flow of power along lines, lines just have power. This makes it a lot easier without detracting much.
This means that it's easy to use, it has actual routes, visuals that could mean that people build crawlspaces/backwalls for powerlines, and it's simple.
"What if I don't want cables everywhere or holes In my walls that cables lead into?" Vent-tops, grates, that kind of thing that the wire tool would ignore.
"What stops people from coating the entire interior of their ship with wires so I can't stop the flow with my damage?" Nothing, in creative at least. If people want to do that, they can, but in survival I imagine it would take a lot of resources to do that. This also solves one of the issues redstone has where with flow of current, having 4 redstone next to each other lead to negating sqaures of space hell.
Simple Control System:
I haven't thought this one through as much. One option is to use an extension of the system above, which could work in many ways but may be slightly more complicated since generally controls and such need a sense of direction and are more complicated as a whole than just IsPower(Value).
The other option is something similar to the wiring system from Gunpoint. No actual wires, just a visual interface linking one object to another, potentially both in 3D and in a GUI, with arrows indicating the direction of the link. Simpler but less "engineery", while you could board a ship and use a terminal to control stuff, you couldn't disable someone's control over stuff physically. This could lead to people having their ship torn in two, their control room away from the rest but still piloting the ship, not good. However it makes remote control super easy, maybe good.
Either needs work as an idea, but I hope you get the concepts.
Either way all logic could be handled by terminals that everything links to. You could wire everything to one terminal in your control room and leave it at that, have everything controlled form there, a GUI/onscreen interface handles all logic connections though a drag-and-drop system, lots of pre-done logic there so you don't need to be a whiz to make stuff do what you want it to. With workshop people could make pre-built logic terminal systems to go, just hook it up. Easy.
But what if someone destroys that console, or separates you from it? You could make a back-up panel, an override panel in a hidden space. Or you could have everything on different terminals, in one room like Star Trek so if one goes down not all is lost, or all over the ship for the true crewmanship feel. You get the idea, it'd be as easy or as advanced as you wanted it to be.
Honestly I rather enjoy this kind of design stuff, an enquiring physicists mind, a love of problem solving and the fact that I'm studying game design make this all so entertaining.
Now obviously I expect I've missed a few things, I can't think of all scenarios 1) Because I'm just human. And 2) Because I don't own the game to properly visualise this stuff.
I'll try and make some pictures to visualise my point tomorrow probably, and of course am open to discussion, but I won't be on for at least a few hours to reply.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43527680]you people seem to forget its a very destructive voxel game where everything needs to be mined, refined, assembled and constructed.
Having the fucking rewire every damn thing with even 'simple' gates and shit is just going to be tedious.[/QUOTE]
Why can't you have it like Gmod where you just click on one thing and click another? That's very simple.
[editline]14th January 2014[/editline]
Just because a feature is in a game doesn't mean you should need to use it; if the dev's make it like that, that's their fault, not the idea's.
its a dumb idea
i really dont get the appeal
its like chemists asking to mix fuel for the engines
fuck them
and fuck their stupid ideas
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43541514]its a dumb idea
i really dont get the appeal
its like chemists asking to mix fuel for the engines
fuck them
and fuck their stupid ideas[/QUOTE]
yeah but idk if I'm entirely a fan of the game you want either.
[editline]14th January 2014[/editline]
and i've literally never used wire so you can't throw that at me
I feel dumb asking but how do you open doors?
[QUOTE=Brandon;43541710]I feel dumb asking but how do you open doors?[/QUOTE]
By opening the whole menu system you use on everything else at the keypad. It's really unintuitive.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;43541514]its a dumb idea
i really dont get the appeal
its like chemists asking to mix fuel for the engines
fuck them
and fuck their stupid ideas[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone is suggesting that you should have to solve differential equations in order to drive your ship. All of the controls in the game as it stands would remain. Logical/mathematical controls allows you to do some really cool things that would otherwise be impossible without needing an enormous library of mods. It doesn't require you to have an advanced degree, strong math skills or development experience to wire, whereas developing your own mod for a turret or door might require all of those things [I]and even then[/I] you'd only be able to use it on servers that have it.
If it used the ideas we've suggested (Which it probably will) it won't give anyone an obscene advantage. It just lets you do more cool things and makes a crew more useful.
We have to remember that game developers value their time perhaps too much. What would this add to the game? is it in their vision of what they'd like (time, effort, work required to make a ship)? Why gates, which are not immediately intuitive to everyone? Why not visual scripting? What might non-boolean buttons add? How complex would a theoretical, raw scripting set of logic need to be to make something actually even remotely useful? Do we want to inevitably restrict a portion of the game's potential to a particular majority/minority of people?
I wonder what the devs would think if they read these arguments.
[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;43542315]I wonder what the devs would think if they read these arguments.[/QUOTE]
I've begun to regard them as the game equivalent of abstract philosophical debates.
I'd be incredibly surprised if they didn't have at least a basic I/O system. That would just be poppycock.
IMO, the game doesn't need anything past the ability to link shit and/or groups of shit to hotkeys. Anything else just seems outside of the scope of the game.
The game's called Space Engineers after all. Not Space Electricians.
I.e: I feel like SE is better off being closer to Kerbal Space Program than Gmod or Minecraft.
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Space Engineers - Say goodbye to Starmade and Blockade runner.
