[QUOTE=Craigewan;41845877]From our experience, a Ghost is as vital a part of the team as the Mastermind because of the ability to bag and move bodies. Our stealth insertion team is always a paired mastermind/ghost.[/QUOTE]A mastermind can stealth a mission alone if they have to. Its much harder if not virtually impossible for a ghost. The pager system is the ultimate decider in how well a stealth run goes. A ghost may be able to move bodies, but ultimately they can only handle two people before they can't do anything. A mastermind can tie up an entire room of civies, and can intimidate two guards (one as a convert), and use three (perhaps even four now from what I've seen people say) pagers. A mastermind is without a doubt necessary for any real stealth run, a ghost is just a nice assistant.
exotique reciever CAR has a QR code on it
I wish one could buy card drops of a specific type. I have like 4 million dollars now and all the weapons I want. So until they add Safehouse customization and storage upgrades I don't have anything to spend it on. I'd pay like 50-75k for a card type drop.
I find myself wishing for a lot of things for this game. Like the ability to send people masks and stuff.
It'd be interesting if payday 2 got steam inventory support.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;41845914]A mastermind can stealth a mission alone if they have to. Its much harder if not virtually impossible for a ghost. The pager system is the ultimate decider in how well a stealth run goes. A ghost may be able to move bodies, but ultimately they can only handle two people before they can't do anything. A mastermind can tie up an entire room of civies, and can intimidate two guards (one as a convert), and use three (perhaps even four now from what I've seen people say) pagers. A mastermind is without a doubt necessary for any real stealth run, a ghost is just a nice assistant.[/QUOTE]
It's a co-op game though, so you should never have just a mastermind. So the two complimenting each other is perfect. It's not meant to be solo'd by any one class. A Mastermind can do it, sure, because his skill tree is geared towards NPC control, but it gets a lot easier for the Mastermind if they have a a Ghost and even a tech along (for Silent Drilling). The Enforcer is the rock for when things finally go tits up, and also for moving the loot.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;41845925]It's a co-op game though, so you should never have just a mastermind. So the two complimenting each other is perfect. It's not meant to be solo'd by any one class. A Mastermind can do it, sure, because his skill tree is geared towards NPC control, but it gets a lot easier for the Mastermind if they have a a Ghost and even a tech along (for Silent Drilling). The Enforcer is the rock for when things finally go tits up, and also for moving the loot.[/QUOTE]You're entirely missing my point though. And this assumes you can have a readily available group of people to fill each role. The Ghost is supposed to be the stealth class, but they are frustratingly incapable at stealth. While the Mastermind who is largely about crowd control and support is absolutely necessary for virtually any stealth attempt. The Mastermind also invalidates the need for a Technician with sentry guns since they can continuously convert police who function just as well if not better since they can freely move around. Really the only role they can't fill is the Enforcer's tanking capability.
Mastermind has better intimidation, zip ties, and crowd control. Ghost has silent dispatching, safe lockpicking, ECM door-opening, and corpse bagging.
Speaking as someone who has all their points in Mastermind but plays with someone who is mostly Ghost, this is definitely a "grass is greener" type of comparison.
...Am I the only one that actually likes Framing Frame?
I have this odd bug... Dont know if I am just making alot more dosh then I notice but...
My spending cash seems to double time to time, I had like 1.5 million and I had before like barely enough to buy a P90
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41845951]Mastermind has better intimidation, zip ties, and crowd control. Ghost has silent dispatching, safe lockpicking, ECM door-opening, and corpse bagging.
Speaking as someone who has all their points in Mastermind but plays with someone who is mostly Ghost, this is definitely a "grass is greener" type of comparison.[/QUOTE]
Doctor Zedacon, this guy says everything that I've been saying by actually demonstrating what I mean best.
I'm not missing your point. I just don't think you really have one supported by the game. Mastermind is crowd-control and his skills are focused on that aspect of stealth, whereas the Ghost gets the skills above aimed at silent movement, being able to rob things fast, and make sure a stealth run does not go awry due to a found corpse.
They are meant to work together, and each is a viable way of playing the game.
So Payday 2 doesn't like computers with duel screens.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41845951]Mastermind has better intimidation, zip ties, and crowd control. Ghost has silent dispatching, safe lockpicking, ECM door-opening, and corpse bagging.
Speaking as someone who has all their points in Mastermind but plays with someone who is mostly Ghost, this is definitely a "grass is greener" type of comparison.[/QUOTE]The Ghost skills are almost entirely negated by the Mastermind though. First off, with 21 hours in the full game and 84 hours in the beta, I have never encountered a situation where someone has heard the drill running. I've actually been playing and had times where a guard would be less than five feet away from a drill and not notice at all. Second, if a Mastermind deals with the guards in a level then the concern over hearing someone drilling or needing a corpse bagged or any of that are entirely forgettable. With the guards down, its just a matter of knocking cameras out and keeping civies down. The only importance a Ghost has is that they can speed things up. But if you've got all the guards taken care of and the civies suppressed, it doesn't matter how much time you take.
[editline]15th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Craigewan;41845985]Doctor Zedacon, this guy says everything that I've been saying by actually demonstrating what I mean best.
I'm not missing your point. I just don't think you really have one supported by the game. Mastermind is crowd-control and his skills are focused on that aspect of stealth, whereas the Ghost gets the skills above aimed at silent movement, being able to rob things fast, and make sure a stealth run does not go awry due to a found corpse.
They are meant to work together, and each is a viable way of playing the game.[/QUOTE]I've actually used the real information from the game to show why the Ghost isn't necessary for Stealth in comparison to a Mastermind. You just keep saying "Well, that's not what the roles are for!" and "Well a Ghost can do this that is entirely superseded by the Mastermind's abilities."
Dunno about you guys, but I generally like to have a ghost with an upgraded jammer, it's pretty fucking important
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;41845914]A mastermind can stealth a mission alone if they have to. Its much harder if not virtually impossible for a ghost. The pager system is the ultimate decider in how well a stealth run goes. A ghost may be able to move bodies, but ultimately they can only handle two people before they can't do anything. A mastermind can tie up an entire room of civies, and can intimidate two guards (one as a convert), and use three (perhaps even four now from what I've seen people say) pagers. A mastermind is without a doubt necessary for any real stealth run, a ghost is just a nice assistant.[/QUOTE]
That's why you run ghost with cable ties and smooth talker. Non smooth talker solo=3/4 I don't know which, smooth talker =4/5
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;41845946]You're entirely missing my point though. And this assumes you can have a readily available group of people to fill each role. The Ghost is supposed to be the stealth class, but they are frustratingly incapable at stealth. While the Mastermind who is largely about crowd control and support is absolutely necessary for virtually any stealth attempt. The Mastermind also invalidates the need for a Technician with sentry guns since they can continuously convert police who function just as well if not better since they can freely move around. Really the only role they can't fill is the Enforcer's tanking capability.[/QUOTE]
Its a shame there arent enough levels to get all the stealthy stuff from mastermind and ghost trees...
Security guards don't reliably surrender though, atleast in my experience. The group I've been running with actually just kills the guards using our Ghost and bags the body. Maybe you are having better luck running Mastermind though. Unless you are talking about the pager skill, in which case it's low enough in the tree that you can easily get it and all of the stealth-related perks of Ghost. And intimidating civilians can be done without skill point investment in any tree, Masterminds are just better at it. Also, not every heist is as simple as neutralizing the guards and getting the civilians down. Lockpicking safes and opening doors with the ECM jammer are incredibly useful traits of the Ghost.
Also on the surface converted enemies appear better than sentries but in practice they are two different tools. Converts are decent shots and great bullet spongy diversions but their AI is cripplingly bad at times; I've had them sit in a corner the entire mission without firing a single shot. Sentries meanwhile are incredibly useful snap firebases that you can throw down relatively quickly and on the move. One sore spot though is the sheer point investment you need to put into them. Also I'll give you the silent drilling thing that Technician has is kind of pointless; I haven't seen anyone react to the sounds of drilling yet either.
That's a point. How many pagers can a smooth talker actually answer now? It used to only be three.
Also Zedacon, going back to your original point, I think a pager related skill should be in Ghost as well. If not the one you suggested (also suggested by the Ghost I play with, coincidentally) then just move Smooth Operator over to it somewhere
Damn i didn't realize you could only have 1 page of masks. Now i have to get rid of some for cooler ones.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41846151]Security guards don't reliably surrender though, atleast in my experience. The group I've been running with actually just kills the guards using our Ghost and bags the body. Maybe you are having better luck running Mastermind though. Unless you are talking about the pager skill, in which case it's low enough in the tree that you can easily get it and all of the stealth-related perks of Ghost. And intimidating civilians can be done without skill point investment in any tree, Masterminds are just better at it. Also, not every heist is as simple as neutralizing the guards and getting the civilians down. Lockpicking safes and opening doors with the ECM jammer are incredibly useful traits of the Ghost.
Also on the surface converted enemies appear better than sentries but in practice they are two different tools. Converts are decent shots and great bullet spongy diversions but their AI is cripplingly bad at times; I've had them sit in a corner the entire mission without firing a single shot. Sentries meanwhile are incredibly useful snap firebases that you can throw down relatively quickly and on the move. One sore spot though is the sheer point investment you need to put into them. Also I'll give you the silent drilling thing that Technician has is kind of pointless; I haven't seen anyone react to the sounds of drilling yet either.[/QUOTE]
Apparently it's broken. But I've seen people get notified in the bank of the drilling after I heard it was broken I thought I could just set up the thermal drill and they would pay no attention. No one looked at it. That might only be the thermal drill though. In the beta the normal drill on Nightclub alerted kitchen staff who came to investigate it.
[editline]15th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Craigewan;41846175]That's a point. How many pagers can a smooth talker actually answer now? It used to only be three.[/QUOTE]
I believe four. But I'm almost certain I did five when I solo stealthed the bank for all of the boxes. At least four anyway.
[QUOTE=Empty Memory;41846201]Apparently it's broken. But I've seen people get notified in the bank of the drilling after I heard it was broken I thought I could just set up the thermal drill and they would pay no attention. No one looked at it. That might only be the thermal drill though. In the beta the normal drill on Nightclub alerted kitchen staff who came to investigate it.[/QUOTE]
I've done a ton of Ukrainian Jobs where we just sneak in to the back rooms and slap the drills on and neither guards in the alley nor civilians up front hear the drill. Could be a map issue.
Going for [URL="http://goo.gl/8WbSK0"]this build[/URL]
Aced Cleaner and Sprinter gives to MM some serious magic in stealth and crowd-control.
after searching for a hole in the front of the safehouse I could shoot out onto the street through, I was annoyed to find that the civillians aren't killable
Um, i am getting an error when i try to create a game and i can't find any Online games nor i can join any invite.
Trying restarting steam.
My friends and I stealth'd Framing Frame on Hard, it was so fun. None of us had any skill points in Ghost either, we were mostly Masterminds and Technicians.
[url]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/613900631982153826/900A3A5A312753715AAC4374D3B22D5A62D4B5E3/[/url]
Man, I'm level 31 and have played nearly 10 hours but I haven't found a single mask.
Still got all the cool guy guns, though. Saving up for the AK5 when I hit 33.
[QUOTE=Hammer7;41846242]Going for [URL="http://goo.gl/8WbSK0"]this build[/URL]
Aced Cleaner and Sprinter gives to MM some serious magic in stealth and crowd-control.[/QUOTE]
Fuck that I wanna tactically blow shit up [url]http://www.pd2skills.info/profile/whats-a-lock/[/url]
Me and a friend actually Stealthed a Pro Job Framing Frame on Overkill. It was so fun, we stealthed all 3 days. I don't understand why people hate this heist. I play half ghost - half mastermind and my friend is half - enforcer and half - tech. It's such a fun coop experience especially on Day 1, where you go on the inside and the guy ontop is telling you about the paintings/guards/cams. And when he opens up a window and you toss a painting up so he can grab it. It's so satisfying having good teamwork.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41846474]Man, I'm level 31 and have played nearly 10 hours but I haven't found a single mask.
Still got all the cool guy guns, though. Saving up for the AK5 when I hit 33.[/QUOTE]
Same I haven't had one mask yet, only colours on mask cards.
I'm saving for the last AR.
[QUOTE=EDDY TT;41846481]Same I haven't had one mask yet, only colours on mask cards.
I'm saving for the last AR.[/QUOTE]
pretty much, but the materials i've gotten are shit, and i've yet to get any designs for my masks.
i mean what the fuck am i suppose to do? make a leather or wicker basket skull mask? shit's tacky as fuck.
So, I stealthed Framing Frames on Overkill. All 3 days. Got every single bag of gold. [I][B]Solo[/B].[/I]
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