The Elder Scrolls Megathread XV: A Song of Ice and Draugr - Games

[QUOTE=Valiantttt;41293032]Mages are kinda underpowered IMO. Having not a shield to block or stealth to avoid fighting in Skyrim is sure death(at least in Deadly Combat).[/QUOTE] I'm feeling the same way as a battle mage, you have to take hits with no way to block and if you get ganged you're fucked unless you spam potions and use a companion as a tank.

[QUOTE=Synelor;41296398]i always rekked with my mage maybe it was difficult in early levels but later on it was cakewalk[/QUOTE] Did you use any armor or shield or upgrade your health or did you rely on the alteration spells like stoneflesh?

Magic is totally shit in skyrim. It's also shit in oblivion, morrowind, daggerfall and arena. The Issues are: In morrowind, characters would do some majestic moving as they gather up the spell that will end you. In oblivion and skyrim the character just moves his arm a little. Maybe it's because i watched [I]Avatar[/I] in the past few months, but magic should realy look more involving. The spells are pretty weak too: why is 'fear' a binary spell that makes people run away if their level is below a chosen number? Why does nobody get angry at the player for using an obvious charm spell? why can't i choose how high i jump if my agility is augmented? why do i need to buy a spell that's essentially the same as my own spell, just more powerful? Why the fuck can't i walk on the ceiling, fly , or make fucking illusions (there's a fucking illusion skill and you can't even make people see things!! )

I just got that dawnbreaker sword, holy fucking shit its like nukes going off in dungeons. I was doing that bard quest and I ended up breaking the scripted undead rising limit and ended up having 30 odd undead exploding and running around the room due to being feared. I killed all of them by just smacking 3 of them with the nuke effect. This is the best sword ever.

[QUOTE=The Jack;41296855]Magic is totally shit in skyrim. It's also shit in oblivion, morrowind, daggerfall and arena. The Issues are: In morrowind, characters would do some majestic moving as they gather up the spell that will end you. In oblivion and skyrim the character just moves his arm a little. Maybe it's because i watched [I]Avatar[/I] in the past few months, but magic should realy look more involving. The spells are pretty weak too: why is 'fear' a binary spell that makes people run away if their level is below a chosen number? Why does nobody get angry at the player for using an obvious charm spell? why can't i choose how high i jump if my agility is augmented? why do i need to buy a spell that's essentially the same as my own spell, just more powerful? Why the fuck can't i walk on the ceiling, fly , or make fucking illusions [B](there's a fucking illusion skill and you can't even make people see things!! )[/B][/QUOTE] The fuck do you think the fear/charm spells are?

Also what exactly are Daedria? It seems they're kind of like demons but then they have leaders who are like Gods to mortals? But then there are actual Gods, so these guys are like demi-gods who can actually effect the mortal realm more intensively than the actual Gods?

I like to think the Fear spell make you look like some monstrous creature or other, whilst the Charm spell masks your words or somesuch nonsense. Truly I love roleplaying. Also, to commemorate me doing a Fate servant run, I decided to start up [I]another[/I] story to be tacked onto my repertoire. Expect some sue traits, small appearances by select characters, servants, and the Civil War storyline.

[QUOTE=Vasili;41297399]Also what exactly are Daedria? It seems they're kind of like demons but then they have leaders who are like Gods to mortals? But then there are actual Gods, so these guys are like demi-gods who can actually effect the mortal realm more intensively than the actual Gods?[/QUOTE] No daedric princes ARE gods, theyre just the ones who didnt participate in the creation of the world that TES takes place in.

[QUOTE=Vasili;41297399]Also what exactly are Daedria? It seems they're kind of like demons but then they have leaders who are like Gods to mortals? But then there are actual Gods, so these guys are like demi-gods who can actually effect the mortal realm more intensively than the actual Gods?[/QUOTE] Some form of angel-like beings. [editline]3rd July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=1chains1;41297462]No daedra ARE gods, theyre just the ones who didnt participate in the creation of the world that TES takes place in.[/QUOTE] I probably need to brush up on actual TES backsground lore again

- christ, I've gone and conflated categories while exactly trying to warn against it -

[QUOTE=1chains1;41297462]No daedric princes ARE gods, theyre just the ones who didnt participate in the creation of the world that TES takes place in.[/QUOTE] Godlike power, worshiped as gods, immortal, have personal realms where their followers go to after death. They're fucking gods, stop saying they're not gods people, they're gods. If the Daedra aren't gods then the greek gods aren't either, or the norse gods; cause those guys didn't create the world either.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;41297596]Godlike power, worshiped as gods, immortal, have personal realms where their followers go to after death. They're fucking gods, stop saying they're not gods people, they're gods. If the Daedra aren't gods then the greek gods aren't either, or the norse gods; cause those guys didn't create the world either.[/QUOTE] Not the right set of properties, though, if you're looking for certainty - what about the Shezarrines, who lack omnipotence or places to roam but questionably meet the requirement of "immortality" if you're willing to admit a definition of "being" that properly takes into account proxies? The Tribunal and Dagoth Ur also fall into the cracks: their powers are limited - in fact, they mutually exclude each other, and lack their nice holiday realms removed from Mundus. I'm convinced the only meaningful thing we can look at is whether a being seems to be imbued with superhuman power inherent in their being.

The Aedra are simply Daedra that gave up or were tricked out of the majority of their power in order to create Mundus and Nirn. So if Aedra are gods, then the Daedra are, by comparison, the Aedra's gods.

[QUOTE=Vasili;41297399]Also what exactly are Daedria? It seems they're kind of like demons but then they have leaders who are like Gods to mortals? But then there are actual Gods, so these guys are like demi-gods who can actually effect the mortal realm more intensively than the actual Gods?[/QUOTE] Daedric princes are gods, daedric creatures are just creatures of Oblivion rather than Mundus.

So wait, is Talos actually a divine? I feel like he's a metaphor for Jesus in a way. A mortal ascending into divinity and all. Although he had a fucking empire, he didn't suffer on a cross.

[QUOTE=HubmaN;41297705]Not the right set of properties, though, if you're looking for certainty - what about the Shezarrines, who lack omnipotence or places to roam but questionably meet the requirement of "mortality" if you're willing to stretch what it means to "be" at some point in time? The Tribunal and Dagoth Ur also fall into the cracks: their powers are limited - in fact, they mutually exclude each other, and lack a nice immortal relam.[/QUOTE] The Tribunal and Dagoth Ur [sp]stole their divine powers from Lorkhan's heart, an actual god, and when that connection was severed they lost their powers and became mortal and died.[/sp] Shezarrines from what I understand are basically demigod aspects of the dead God Lorkhan, and are not normally worshiped as gods themselves, save for Talos who's worshiped as a divine not for being a Shezarrine but for achieving Chim. The Daedric princes are worshiped as gods, have the actual powers of a god, and had they chosen to use their powers to make the world stable as the Aedra did they would be the Aedra.

[QUOTE=1chains1;41297462]No daedric princes ARE gods, theyre just the ones who didnt participate in the creation of the world that TES takes place in.[/QUOTE] Daedric princes are not gods, but they aren't mortal, they are more like demi-gods The only thing deadric princes have any true god-like power over are their own realms of Oblivion. However they love to meddle in the affairs of mortals, and like to be worshiped like gods. The daedra by and large are the magical beings that inhabit the realm of Oblivion, which isn't the mortal realm. People on the mortal realm (aka Nirn) worship daedra because of the power they flaunt. The gods are "actual gods" in the way you would think, but daedra worshippers don't worship the gods because like "actual gods" they are extremely backseat, to the point where people question their existence.

[QUOTE='[Green];41297740']So wait, is Talos actually a divine? I feel like he's a metaphor for Jesus in a way. A mortal ascending into divinity and all. Although he had a fucking empire, he didn't suffer on a cross.[/QUOTE] He became enlightened though CHIM and became a god himself, but his status as a god is based on his worship if I remember correctly, therefor the thalmor in skyrim trying to wipe out Talos worship is to remove his divine mantle.

[QUOTE=Forumaster;41297715]The Aedra are simply Daedra that gave up or were tricked out of the majority of their power in order to create Mundus and Nirn. So if Aedra are gods, then the Daedra are, by comparison, the Aedra's gods.[/QUOTE] Where is is stated that the Aedra (the divines) are actually daedra that just have no power? Because I'm pretty sure this isn't actually the case. The games make a pretty good point last I remember in various books and stuff to point out that the daedric princes don't have any real power outside of their realm, in the sense that they are basically no different than mortals but the realm of Oblivion just happens to have different laws of nature governing it that mortals (especially those that worship the daedra) perceive as god-like in power. And the Daedra like to take advantage of it because they often like to meddle in the affairs of mortals.

So the princes rule over there own world of what they're based upon, with their own minions following their theme? Though they don't offer immortality or an afterlife per say, nor do they really care about mortals other than for self amusement and egotism of being worshiped as/or Gods. They don't really appear to be Gods, just demonic creatures who are on the extremes of morality/elements/beliefs. Some seem to offer gifts or rewards for doing things for them which attracts worshipers but then you actually have princes the are dedicated to aspects of life like darkness, dusk and dawn etc, so I'm guessing they actually are these elements or they are just representing it. I'm guessing they were just demi-gods who have control over the minor elements that shape the world while the big gods control the rest? Its kind of confusing what the princes actual roles are in the lore and if they're actually part of the world and elements or just hijackers of aspects.

[QUOTE=KorJax;41297877]Daedric princes are not gods, but they aren't mortal, they are more like demi-gods The only thing deadric princes have any true god-like power over are their own realms of Oblivion. However they love to meddle in the affairs of mortals, and like to be worshiped like gods. The daedra by and large are the magical beings that inhabit the realm of Oblivion, which isn't the mortal realm. People on the mortal realm (aka Nirn) worship daedra because of the power they flaunt. The gods are "actual gods" in the way you would think, but daedra worshippers don't worship the gods because like "actual gods" they are extremely backseat, to the point where people question their existence.[/QUOTE] Daedra are MORE powerful then the Aedra but they're not the lords of the realm of Mundus, but they have still effected Mundus before, Azura cursed the Chimer and turned them into Dunmer for example. If they were as weak as the Adrea are do to their power loss then they wouldn't be able to effect mundus at all, but they're still at full strength and the only reason they use mortals to do their bidding is it's easier, they probably COULD do what they ask you to if they really wanted.

[QUOTE=Vasili;41297968] They don't really appear to be Gods, just demonic creatures who are on the extremes of morality/elements/beliefs. Some seem to offer gifts or rewards for doing things for them which attracts worshipers but then you actually have princes the are dedicated to aspects of life like darkness, dusk and dawn etc, so I'm guessing they actually are these elements or they are just representing it. I'm guessing they were just demi-gods who have control over the minor elements that shape the world while the big gods control the rest? Its kind of confusing what the princes actual roles are in the lore and if they're actually part of the world and elements or just hijackers of aspects.[/QUOTE] You're taking the wrong approach if you're wanting to figure out head from tail: MK and Bros., in all possibility, went "what are the properties gods usually have?" and ended up handing them out like candy to figures in the lore; the edge cases aren't there to test you but to make you conclude that a spectrum exists. (A bit of the pedantic: being worshipped as a god isn't a cast-iron standard, either: the HoonDing "manifests" in specific avatars - if you're to take the account as truth - but certainly isn't a being, but perhaps a very nice metaphor. I'm not sure what Dragonborn's added, but post-Bloodmoon the All-Maker was the most clearest as a synthetic combination of gods evolved from the usual pantheon - worshipped, but not "existing" as a single being at a specific point in time. And then there's the question of which account we're to take as truth and to what extent departing from it allows us to toss something in the traschan - the Monomyth and Where Were You...? should be required reading precisely because it whacks you on the head with the conclusion that in-game accounts are just that; and quite a lot of the citation on the UESP draws from those.)

[QUOTE=KorJax;41297943]Where is is stated that the Aedra (the divines) are actually daedra that just have no power? Because I'm pretty sure this isn't actually the case. The games make a pretty good point last I remember in various books and stuff to point out that the daedric princes don't have any real power outside of their realm, in the sense that they are basically no different than mortals but the realm of Oblivion just happens to have different laws of nature governing it that mortals (especially those that worship the daedra) perceive as god-like in power. And the Daedra like to take advantage of it because they often like to meddle in the affairs of mortals.[/QUOTE] The Daedra are powerful beings born from Pandomy; the force of chaos where the Aedra are born from Anu: the force of order. The Daedra refused to help create the realm of Mundus and instead formed their own realms, to say they're just normal beings in realms that don't follow the same rules is giving the Daedra very little credit.

From what I understand, the world of Mundus/Nirn is pretty much literally made out of (or at least held together at the seams by) the amalgamated bodies of the Aedra. They were more or less "sacrificed" in order to create that universe. The Daedra on the other hand didn't want any part of that and opted instead to each go off and create their own universes. As such, they don't have much direct influence over Mundus/Nirn as they aren't embedded into it's very essence as the Aedra are.

Fuck, why did bethsoft have to remove underwater combat? I would love it if dungeons had underwater segments that you would have to come back with a waterbreathing spell/potion/enchantment and actually have to fight things like dreughs and shit. Also I wish dreughs were in the game, along with other enemies like daedroths, scamps, clanfears, etc. Anyone know if monster mod works with Skyrim Redone?

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;41297158]The fuck do you think the fear/charm spells are?[/QUOTE] They're not propper illusions though. Fear: The enemy just runs away if they've got a low level. I mean a high leveled coward is not going to be afraid whilst a foolhardy low level mage IS going to run. There aren't even different ways that they might react to that 'fear' spell (shaking,poorer judgement, adrenalin buffs, crying and collapsing, the odd heart attack). It should be called the 'spell of compulsive running' or something stupid like that. Charm is just as bad. You'd be pretty pissed if you felt that you were manipulated in such a way. Furthermore... What if you were to charm some kind of sadistic rape fella? Would he decide not to attack you because he's feeling friendly or would he double his efforts because he's feeling extra friendly? Anyway. I was mostly thinking of illusion conjuration. The fun that you could have with making people see things that aren't there. illusions of characters or fake bridges over deadly chasms. Convincing a group of bandits that their leader is a monstrous vampire... the possibilities are delightful.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;41297596]Godlike power, worshiped as gods, immortal, have personal realms where their followers go to after death. They're fucking gods, stop saying they're not gods people, they're gods. If the Daedra aren't gods then the greek gods aren't either, or the norse gods; cause those guys didn't create the world either.[/QUOTE] Sorry I forgot a comma, it was meant to say "no, daedric princes are gods just the ones who didnt participate in the creation of the world TES takes place in" Read the entire sentence and realize that the way you read it makes no sense.

[QUOTE=The Jack;41298804]They're not propper illusions though. Fear: The enemy just runs away if they've got a low level. I mean a high leveled coward is not going to be afraid whilst a foolhardy low level mage IS going to run. There aren't even different ways that they might react to that 'fear' spell (shaking,poorer judgement, adrenalin buffs, crying and collapsing, the odd heart attack). It should be called the 'spell of compulsive running' or something stupid like that. Charm is just as bad. You'd be pretty pissed if you felt that you were manipulated in such a way. Furthermore... What if you were to charm some kind of sadistic rape fella? Would he decide not to attack you because he's feeling friendly or would he double his efforts because he's feeling extra friendly? Anyway. I was mostly thinking of illusion conjuration. The fun that you could have with making people see things that aren't there. illusions of characters or fake bridges over deadly chasms. Convincing a group of bandits that their leader is a monstrous vampire... the possibilities are delightful.[/QUOTE] Midas Magic has illusion spells in the literal sense, you can conjure a fake beast that draws enemy fire or makes them flee. In fact, Midas Magic has a lot of interesting things.

[QUOTE=1chains1;41298844]Sorry I forgot a comma, it was meant to say "no, daedric princes are gods just the ones who didnt participate in the creation of the world TES takes place in" Read the entire sentence and realize that the way you read it makes no sense.[/QUOTE] Well, never mind then, thanks for clearing that up.

Kharjo was my bro. [editline]3rd July 2013[/editline] Kharjbro