super smash bros - LEAK TIME AGAIN (RECAP: Yes, they're really adding Krystal from Star Fox, videos - Games

[video]https://youtu.be/7v9ElrrVqfI[/video] u cannot hide

My friend texted me saying Shovel Knight was all but confirmed Got excited He was just talking about the old rumors and wasn't up to date Got sad Checked my phone just now after waking up Messaged me "confirmed" with a YT link Had heart attack Check vid It's a John Cena video disguised as a SK reveal trailer Already fell for it yesterday Got sad again

[QUOTE=Clovernoodle;48592687]My friend texted me saying Shovel Knight was all but confirmed Got excited He was just talking about the old rumors and wasn't up to date Got sad Checked my phone just now after waking up Messaged me "confirmed" with a YT link Had heart attack Check vid It's a John Cena video disguised as a SK reveal trailer Already fell for it yesterday Got sad again[/QUOTE] The tale of a man cut down in his prime.

So it seems [url=gonintendo.com/stories/241745-yacht-club-keeping-quiet-on-possibility-of-shovel-knight-in-smash]Yacht Club Games seems to be trying to avoid discussion about Shovel Knight in Smash[/url]. Could this be a sign of a NDA?

NDA isn't conclusive. It could've been part of the contracts they had to sign for the amiibo, so that they don't reveal what unreleased games the amiibo will be functional with in the future.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48594012]NDA isn't conclusive. It could've been part of the contracts they had to sign for the amiibo, so that they don't reveal what unreleased games the amiibo will be functional with in the future.[/QUOTE] And if they aren't allowed to talk about Smash that obviously means it's a future game.

[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;48594266]And if they aren't allowed to talk about Smash that obviously means it's a future game.[/QUOTE] True enough. But it could just be for a Mii costume or something. Let's not get our hopes up until the fat lady sings.

[t]http://i.imgur.com/qOeDKyd.jpg[/t] The rich get richer, the poor shuffle around a bit

How is Zelda that low? I thought she was pretty decent in this game.

I'm gonna make a fucking montage of how badly I own in FG with Ganon and Mewtwo. That list is bullshit. [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] That list looks like it's literally ranked from who has the worst inescapable combos and are the least fun to play against. I mained Sheik for a while but it's not as fun or challenging as Villager, Ganon, Mewtwo, or even Pac.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48594453]How is Zelda that low? I thought she was pretty decent in this game.[/QUOTE] She is decent. That's the problem- not great, just decent. It's a damn shame, she has potential to be excellent.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48594453]How is Zelda that low? I thought she was pretty decent in this game.[/QUOTE] She has a great longer range game and a nice approach in the form of SHFF lightning kick, but outside of that, most if not all characters have options that put her at a noticeable disadvantage if used correctly. Her moves are all easy to read and many have excessive lag, with her specials in particular leaving her quite vulnerable, all but one locking her in place for the duration. She also can't use din's fire while offstage without suiciding, which is highly unfortunate and hampers her options for safe recovery.

[QUOTE=ChickenMan99;48594561]She is decent. That's the problem- not great, just decent. It's a damn shame, she has potential to be excellent.[/QUOTE] I don't think anything under the category of "decent" should be that low in a tier list. When you have that many tiers, anything at the bottom should be considered utter shit.

Aren't tier lists less of a list of how good characters are and more of a list of how much tournament success has been achieved with the character?

Good tier lists are often made by experienced players who come together and discuss the character like how many wins in tournaments they have, what metagame there is and taking matchups (and lots of different factors) into account. That tier list is made by buttmad redittors who get wrecked in for glory and spam "sheik is op" in the votes [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] It's not an "official" tier list, it's reddit's "x is op" of the month vote

From what I've seen. They change so often, so don't feel bad if your main is not up high currently. There are balance patches so things can change drastically.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48594599]I don't think anything under the category of "decent" should be that low in a tier list. When you have that many tiers, anything at the bottom should be considered utter shit.[/QUOTE] The problem isn't that she's bad. Theres just a lot of characters who are better. That said, I cannot see Shiek being better than Rosalina.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48594599]I don't think anything under the category of "decent" should be that low in a tier list. When you have that many tiers, anything at the bottom should be considered utter shit.[/QUOTE] I agree, but Zelda's still outclassed, sadly. I guess she can join Samus in the 'ladies who have alt forms who overshadow the actual thing' club. :v:

[QUOTE=Oizen;48594798]The problem isn't that she's bad. Theres just a lot of characters who are better.[/QUOTE] That's something you say when the character is about mid-tier, not at the absolute bottom tier. She's being placed alongside Samus for crying out loud. Like, I can understand Mewtwo and Samus being that low. They're just not very good characters that have very few redeeming qualities. When it comes to those characters it's not just about being outclassed, it's just not having anything going for them in the first place.

What is honestly so great about Rosalina? I have never had trouble fighting one before. I've had more trouble with fucking Mario than her. When I get the opportunity, I need to fight a good Rosalina.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48594819]That's something you say when the character is about mid-tier, not at the absolute bottom tier. She's being placed alongside Samus for crying out loud. Like, I can understand Mewtwo and Samus being that low. They're just not very good characters that have very few redeeming qualities. When it comes to those characters it's not just about being outclassed, it's just not having anything going for them in the first place.[/QUOTE] That tierlist comes from reddit, so I wouldn't take it too seriously. I mean they somehow think Littlemac is actually viable. [QUOTE=EditOutJ;48594854]What is honestly so great about Rosalina? I have never had trouble fighting one before. I've had more trouble with fucking Mario than her. When I get the opportunity, I need to fight a good Rosalina.[/QUOTE] She's just overall too perfect to me. Plus theres absolutely no downside to luma dying.

i don't think that a bottom tier character actually being mid tier, or second lowest, is a particularly pressing issue personally. who cares if zelda is secretly mid tier she's probably not relevant at the top level either way. the top/high tiers of that list seem fine to me. don't know what it's based on though. [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=EditOutJ;48594854]What is honestly so great about Rosalina? I have never had trouble fighting one before. I've had more trouble with fucking Mario than her. When I get the opportunity, I need to fight a good Rosalina.[/QUOTE] as far as i know she has a bunch of safe options with luma, good range and generally good hitboxes, a really damn good up air kill move with disjoint. she's actually pretty difficult to use effectively though, mario is way more straightforward.

Honestly, when I play as Rosalina, Luma feels a lot less like a puppet and more like a reusable projectile/meat shield. I could just be awful at using Luma, though.

[QUOTE=EditOutJ;48594854]What is honestly so great about Rosalina? I have never had trouble fighting one before. I've had more trouble with fucking Mario than her. When I get the opportunity, I need to fight a good Rosalina.[/QUOTE] actually, I thought the same way until I fought some actual competitive rosalinas. the kind you most often find on fg are trash. rosalina can actually be a fucking nightmare to fight against if the person has put work into her. you gotta be patient and not get baited.

[QUOTE=Max;48594775]Good tier lists are often made by experienced players who come together and discuss the character like how many wins in tournaments they have, what metagame there is and taking matchups (and lots of different factors) into account.[/QUOTE] Except this is equally prone to bias in my experience. Skilled players tend to discuss what they play (and play against) and little else; Zero's analysis videos are an example of something very rare. Community lists are hampered by negative bias, scene lists are held back by positive bias, every single tier list is biased and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

tbh the tier lists aren't going to mean too much this early on. we have a basic framework of who's good and who is less good based on the characters' toolsets as we know them now. balance patches and tech/combo discoveries can shift things around. until there is the understanding of this game in general is more fully realized, the tier list isn't finished. [editline]1st September 2015[/editline] a better thing to look into is matchup analyses for each character, which is what a tier list condenses imperfectlym

Does Rosalina have any good approaches? Her ariels are all garbage for horizontal control, Luma is a sack of shit and I don't recall her having a especially good dash attack.

Remember guys people still argue about tiers in melee so this tier literally useless in the grand schemes of things. There's tons of fighters in the game and only a handful have dedicated high level competitors using them. I mean I'm pretty sure Nairo once played Zelda in tournament as a counter to Pikachu, only time will tell how far some of these bottom tier fighters go, and I think some of them have a chance of going pretty far.

[QUOTE=EditOutJ;48595312]Does Rosalina have any good approaches? Her ariels are all garbage for horizontal control, Luma is a sack of shit and I don't recall her having a especially good dash attack.[/QUOTE] She is the eternal queen of timing matches out into percentage decision. As weak as her offensive tools can be, her defensive ones are unmatched.

[QUOTE=EditOutJ;48595312]Does Rosalina have any good approaches? Her ariels are all garbage for horizontal control, Luma is a sack of shit and I don't recall her having a especially good dash attack.[/QUOTE] With customs Luma can immediately appear at the opponent and she gets Falco's laser. Her fair and bair, especially with Luma, have great horizontal range and knockback. She's designed to wall people out, so yea overall her approach game is pretty weak but if you have Luma he's basically a meat shield for you to safely attack the opponent.