super smash bros - LEAK TIME AGAIN (RECAP: Yes, they're really adding Krystal from Star Fox, videos - Games

I tune into the USFIV tourney whenever a Sheik, Rosalina, ZSS, or Sonic is playing. I can actually tolerate Diddy because I know he's been nerfed like hell and it's impressive to see people still doing good stuff with him.

Ugh, Smash 4's comp singles meta is so slow and spectator-unfriendly. even with top tiers. I wish they'd buff up everyone already so that kills don't take 2+ minutes apiece, otherwise Sm4sh will be dropped as fast as Brawl was once a future one comes out. Teams are ok although there are some absurd and overly-good gimmicks possible.

what is the ACTUAL reason why rosaluma, sonic, sheik, zss, and diddy are so boring to watch? because if i am ever having trouble falling asleep remind me to put on the vod of ceo sm4sh singles 2015

[QUOTE=mphayes97;48067836]what is the ACTUAL reason why rosaluma, sonic, sheik, zss, and diddy are so boring to watch? because if i am ever having trouble falling asleep remind me to put on the vod of ceo sm4sh singles 2015[/QUOTE] It's actually rather straightforward. They're all great at resetting to the neutral. People don't want to see neutral, they want to see pressure, but the game is designed in pretty much every possible way to make it so that pressure does not exist due to how absurdly easy defensive options like airdodging, rolling and shielding are to do while also curtailing offensive options like kill moves and even ledge occupancy, so that the battle is basically just chip damage when the most exciting parts of Smash gameplay are watching people try to set up gimps or making combo food out of each other. Sheik, Sonic, Rosalina, Zero Suit Samus and Diddy Kong excel at resetting to neutral, which means that both players have to figure out how to approach since the amount of good approach options is next-to-none with awareness that the opponent can easily escape and reset it yet again if they try to do anything overly aggressive. Thus, you get Brawl style camping all over the place and get rather boring gameplay at high and mid level. I assume that most of these changes were done to make 8-player matches possible but it's moot when people tend to veer away from them due to the overly chaotic nature, anyway, and would prefer 1v1, 2v2 or 4-P FFA. Rosalina in particular is the best at resetting to neutral because her entire gameplay design is based on being campy as possible in a game that is already ridiculously campy. The opponent gets punished if they don't take out Luma first since Luma is absurdly good as a meatshield, KOer and damage rackups (as well as, arbitrarily, interrupting you if you actually [i]do[/i] knock Rosalina away) and she also has the speed and aerial mobility to wait out the death of Luma by stalling, which is why I think Luma should not be allowed to respawn. Sonic is probably the second-best at resetting to neutral, so ironically the best way to play the fastest character is to stall forever until the opponent does something like a smash attack that is easily punished, run in, then run back out and wait again since he doesn't have really good options for sticking around and continuing combos safely and has to rely on his ridiculous bait-and-punish game. Sheik and ZSS have an answer to everything, except they also have almost no good kill options for low percents and thus take forever to actually do anything despite being so good. Imagine if Brawl Meta-Knight didn't have down smash or the killbox on Shuttle Loop. That's basically what Sheik and ZSS are: asininely hard to deal with in neutral and in pressure but easy to survive for a while. This is moot though because they just have to wait for attrition to take place in order to get kills with options that normally wouldn't be considered good options. Diddy is boring because all Diddy Kongs killed in the exact same way pre-nerf because of how good up-air was for everything, but at least his best gimmick was killing fast, unlike the other 4 you mentioned.

And additionally from a layman's perspective, they tend to be very samey in the way they're played, even between two different players. Their best strategies are very inflexible, and repeat quite a lot.

Diddy is a bit more tolerable to watch now if you ask me.

diddy isn't riddled down to hoo-hah anymore. he's gotta mix it up a bit now.

honestly sonic is the only one out of those i find boring. the rest are fun to watch for me.

[QUOTE=postal;48068195]honestly sonic is the only one out of those i find boring. the rest are fun to watch for me.[/QUOTE] how can you find rosalina fun to watch? i can understand anyone else but rosalina is just so straightforward. it's not even as much about micromanagement as we all originally thought and more so "deal more damage because luma's with you" and "luma's a meatshield"

part of the reason why smash 4 seems slow, to me at least, is that there seems to be a distinct lack of shield stun. this causes most moves to be unsafe on shield, which discourages cornering people as they can easily grab or use some other move out of shield. if shieldstun was higher and more moves were safe on shield (don't go overboard with this) then it would actually mean something when you corner someone and force them to shield. idk if that would help but it just seems to me that the top tiers have nothing to be afraid of when forced to shield

Honestly the ability to keep running momentum while jumping would make Rosalina and many other stall-happy characters much easier to approach (and in Sonic's case, follow)

[QUOTE=Everything;48068394]Honestly the ability to keep running momentum while jumping would make Rosalina and many other stall-happy characters much easier to approach (and in Sonic's case, follow)[/QUOTE] While that should definitely be present (absolutely baffling that it was removed), that's the least of the issues approaching them, unfortunately. You'd need to overhaul several mechanics to make approaching more viable.

[QUOTE=Keychain;48068214]how can you find rosalina fun to watch? i can understand anyone else but rosalina is just so straightforward. it's not even as much about micromanagement as we all originally thought and more so "deal more damage because luma's with you" and "luma's a meatshield"[/QUOTE] I haven't seen many matches but I found the match ESAM played against a rosalina really fun to watch since he kept having to find chances to beat the shit out of luma and at one point used luma to slow down a back aerial to let him catch Rosalina with it. When I said they could be fun to watch I also meant in the sense of how other characters deal with them. Sonic matches just seem dull as shit all around, tho, and horribly dragged out.

postal, teach me to smash?

I think liking smash 4 more than melee is fair just like it is the other way around. I like the slower more thought out gameplay to smash 4 and I think it's (to me) wrong to say that the players don't matter because everyone has the same gameplan. I'd argue that melee suffers as well from this due to most matches looking just about the same to me. Please respect each fandom as much as you can, both have their merits.

Liking Brawl over Smash 4, on the other hand... (mods nonwithstanding). Jokes aside, Sakurai has a bit of a stick up his colon with the approachability of the game, and he needs to take that out, as the series would benefit from that.

[QUOTE=Sift;48068952]I think liking smash 4 more than melee is fair just like it is the other way around. I like the slower more thought out gameplay to smash 4 and I think it's (to me) wrong to say that the players don't matter because everyone has the same gameplan. I'd argue that melee suffers as well from this due to most matches looking just about the same to me. Please respect each fandom as much as you can, both have their merits.[/QUOTE] Not to mention Smash 4 is more balanced character wise.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;48069008]Liking Brawl over Smash 4, on the other hand... (mods nonwithstanding). Jokes aside, Sakurai has a bit of a stick up his colon with the approachability of the game, and he needs to take that out, as the series would benefit from that.[/QUOTE] I do feel that his interpretation of what actually makes something more approachable incredibly bizarre and unituitive. Smash became popular in the first place because it was an aggressive game both at the casual and competitive level and almost all complaints I usually see from casual players are specifically at the very features (i.e. high amounts of defense, less kill power and gimping being less useful than in earlier titles) supposedly designed with them in mind, same deal with stages like Pyrosphere and Wily's Castle which seem to cater to some non-existent audience that like intrusive bosses interrupting every single aspect of the game or modes like Smash Tour which . . . . . . I don't even really understand what the point of that was for Smash, or why it somehow outprioritizes [i]options[/i] on the menu.

I would think to balance Rosalina, Luma should have increased health but a MUCH longer respawn time, much like how badly Popo suffers without Nana. The current time limit for Rosa means nothing and she can stall for that amount of time. Setting it to say, 2 minutes would eventually allow the other player to get hit on Rosa, as well as have the player be more cautious on when to send out Luma. As of now Lumas are incredibly expendable.

[QUOTE=Sift;48068952]I think liking smash 4 more than melee is fair just like it is the other way around. I like the slower more thought out gameplay to smash 4 and I think it's (to me) wrong to say that the players don't matter because everyone has the same gameplan. I'd argue that melee suffers as well from this due to most matches looking just about the same to me. Please respect each fandom as much as you can, both have their merits.[/QUOTE] things being flowcharty in a competitive game can either show how optimized the game is, or how new the game is. in general i think smash 4 players tend to play more flowcharty because they still havent fully developed optimal play for their character. in melee the flowcharty gameplay comes from 10 years of optimization, down to calculating what the best option is in each situation. on a somewhat related note, what are sonic's hitboxes like in smash 4? i vaguely remember grabbing a sonic while he was spin dashing on the 3ds version. if someone could consistently do that it would shut down a lot of sonic players who seem to mindlessly spin while you're on the ground/shielding

i think people would argue over whether smash 4 is fun to play mechanically but i dare you to find someone who thinks the stages aren't complete shit 90% of the time in this game like there's wacky schmacky stupid bullshit like Temple (Melee) and PokeFloats that are enjoyable because of how degenerate they become, there's srs bsnss stages like Battlefield And Friends, Yoshi's Island Brawl or Smashville/Town and City but so many of the smash 4 stages are either full bullshit with no fun or boring yet not fun for serious play not to mention all the missed potential. "Console games get stages on Wii U, handheld games get stages on 3DS" but we just got a shitton of Mario and Zelda levels, and all the classic underloved games on both system got ignored for New Super Mario Bros: Another One on both versions, etc. I'd love an Advance Wars stage on 3DS where tanks roll in, artillery fires at the stage and planes serve as fallthrough platforms flying in and out and COs activate powers every now and again. Or if the GB stage on 3DS wasn't just Sakurai Wanks Off To Dream Land 1 For The 100th Time and actually cycled through a bunch of GB games.

i don't get what people's issue is with sonic. i don't find him any more flowcharty than any of the other top tier characters and i reckon he's pretty fun to play, i like his aggressive style and the fact that he actually has decent approach options.

he's a pain to fight because by the time you realize he's coming at you he's already got his foot up your ass doing spin dashes

he's like if the flash ran up to you, slapped you and ran away before you could do anything and he doesn't try to slap you if there's any chance of you hitting him back but he slaps you when you go to tie you shoes or pick your nose, and if you just stand there waiting for him he'll do nothing

I'm not sure it could be just me but I find Brawl Sonic much more annoying than Smash 4 Sonic.

the best sonics are the ones that keep spindash-upairing well after you've caught onto their game and are consistently punishing them for it they are easy wins [editline]28th June 2015[/editline] I wonder if sonic was designed to be annoying intentionally, goes well with his radical 90s Capri sun kickflip chili dog personality

[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;48070821] I wonder if sonic was designed to be annoying intentionally, goes well with his radical 90s Capri sun kickflip chili dog personality[/QUOTE] which makes it all the more satisfying when you clobber him as Wario or give him a Luigi shoryuken because the silly bastard tried doing an Up-B to down air for the third time in a row. :v:

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;48070383]I'm not sure it could be just me but I find Brawl Sonic much more annoying than Smash 4 Sonic.[/QUOTE] I used to play with a guy who constantly used Sonic in the most annoying ways in Brawl. That guy didn't lasted very long in my friend list. I have still yet to meet a Sonic that piss me off as much as he did. But yeah they are still pretty fucking lame to watch in competitive.

Do we have any Falco mains in here? I hardly see anyone play him. I'm thinking about maining Falco...

[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;48070821]goes well with his radical 90s Capri sun kickflip chili dog personality[/QUOTE] why did they never have sonic grow out of that he's like Rocket Power: the videogame character it's annoying