The Elder Scrolls Megathread XV: A Song of Ice and Draugr - Games

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42003952]No, morrowind uses an entirely different system. Dodging is just one of the many layers of combat mechanics in morrowind and is unrelated to armor. The armor value = dodging chance is [I]cancer[/I]. Fallout 1/2 uses that, how does wearing a set of 300 pound power armor make you dodge bullets? It makes no intuitive sense and is yet another example of terribly antiquated D&D mechanics making their way into places where they shouldn't be.[/QUOTE] A dodge with that mechanic is essentially the same as a hit with no damage, its irrelevant in the form it is taken as, Power armor against regular projectiles does nothing, would you rather the screen say "Hit - 0 damage" Its not really intuitive either way. Given the fact that if you had an armor mechanic and a dodge mechanic, it would make no intuitive sense for you to be able to dodge in powerarmor, but if you had leather armor and a higher chance of dodging you can escape the unbelievability of taking a bullet to the chest through a leather piece rather than calculating a mitigation against that hit even though by all rights you would be dying. In games without dodge animations the question of evasion or reduction is moot and the preferred would be evasion calculations for its easy application to all armor types given my previous statement. In regards to Morrowind, I mistook the armor for the fatigue mechanic of hit % and evasion, both mechanics in conjunction are still preferrable within an RPG setting, in a fully realized combat simulator like chivalry or mount n blade, these are trivial as your character has complete control and deaths are certain if you get connected.

I don't get why people don't just make intuitive combat. Have armor behave like armor, have weapons behave like weapons. You can't go wrong with a combat system that represents the intensity and brutality of armored melee combat, it'll always be fun and satisfying to play. On top of that there's no reason why you can't make a functional and intelligently designed skill system on top of solid foundation of working and detailed combat mechanics. [QUOTE=Kragujevac;42004040]in a fully realized combat simulator like chivalry or mount n blade, these are trivial as your character has complete control and deaths are certain if you get connected.[/QUOTE] This is also not true, perhaps for multiplayer somewhat, but not for singleplayer. Many things factor in to how effective armor is in protecting the character from specific types of attacks and it's not a straight up "crossbow always does 50 damage" scenario. Chivalry is different as it has no fleshed out armor mechanics.

So I'm doing the battle for Windhelm, and every time I kill ulfric it says I fail to kill ulfric, and fail to regain Eastmarch, then Rikke and Tulius are just standing there staring at me, and respond with the generic lines when I speak to them. Uh. Help?

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42004041]I don't get why people don't just make intuitive combat. Have armor behave like armor, have weapons behave like weapons. You can't go wrong with a combat system that represents the intensity and brutality of armored melee combat, it'll always be fun and satisfying to play. On top of that there's no reason why you can't make a functional and intelligently designed skill system on top of solid foundation of working and detailed combat mechanics.[/QUOTE] I don't know really much of anything about coding but it seems it would be an insane amount of work, especially the dynamicity of combat and hitting certain points of armor can achieve varied results, and the free flowing attacks of a someone with a weapon would be a lot to graph, I too wish that games had real combat mechanics but games like that are usually on the fringe, Arma, chivalry etc. Skyrims combat smoothness is enjoyable but it could benefit a lot more from an in-depth relook, currently I just spam heavy attacks and back-peddle. Smarter AI would also help, but that's another thing lacking with bethesda, and quite a few other popular games.

Best thing that could happen to TES would be to get melee mechanics from Mount & Blade or from Chivalry. It can be kind of entertaining and fun in skyrim with the right mods but its still nothing too great.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42004041]I don't get why people don't just make intuitive combat. Have armor behave like armor, have weapons behave like weapons. You can't go wrong with a combat system that represents the intensity and brutality of armored melee combat, it'll always be fun and satisfying to play. On top of that there's no reason why you can't make a functional and intelligently designed skill system on top of solid foundation of working and detailed combat mechanics. This is also not true, perhaps for multiplayer somewhat, but not for singleplayer. Many things factor in to how effective armor is in protecting the character from specific types of attacks and it's not a straight up "crossbow always does 50 damage" scenario. Chivalry is different as it has no fleshed out armor mechanics.[/QUOTE] Currently they are the closest to a true simulator though, as i've said I don't know really much about coding but doing so would seem quite the task.

Skyrim's AI is actually pretty good, bethesda just set the aggressiveness and NPC skill values to be on permanent easypeasy mode. They only utilize like 25% of the NPC's combat capabilities. If you hop into the CK and tweak the AI behavior you can make some seriously challenging combat.

Interesting, I may do that, any guide to doing that by chance?

I made a mod for it a while ago, but I still only used a fraction of it. [url]http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18794/?[/url] (haven't checked it in almost a year) I can't remember precisely, but it was called "Combat Styles" and usually each style of NPC has a particular combat style assigned to it. There's sliders to change how aggressive they are when attacking in groups, and how often they block your attacks and use shield bash. There's a bunch of categories for falmer, vampires, forsworn, etc. All the styles by default were set so NPCs just act really dumb and cowardly, so they basically form drum circles around you in combat and take turns attacking.

Is there a mod that allows you to skip or ignore the 'put 10 points into magicka/health/stamina' thing?

Who here has fought the Ebony Warrior and didn't get royally ass fucked by him at least once?

I've only managed to make it to level 65 :{ I have a Jarin Root poison that does 4036 damage, though. I've been saving it for him.

I never thought of that to be honest. But..how the crap did you get 4k damage?

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;42004266]Who here has fought the Ebony Warrior and didn't get royally ass fucked by him at least once?[/QUOTE] I've taken him on. [img]http://puu.sh/4dBJJ.jpg[/img]

What the game lacks is complete immersion, it actually feels like there's almost none to very little at all.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42004041]Chivalry is different as it has no fleshed out armor mechanics.[/QUOTE] it actually does, but it's mostly undocumented. as of right now, each class is considered to have a different type of armor. archers are weakest to slash attacks, vanguards are susceptible to pierces, and knights take the most damage from blunt type weapons the weapons are classified accordingly too. all the swords and knives are slash+pierce, all the non-pole axes are pure slash, all the spears are pierce+slash, all the archer's projectiles are pierce. the cudgel, mace, maul, warhammer, and quarterstaff are pure blunt. the spiked mace and holy water sprinkler are blunt+pierce. the polearms are varied; the bardiche, billhook, halberd, and poleaxe are slash+pierce, while the polehammer is blunt+pierce, and the bearded axe is pure slash, etc... elder scrolls VI could learn from it, really

The problem with Chivalry's combat in a TES game is that it has a lot of techniques that look weird and break immersion

So, I've just discovered the horrors of script lag. As in, my guard gets broken but I don't get staggered from the blow until a full 5 seconds later. Also, my hunting mod I'm using takes about 20 seconds to pop up the menu when field dressing animals instead of instant. Welp, came across this: [url]http://www.loverslab.com/topic/15454-solutions-to-slow-running-scripts-in-skyrim/[/url] Gonna try it out. [editline]29th August 2013[/editline] Also glad I decided to playtest before releasing it. Turns out, for some reason a lot of light armor I equip is considered heavy armor by my mod, and sometimes its considered both heavy and light armor :v: gotta figure that one out and/or blame the fact that this bandit armor mod (which pretty much affects all low-level armors) failed to properly keyword their armor :P Also leveling is waaaaayy to slow.

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;42004933]it actually does, but it's mostly undocumented. as of right now, each class is considered to have a different type of armor. archers are weakest to slash attacks, vanguards are susceptible to pierces, and knights take the most damage from blunt type weapons the weapons are classified accordingly too. all the swords and knives are slash+pierce, all the non-pole axes are pure slash, all the spears are pierce+slash, all the archer's projectiles are pierce. the cudgel, mace, maul, warhammer, and quarterstaff are pure blunt. the spiked mace and holy water sprinkler are blunt+pierce. the polearms are varied; the bardiche, billhook, halberd, and poleaxe are slash+pierce, while the polehammer is blunt+pierce, and the bearded axe is pure slash, etc... elder scrolls VI could learn from it, really[/QUOTE] I realize that (since the thrusting dagger says it prices armor, I think) however it's such a small feature and does very little. Like a vanguard is decked out in full body riveted chainmail and they can lose an arm to a hunting knife slash, it's a bit silly. [editline]29th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Altimor;42004988]The problem with Chivalry's combat in a TES game is that it has a lot of techniques that look weird and break immersion[/QUOTE] Not like a lot of the stuff in TES doesn't already look weird and break immersion. Like seeing enemies weapons casually passing through each others bodies during combat animations and such, at least in M&B and chivalry there's a clear sense of impact.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42005077]I realize that (since the thrusting dagger says it prices armor, I think) however it's such a small feature and does very little. Like a vanguard is decked out in full body riveted chainmail and they can lose an arm to a hunting knife slash, it's a bit silly.[/QUOTE] Balance is almost never realistic [QUOTE=KorJax;42005028]So, I've just discovered the horrors of script lag. As in, my guard gets broken but I don't get staggered from the blow until a full 5 seconds later. Also, my hunting mod I'm using takes about 20 seconds to pop up the menu when field dressing animals instead of instant. Welp, came across this: [url]http://www.loverslab.com/topic/15454-solutions-to-slow-running-scripts-in-skyrim/[/url] Gonna try it out. [editline]29th August 2013[/editline] Also glad I decided to playtest before releasing it. Turns out, for some reason a lot of light armor I equip is considered heavy armor by my mod, and sometimes its considered both heavy and light armor :v: gotta figure that one out and/or blame the fact that this bandit armor mod (which pretty much affects all low-level armors) failed to properly keyword their armor :P Also leveling is waaaaayy to slow.[/QUOTE] Hey can you NSFW tag that If you want any native code to supplement your papyrus I can write you SKSE plugins

How come when I start a new game, the next time I save a new file with that new character the number continues from the last save I made? It's kind of annoying.

[QUOTE=Altimor;42005144]Balance is almost never realistic [/QUOTE] Daggermen were an essential part of medieval warfare during ambushes and assaults. They simply weren't cutting peoples arms off with butter knifes, it's really not a hard concept to grasp and represent. They could have just applied very large bonus damage for dagger thrusts that hit the face and head (really not hard to program in) [URL="http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo205/cheekyknight/13th%20c%20Dagger/dagger.gif"]as that's what people used daggers for... thrusting into open faced helmets or into the visors on great helmets[/URL] At the risk of turning this into the Chivalry thread 2.0, suffice it to say there are thousands of ways to represent concepts realistically while still maintaining asymmetrical balance, and that applies to [I]all games.[/I] Especially TES since they keep leaving terrible gameplay flaws in every title.

so i started up morrowind again [img]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903258160767515313/4EF7B261E709D1AB269BAB6DDEFD5A516504A4F1/[/img] i miss the class system

[QUOTE=Altimor;42004988]The problem with Chivalry's combat in a TES game is that it has a lot of techniques that look weird and break immersion[/QUOTE] Most TES game's combat looks weird and breaks immersion for me anyway, so something like Chiv's would be a welcome addition IMO. I mean hell whether you play the original games or the newest ones, the biggest semblance of technique you'll find is either the "I'm going to do the same attack over and over" technique, or the "I'm going to flail my weapon about" technique, albeit they try to make it look cooler in Skyrim. The only games were different attacks really mattered were Daggerfall and Morrowind, but Morrowind had a best attack for each weapon type which mitigated the purpose of changing it up anyway, and daggerfall's was basically the higher you leveled the skill the more powerful attacks you could successfully do.

I think the best attack thing in morrowind only factors in the highest maximum potential damage factor With a number of weapons certain attacks have a high [I]minimum[/I] damage, such as the thrusting attacks on broadswords and shortswords, meaning that you can attack really quickly, do decent damage and stunlock your opponent. Daggers are often underrated in morrowind but they have a high minimum damage meaning you can just slash the shit out of people without needed to charge up your attack.

The problem is that no matter what you do to the combat, the leveled, boring, copypasted enemies who have guaranteed, predictable combat routines and equipment are still there. As long as leveling, in whatever imaginable form, means you can beat something you couldn't before then you have an RPG. There has to be some measure of change between the world and the player. Combat is open to all kinds of flexibility and change if the other half of the equation is functional. Vanilla Skyrim is just a treadmill.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42004258]I made a mod for it a while ago, but I still only used a fraction of it. [url]http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18794/?[/url] (haven't checked it in almost a year) I can't remember precisely, but it was called "Combat Styles" and usually each style of NPC has a particular combat style assigned to it. There's sliders to change how aggressive they are when attacking in groups, and how often they block your attacks and use shield bash. There's a bunch of categories for falmer, vampires, forsworn, etc. All the styles by default were set so NPCs just act really dumb and cowardly, so they basically form drum circles around you in combat and take turns attacking.[/QUOTE] How does this compare to ASIS? Do they both pretty much do the same thing? [editline]29th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Altimor;42005144]Balance is almost never realistic Hey can you NSFW tag that If you want any native code to supplement your papyrus I can write you SKSE plugins[/QUOTE] That sounds neat but I don't know what I'd use that for :o I think my issue was I was checking for keywords like armor heavy and armor light (heavy armor was the first thing I worked on so its much more nooby-made than other skills) and mods that stupidly have both types on one armor or something like that throw it off. SKSE has functions built in to actually detect the armor type though without the keywords so I'm sure if I use that then it'll fix my current issue.

[QUOTE=KorJax;42005564]How does this compare to ASIS? Do they both pretty much do the same thing? [/QUOTE] Nah, asis looks more akin to new scripted behavior and more enemies. My mod just makes combatants more opportunistic fighters and makes them attack more effectively/aggressively in groups. I wanted more difficulty without changing enemy stats [editline]29th August 2013[/editline] The only correct way of hunting deer IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US [IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/u34mei.gif[/IMG]

They need better coders than anything else. They should be able to put down buildings and have their interiors and occupants created automatically so that they can create huge cities with ease. People that do interesting things. Like busk on the street, attracting crowds to themselves, pickpockets in the crowds. People throwing chamberpots out of windows, Builders which repair damaged buildings. Most npcs should just have randomly generated names and generic topics to talk about. we've never needed everyone to have unique responses. A huge city, Acrobatics,sneak, security,magic, the ability to blend in with commoners, the ability to smash doors down... It would be paradise for anyone wanting to play a thief or assassin.

I hope we don't have to wait as long as we did for skyrim after oblivion for bethesda to start making the next.