The Elder Scrolls Megathread XV: A Song of Ice and Draugr - Games

[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;41299463]Having companions really stops being cool when they end up being too dumb to properly walk through dungeons.[/QUOTE] Unrelenting force is your friend when they block your way. But for me, companions are just annoying mules.

[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;41298399]From what I understand, the world of Mundus/Nirn is pretty much literally made out of (or at least held together at the seams by) the amalgamated bodies of the Aedra. They were more or less "sacrificed" in order to create that universe. The Daedra on the other hand didn't want any part of that and opted instead to each go off and create their own universes. As such, they don't have much direct influence over Mundus/Nirn as they aren't embedded into it's very essence as the Aedra are.[/QUOTE] Close Lorkhan was the aedra used to make nirn and (I think?) the moons Masser and Secunda, and it was a voluntary effort on Lorkhan's part, I think also. The other divines scorned him, as far as I can tell for this, and otherwise were not involved in Nirn's birth. Lorkhan's heart as such becomes a centerpiece for many of the stories in the elder scrolls lore, and its the central catalyst to the plot in Morrowind.

[QUOTE=The Jack;41298804]They're not propper illusions though. Fear: The enemy just runs away if they've got a low level. I mean a high leveled coward is not going to be afraid whilst a foolhardy low level mage IS going to run. There aren't even different ways that they might react to that 'fear' spell (shaking,poorer judgement, adrenalin buffs, crying and collapsing, the odd heart attack). It should be called the 'spell of compulsive running' or something stupid like that. Charm is just as bad. You'd be pretty pissed if you felt that you were manipulated in such a way. Furthermore... What if you were to charm some kind of sadistic rape fella? Would he decide not to attack you because he's feeling friendly or would he double his efforts because he's feeling extra friendly? Anyway. I was mostly thinking of illusion conjuration. The fun that you could have with making people see things that aren't there. illusions of characters or fake bridges over deadly chasms. Convincing a group of bandits that their leader is a monstrous vampire... the possibilities are delightful.[/QUOTE] What's to say you're not making the target of your spell see something that isn't there? If you cast it on them and you can see it, then surely they're seeing something that IS there.

[QUOTE=KorJax;41299849]Close Lorkhan was the aedra used to make nirn and (I think?) the moons Masser and Secunda, and it was a voluntary effort on Lorkhan's part, I think also. The other divines scorned him, as far as I can tell for this, and otherwise were not involved in Nirn's birth. Lorkhan's heart as such becomes a centerpiece for many of the stories in the elder scrolls lore, and its the central catalyst to the plot in Morrowind.[/QUOTE] Lorkhan made Nirn and in some stories chose to become the land and in others was ripped apart by the divines as punishment for being an idiot and making mortals. One interesting thing of note is that Lorkhan was born from Pandomy, like the Daedra and not Anu like the Divines/Aedra, making Lorkhan a daedric prince.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;41300264]Lorkhan made Nirn and in some stories chose to become the land and in others was ripped apart by the divines as punishment for being an idiot and making mortals. One interesting thing of note is that Lorkhan was born from Pandomy, like the Daedra and not Anu like the Divines/Aedra, making Lorkhan a daedric prince.[/QUOTE] i don't think that's true, that the et'Ada are classified as Aedra or Daedra because they were born from either Anu or Pa[b]dhoma[/b]y pretty sure A&P and their interactions with each other formed Aurbis, the grounds for creation, and the et'Ada and the rest were formed out of that--not specifically A or P. then, when mundus was planned, the et'Ada who were absorbed into its creation became know as the Aedra, and those who declined or escaped (see: everyone else), Daedra.

I love reading when you guys discuss lore, that's the primary reason I come here :v:

[QUOTE=Excalibuurr;41302069]Too bad in the end, they're just moons and shit.[/QUOTE] And what exactly makes you so sure of this? All the scientific reasoning you could have that would support the belief that they'd be just dead objects much like the counter parts in our universe is very much abolished by the obvious fact that there is practically no doubt there is magic, godlike beings and other realms/worlds in TES uinverse. Ofcourse they could just be moons, planets and such or/and that every divine/unreasonable thing in TES is an illusion, but that seems utterly unlikely. So once again, what exactly do you think when you make that implication?

[QUOTE=Excalibuurr;41302069]Too bad in the end, they're just moons and shit.[/QUOTE] Next you'll tell us the sun isn't a massive hole in the universe ripped open by a god trying to leave the creation of the world, what is it then, some kind of ball of burning gas. you're crazy.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;41302312]Next you'll tell us the sun isn't a massive hole in the universe ripped open by a god trying to leave the creation of the world, what is it then, some kind of ball of burning gas. You're crazy.[/QUOTE] but things cant burn in space because theres no air ther! /religiousguyimression

The thing is, what if it is just that? moons and shit. What if all this magic and divine thinking is just in our minds, much like it was in the minds of the people of medieval times? Obviously all logic goes against that - but I think that's actually used a lot in TES lore, not everything is true and literal, much of the lore may be symbolic or exagarated by the people in the TES world who have written it down - no doubt atleast some of it is.

Someone featured my mod on a japanese blog thing [url]http://dragonporn.ldblog.jp/archives/7204631.html[/url] It's.. flattering and kind of creepy.

[QUOTE=Excalibuurr;41302352]They don't do much anymore, they're just there now.[/QUOTE] What kind of thing is that to say? Do you say the same about history? "It's irrelevant", pfft

[QUOTE=Excalibuurr;41302352]They don't do much anymore, they're just there now. The daedric princes sometimes interfere in the mortal world, but that's usually stopped by some hero. [/QUOTE] The moons are DEAD gods, why would they do anything.

God I love this song for nights [video=youtube;Y0w9tPnYX2I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0w9tPnYX2I[/video]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD7O7yG2zzo&list=PLDE99FD58657D1E59[/media] Such great traveling music.

Since we're talking of lore ;The one thing i don't get is... [I]Note: when i say 'solar system's sky' i mean the layer that surrounds all the planets (nirn and the daedric planes) separating them from the chaotic magic on the other side [/I] If the sun is literally a hole in the sky (well, the solar system's edge) does that mean that Nirn orbits an empty centre of the solar system? That would allow seasons to occur. And if the sky is full of holes, how do some of these move independently? (the serpent)

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;41302390]The moons are DEAD gods, why would they do anything.[/QUOTE] Well for dead gods they certainly do have the ability to make khajiits into very different forms depending on what phase the moon is in when they are born

[QUOTE=The Jack;41302560]Since we're talking of lore ;The one thing i don't get is... [I]Note: when i say 'solar system's sky' i mean the layer that surrounds all the planets (nirn and the daedric planes) separating them from the chaotic magic on the other side [/I] If the sun is literally a hole in the sky (well, the solar system's edge) does that mean that Nirn orbits an empty centre of the solar system? That would allow seasons to occur. And if the sky is full of holes, how do some of these move independently? (the serpent)[/QUOTE] Magic.

[QUOTE=Excalibuurr;41302631]Exactly my point. No longer influencing the world. Just moons. [/QUOTE] Would you call our moon "just a rock"

Who is to say they are justmoons anyway, dead gods or not, who knows what happens on those moons or what kind of hidden magic they may posses?

[QUOTE=The Jack;41302560]Since we're talking of lore ;The one thing i don't get is... [I]Note: when i say 'solar system's sky' i mean the layer that surrounds all the planets (nirn and the daedric planes) separating them from the chaotic magic on the other side [/I] If the sun is literally a hole in the sky (well, the solar system's edge) does that mean that Nirn orbits an empty centre of the solar system? That would allow seasons to occur. And if the sky is full of holes, how do some of these move independently? (the serpent)[/QUOTE] The serpent is the only constellation that moves, and the lore wiki states that it is made up of "unstars", whatever that means. But yes, stars (and the sun) are holes in the "Oblivion viel" that surrounds mundus, with Aethereus (the source of all magic, where souls that aren't bound to something else go to die and where the aedra are believed to live) being the source of light. The blackness and what mundus (the mortal realm) drifts about in is Oblivion. Khajiit believe that Masser and Secunda (the moons) are the lattice that protects mundus from the power of of the aetherius Keep in mind all of the above mostly amount to be from legends, beliefs and evidence leftover (such as the elder scrolls themselves, lorkhan's heart, the daedra themselves, etc). It's also believed that constellations and various astral bodies you can see are all imperfect "reflections" of sorts of the actual planes of Oblivion/Aethereus that surround mundus

[QUOTE=The Jack;41302560]Since we're talking of lore ;The one thing i don't get is... [I]Note: when i say 'solar system's sky' i mean the layer that surrounds all the planets (nirn and the daedric planes) separating them from the chaotic magic on the other side [/I] If the sun is literally a hole in the sky (well, the solar system's edge) does that mean that Nirn orbits an empty centre of the solar system? That would allow seasons to occur. And if the sky is full of holes, how do some of these move independently? (the serpent)[/QUOTE] The universe is structured rather oddly, explanations like "a hole in the sky" are just vague simplifications to make the idea more comprehensible. For example, Oblivion is an infinite space. So is Aetherius, but Oblivion is "inside" Aetherius somehow. The planets that house the realms of the 8 Divines are also infinite spaces, floating about inside the infinite space of Oblivion, inside Aetherius. Since Oblivion and Aetherius are infinite, the holes left by the sun and stars are only perceived as being on a "layer" when really there is no specific location of the border between Oblivion and Aetherius. What mortals see when they look up at the sky is described as a sort of "stress reaction" as their brain simplifies something it can't comprehend (infinity). This is also why the 8 divines are seen as "planets" or "bubbles", that's how the mortal mind copes with seeing infinity inside infinity. One way I often hear of describing the structure of it all is that it's like a wheel, Nirn/Mundus is the hub, the 8 Divines are the spokes that hold the hub in place, the realms of Oblivion are the gaps in between the spokes, and Aetherius wraps around it all. So Nirn probably doesn't really orbit anything, just sort of sits at the centre and spins. Or something. So yeah, probably makes even less sense now. [SUB](this is all rough understanding from the top of my head, I didn't really go back and re-read anything here)[/SUB]

I thought the deadra were planets, the aedra were part of nirn?

See this is why elder scrolls is awesome and why Morrowind was awesome because it was home to all sorts of information like this if you looked for it and asked around enough Its why it makes me sad to see stuff like ESO being made to basically completely ignore all of this for the sake of a "cool moments" and simply just name-dropping the lore as if it was some kid trying to be trendy by saying "cool" words and dressing trendy. Also why its sad to see elder scrolls as a series (especially in skyrim) basically give lore the backseat as well, and not put any care into it in favor of simply making it take place in the universe with no other similarities and to put as much flashy shit as possible to make it appealing. Because what kind of CoD-kiddy who plays skyrim on the side [I]would ever care to read about bullshit like the above?[/I]

The elder scrolls is a boring generic fantasy setting until you dig into the lore, then it's amazing.

[QUOTE=Rapist;41293615]Going to play Morrowind for the first time later today. Woo.[/QUOTE] Moved to tomorrow, still, woo!

I rarely read any books in TES and have a hard time paying attention to the lore in the games while playing but sometimes I just find myself so curious about a thing that I look it up on the wiki and these discussions are much more interesting. That's the most amazing part of any fantasy universe, where you play/read/watch a game/book/movie and while you're going through the story and mostly paying attention to that, sometimes you just find yourself with a character, an object or a place in the story - perhaps something that is just mentioned - and you just feel so curious you want to know more about it because you know there [I]is[/I] more to know about it. Everything that is there in this world has a motivation or a reason for why it is there and why it appears or behaves in the way it does, every little thing is it's own character with it's own minor or abstract role in the universe, much like our real one.

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;41302358]Someone featured my mod on a japanese blog thing [URL]http://dragonporn.ldblog.jp/archives/7204631.html[/URL] It's.. flattering and kind of creepy.[/QUOTE] Dragonporn is an actually good site.

So yeah, just spent a while running around Windhelm, looking for the model child who put a contract on his former carer's head. Then I realised there was one of those arrow things on the compass that lead me to the door.

Rabbit people? I find that creepy but comical and cool in a weird way at the same time, quite original :v: