Space Engineers - Say goodbye to Starmade and Blockade runner. - Games

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45005407]Do you always tend to strawman this hard? It may seem simple to you, doesn't mean it is for everyone else.[/QUOTE] I totally get that, really. I'm not trying to start an argument or prove how autistic I am, I honestly think it will improve the game. I know some people will find it harder, but my point was two fold: 1. that the mere presence of programming will NOT kill the game for those people, in fact, I think any small programs they can make (or borrow from other people) will [I]improve[/I] their experience (automating doors etc). 2. the possibilities of the game shouldn't be limited by the lowest common denominator. once again I'm not saying people who don't want to code are stupid, but first and foremost the game is a [I]sandbox[/I]... and it's really counter to that to say 'nah, too complicated' some may say that e2 killed gmod but look at all the insane creations people have made with it [QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45005407]I could just as well say synthesising aspirin is simple as fuck (which it is), but if I showed you the reaction formula, gave you the reagents, instructions [I]and[/I] the equipment, you're still likely to end up with something better for poisoning people than stopping headaches unless you had considerable practice.[/QUOTE] bad example, I can and have :v: (intermediate chem) [QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45005407]Automated drones and heavier turrets with aiming and reaction times superior to that of players (or just suicide drones), for example. The idea that it won't affect you if you don't want to partake in it is patently bollocks. I seriously doubt they're going to be giving the good stuff to other people freely. E2 code in Spacebuild that had a competitive edge in combat was treated almost like a state secret in practically every server I visited over the years. Thing is a really smart NPC ship with vast arrays of homing missiles would be a massive advantage.[/QUOTE] I definitely agree that this shouldn't happen though. but the vibe I got from the blog post is that stuff like super drones and auto aim turrets wont be a thing due to limitations such as refresh rate and limited sensors, at least I hope they don't go down the magic force, all-knowing e2 route but as I said, even if it does come to that, the solution will be to turn off programming on pvp servers

So, pretty sure the server has been crashed for half a day now and nobody has told me, but it should be back up now. But I did notice something as I turned the server off.. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4249868/ShareX/2014/06/2014-06-05_12-03-42.png[/img] Apparently it decided to use 16GB of RAM. Could be the reason why we're having these intense lag issues, memory leaks.

[QUOTE=krail9;45005531]I totally get that, really. I'm not trying to start an argument or prove how autistic I am, I honestly think it will improve the game. I know some people will find it harder, but my point was two fold: 1. that the mere presence of programming will NOT kill the game for those people, in fact, I think any small programs they can make (or borrow from other people) will [I]improve[/I] their experience (automating doors etc). 2. the possibilities of the game shouldn't be limited by the lowest common denominator. once again I'm not saying people who don't want to code are stupid, but first and foremost the game is a [I]sandbox[/I]... and it's really counter to that to say 'nah, too complicated' some may say that e2 killed gmod but look at all the insane creations people have made with it bad example, I can and have :v: (intermediate chem) I definitely agree that this shouldn't happen though. but the vibe I got from the blog post is that stuff like super drones and auto aim turrets wont be a thing due to limitations such as refresh rate and limited sensors, at least I hope they don't go down the magic force, all-knowing e2 route but as I said, even if it does come to that, the solution will be to turn off programming on pvp servers[/QUOTE] while I agree that programming will definitely improve and add upon the game, I'm very concerned about the segregation that happened in gmod. as someone mentioned earlier, eventually it boiled down to two groups of people: people who could wire and people who couldn't. I'm a little optimistic about this approach as there isn't magical E2 mumbo jumbo, but I am worried that programming will give big advantages to those who can do it, like the automated drones and heavy turrets with no delay in aiming and shooting like Sgt Doom mentioned. hopefully there'll be limitations like you said, but still a little too early to talk about that (unless I missed something). programming is great and it opens up a lot of possibilities, but what about those who can't write code? for example, two players face off in space with their large ships. one can write code, the other can't. the guy who can write code decided to automate a few fighters while also having on board turrets. the guy who can't program can't launch any fighters as that'd require real people, which has obviously given the guy who can write code an advantage to the fight. this is what worries me. if situations like the example I came with can happen, then personally I'd need an alternative to it to be happy to have it around.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45005407]Do you always tend to strawman this hard? It may seem simple to you, doesn't mean it is for everyone else. I could just as well say synthesising aspirin is simple as fuck (which it is), but if I showed you the reaction formula, gave you the reagents, instructions [I]and[/I] the equipment, you're still likely to end up with something better for poisoning people than stopping headaches unless you had considerable practice. Yes, any plonker could code something that does very little, like opening a door when the proximity sensor sees a player, but for something useful for combat it puts the advantage squarely with those that can code well. Automated drones and heavier turrets with aiming and reaction times superior to that of players (or just suicide drones), for example. The idea that it won't affect you if you don't want to partake in it is patently bollocks. I seriously doubt they're going to be giving the good stuff to other people freely. E2 code in Spacebuild that had a competitive edge in combat was treated almost like a state secret in practically every server I visited over the years. Thing is a really smart NPC ship with vast arrays of homing missiles would be a massive advantage. To clarify, i'd be totally fine with programming that doesn't need to be responded to with more programming to counter. Mining, manufacturing, construction and repair automation would actually be rather nice to have considering how monotonous it usually is. Hell, viruses too if they can't be transmitted remotely (but if you're inside the ship you might as well just break the medbay, shoot the pilot and take the ship). But applyforce or the other magic bollocks aren't the only reasons Spacebuild combat turned into E2 duels. At the very least, simply having more ships than your opponent is going to win you the day most of the time. It of course depends on a lot of factors and how they're balanced, but considering people are salivating most at the combat opportunities (yay swarms of suicide drones! etc.), i'm not massively hopeful about it.[/QUOTE] regardless of how easy or hard it is you don't have to even involve yourself with it. Krail has been nice enough to offer to teach people what they'll need to know to survive before. Don't act like it's the end of the world because an option feature exists.

Why is everyone being so pretentious about coding? You're all saying it's piss easy - how about a little empathy? Not everyone out there will take to it as easily as you did, even if they put in the time. I've seen many people attempt things that others deemed easy and no matter how hard they tried they couldn't get it. C# coding or not - learning something new isn't always an easy easy task. It all depends on the person. Jesus, how hard is that to understand? Do any of you actually have contact with people in the real world or what? [editline]5th June 2014[/editline] I'm not going against all the C# programming stuff that's coming, I'm really excited about it and excited to learn - I'm just particularly disgusted at the massive cloud of ignorance surrounding half the people in this thread.

basic coding is literally as simple as if(Sensor = on){Weapon:Fire} The only major difficulty of coding is remembering all the specific terms. However, as said [I]many[/I] times before, coding will only help you automate things you can already do. The most competitive advantage it can give, if I'm understanding that blog post correctly, is to automate maneuvering for AI ships. Now that is a pretty big advantage, but like most things, it can be countered by brute force engineering. For every hour that guy is putting into coding, you're putting it into building or designing bigger and better ships.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45005647]regardless of how easy or hard it is you don't have to even involve yourself with it. Krail has been nice enough to offer to teach people what they'll need to know to survive before. Don't act like it's the end of the world because an option feature exists.[/QUOTE]I never said it'd be the end of the world you condescending twat, I said it would give an advantage in mp combat that some would not be able to utilise. How many Gmod servers don't use wire, Spacebuild especially? You can probably count them on your hands. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45006065]How many Gmod servers don't use wire, Spacebuild especially? You can probably count them on your hands.[/QUOTE] this only tells me that wire is popular and doesn't help your side of the argument much

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45006065]I never said it'd be the end of the world you condescending twat, I said it would give an advantage in mp combat that some would not be able to utilise. How many Gmod servers don't use wire, Spacebuild especially? You can probably count them on your hands.[/QUOTE] Wiremod is basically essential for building just about anything now, if only for being able to activate stuff with buttons, and the advanced pod controller.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45006065]I never said it'd be the end of the world you condescending twat, I said it would give an advantage in mp combat that some would not be able to utilise. How many Gmod servers don't use wire, Spacebuild especially? You can probably count them on your hands.[/QUOTE] It's my understanding that games when making AI, especially at higher difficulty levels, basically give the AI built in "hacks" because trying to make AI anywhere near as smart as a human is really hard. Thus, if programming in SE is constrained to what a human would reasonable known (via sensor data) or what a human could reasonable do, then I don't see how having programming would be this massive advantage in combat. Really, the only thing programming would be good at in such a case would be a force multiplier (as in, AI could take over for players); however, as noted above, the AI is probably going to be a lot dumber than an actual player. This equates to wasting resources building AI ships that just get completely outmatched by players, despite a numerical advantage. There's also that a program could probably do something much quicker than a human (close a door if an intruder is detected, for example); but doing something like that would both be extremely simple and really cool: For example: if find("room_sensor_1").detects_enemy() then find("door_1").close() which, even if you don't understand the above, would be easy enough to copy and paste in. Besides, if an artificial delay is added in, especially for stuff like tracking data, it wouldn't really take much to make programs worse than players; though with the existing turrets and what not tracking quickly (last I checked) I don't see how having a program doing it would be that different.

The most complicated coding I've done is ActionScript... but I feel like a simple system like pbasic would be cool for this game. I had one of those basic stamp robots that I programmed to go around and not hit walls and shit was pretty easy, also way more fun to program since you actually get to watch your little robot move around.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;45006065]I never said it'd be the end of the world you condescending twat, I said it would give an advantage in mp combat that some would not be able to utilise. How many Gmod servers don't use wire, Spacebuild especially? You can probably count them on your hands.[/QUOTE] you must break down into tears every time somebody uses redstone in minecraft. seriously how is this shit even a thing to cry about? fuck's sake :suicide: you know what features I want? being able to play multiplayer with close to no lag and procedural maps. because that would only make sense or something.

If Keen cancels programming because of whiners, I'm going to be extremely sad.

[QUOTE=Spor;45006847]If Keen cancels programming because of whiners, I'm going to be extremely sad.[/QUOTE] People need to stop overreacting in advance, it's a little tiring. I may be a little biased since I'm a programmer and I'm actually looking forward to it, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. Just let things have their way, if it turns out bad, complain then! I don't think they have any intention of making some sort of E2 clusterfuck as people seem to be imagining where you can magically manipulate things. .. I am rather confused at their attempt to integrate C# as a scripting language rather than something considerably simpler like Lua though, I really hope they pick Lua if they do add in a programming language :v: It's a lot simpler than C# and would make the entry barrier for getting into the programming much easier, as he is a programmer himself he seems to enjoy C# (and object orientation), but he should consider his crowd and their needs as well, no need to immediately introduce too much complexity.

[QUOTE=Spor;45006847]If Keen cancels programming because of whiners, I'm going to be extremely sad.[/QUOTE] lol nobody is gonna cancel anything now disabling programs for certain servers, I can see that happening

I'm just glad its update day and we should receive an update or a reason that there wasn't an update

Besides, didn't Marek say there would be a GUI-based 'easy mode'?

[QUOTE=Profanwolf;45006972]People need to stop overreacting in advance, it's a little tiring. I may be a little biased since I'm a programmer and I'm actually looking forward to it, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. Just let things have their way, if it turns out bad, complain then! I don't think they have any intention of making some sort of E2 clusterfuck as people seem to be imagining where you can magically manipulate things. .. I am rather confused at their attempt to integrate C# as a scripting language rather than something considerably simpler like Lua though, I really hope they pick Lua if they do add in a programming language :v: It's a lot simpler than C# and would make the entry barrier for getting into the programming much easier, as he is a programmer himself he seems to enjoy C# (and object orientation), but he should consider his crowd and their needs as well, no need to immediately introduce too much complexity.[/QUOTE] C# is definitely one of the easier languages to learn though

[QUOTE=DeEz;45007162]C# is definitely one of the easier languages to learn though[/QUOTE] Not one of the easiest to integrate into a game though, Lua is probably the best there, simplest API out of most existing script languages and definitely much simpler than integrating something like C#. [editline]5th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=PaperBurrito;45007149]Besides, didn't Marek say there would be a GUI-based 'easy mode'?[/QUOTE] Lets hope so :v: It seems to all be at a rather early concept stage anyways, so lets not speculate too widely, it'll probably change

[video=youtube;cEqRgWWzrZA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEqRgWWzrZA[/video]

Shitson, proper docking and repairing of ships now. Also that changeable small ship tool concept. Genius And better multiplayer code too. Fuck yeah.

From the description [quote]Also, we have redesigned and upgraded our multi-player code. This results in a more stable multi-player with less lag. This is important especially for rotors, wheels and similar objects.[/quote] Aw yeah.

We need an immediate situation report on the multiplayer lag fixes!

Do turrets prefer decoys over moving objects? Would a ship that had decoys docked to it, then dropping the decoys behind it when its being fired upon be able to evade the turret fire until the decoys are destroyed?

[t]http://i.imgur.com/6dYGHhI.png[/t]

[QUOTE=Holt!;45007512]Do turrets prefer decoys over moving objects? Would a ship that had decoys docked to it, then dropping the decoys behind it when its being fired upon be able to evade the turret fire until the decoys are destroyed?[/QUOTE] Yes. That was described in the turret update video. [editline]5th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;45007612][t]http://i.imgur.com/6dYGHhI.png[/t][/QUOTE] Uh, that should not be in the public version :v: (it's not a feature of any kind)

[QUOTE=Gen. Crumpets;45007442][video=youtube;cEqRgWWzrZA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEqRgWWzrZA[/video][/QUOTE] Now as good as those merge blocks are, we need fucking key binding for shit.

[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;45007662]Now as good as those merge blocks are, we need fucking key binding for shit.[/QUOTE] After reading Marek's blog regarding programming, I think key binding might only come with it

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;45007612][t]http://i.imgur.com/6dYGHhI.png[/t][/QUOTE] Same thing happened to me, is that a new or existing world?

Any world