The Elder Scrolls Megathread XV: A Song of Ice and Draugr - Games

Forbidden Legend was actually a really fun quest

Bought Dawnguard and Dragonborn and I have to say, Solstheim is a nice change of pace from Skyrim.

For all the crap that I think Skyrim did wrong, Solstheim did hit me with nostalgia, I'll give them that.

Biggest piss-off is that Solstheim tears you out of immersion by forcing you to act like you know nothing about the setting. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] It's just defeating to have a nostalgia DLC that essentially pretends everyone playing it has never heard of Morrowind.

yeah but i'd be willing to bet a large chunk of people playing skyrim - or oblivion - has never played morrowind (up to bloodmoon, to get specific) [b]edit[/b] at least in my opinion, morrowind is really like one of those games people claim to have played, put five minutes into it, got nowhere because it doesn't babysit the player, and never got anywhere meaningful questline-wise other than senseless slaughter n' loot. i don't even think a lot of the bethesda employees have completed it [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] not that that justifies any of the changes

Exactly. The reason i tend to have such a chip on my shoulder when people talk about Morrowind being built purely on nostalgia is basically that. The caliber of creativity and thought that went into crafting Morrowind's world still generates the interest, reputation and content that the sequels thrive on, while people paradoxically have a meltdown over missing when they swing a weapon in Morrowind. And then come back to Skyrim only to complain about its mechanical failures. Worst of all is that all of the games feel like pieces from a different puzzle. Bethesda seem let something different slip through their fingers every release, and the current development team just feels like it's completely failed to retroactively understand why Morrowind generated the franchise's success -- and makes you wonder if they've even played it.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;42441042]I want to start Skyrim again but I believe I need more mods. I have quite a few already, but who cares. List me some good ones and I'll see if I have them. Don't bother with the ones in the OP.[/QUOTE] I'm quite fond of TK Combat, TK Dodge and Ultimate Combat. Adds dodging, special melee and ranged moves, timed blocking, and changes enemy combat behaviour.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;42441042]I want to start Skyrim again but I believe I need more mods. I have quite a few already, but who cares. List me some good ones and I'll see if I have them. Don't bother with the ones in the OP.[/QUOTE] Requiem turns Skyrim into a pale shadow of Dark Souls

[QUOTE=Kommodore;42440753]Biggest piss-off is that Solstheim tears you out of immersion by forcing you to act like you know nothing about the setting. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] It's just defeating to have a nostalgia DLC that essentially pretends everyone playing it has never heard of Morrowind.[/QUOTE] Oh my god this, fucking this. The first dialog I got on Solsthiem was "WHAT'S THE TRIBUNAL" followed by "WHO ARE HOUSE HLAALU" I know this shit already Beth.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442027]Oh my god this, fucking this. The first dialog I got on Solsthiem was "WHAT'S THE TRIBUNAL" followed by "WHO ARE HOUSE HLAALU" I know this shit already Beth.[/QUOTE] You as the player knows this shit, but the Dragonborn character himself/herself doesn't. Are these questions forced down your throat, or can you skip them and continue on with exploration and questing? It's really doesn't seem like a big deal if you don't [i]need[/i] to ask these questions to progress.

[QUOTE=Lordgeorge16;42442056]You as the player knows this shit, but the Dragonborn character himself/herself doesn't. Are these questions forced down your throat, or can you skip them and continue on with exploration and questing? It's really doesn't seem like a big deal if you don't [I]need[/I] to ask these questions to progress.[/QUOTE] No, My character fucking did know what those were, he's a goddamn Dunmer, I'd think he'd know HIS OWN RELIGION. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] Every fucking dialog in dragonborn was like that the whole way though, There's NO WAY TO AVOID IT if you do the quests, halfway though I started skipping every dialog it was pissing me off so much.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442027]Oh my god this, fucking this. The first dialog I got on Solsthiem was "WHAT'S THE TRIBUNAL" followed by "WHO ARE HOUSE HLAALU" I know this shit already Beth.[/QUOTE] i'd rather have race-specific dialogue, i.e dunmer ask how things are with the houses currently, while bretons or nords might be a tad confused.

[QUOTE='[Green];42442094']i'd rather have race-specific dialogue, i.e dunmer ask how things are with the houses currently, while bretons or nords might be a tad confused.[/QUOTE] Yes at least this please Beth, I can understand an Argonion not knowing who house hlaalu are but not a Dunmer. But a really good RPG would give you this neat thing called a dialog tree where it would have options like "who are the tribunal" and "I already know this" allowing you the player to both avoid things you already know AND roleplay a character who does.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442069]No, My character fucking did know what those were, he's a goddamn Dunmer, I'd think he'd know HIS OWN RELIGION. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] Every fucking dialog in dragonborn was like that the whole way though, There's NO WAY TO AVOID IT if you do the quests, halfway though I started skipping every dialog it was pissing me off so much.[/QUOTE] The Tribunal religion came to a very abrupt stop some two hundred years before Skyrim, and dunmer don't tend to live longer than ~150. So no, he wouldn't [I]necessarily [/I]know about the tribunal.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42442138]The Tribunal religion came to a very abrupt stop some two hundred years before Skyrim, and dunmer don't tend to live longer than ~150. So no, he wouldn't [I]necessarily [/I]know about the tribunal.[/QUOTE] I don't give a shit what Skyrim says, In Morrowind Dunmer lived at least 500 years and with magic they lived insane lifespans, The short elf lifespan retcon is something I can't get behind. The dialog in Dragonborn at times can come close to the insulting level the dialog in Ultima 9 is, assuming nobody playing it knows the old games at all. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] Skyrim is the most mainstream of the elder scrolls to date with a huge mass appeal, and they focused 90% of all dialog onto players who've never even played oblivion without even a "I know this as a player" choice. because alienating your core fanbase works out so well for every game series. it's so insulting to me, who's been a hardcare fan since Morrowind an who went back and played arena and daggerfall, it doesn't matter to me if my character should or shouldn't know something, at least give me the option so I can play somebody who didn't just appear out of thin air one day with no memory of the world.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442117]Yes at least this please Beth, I can understand an Argonion not knowing who house hlaalu are but not a Dunmer. But a really good RPG would give you this neat thing called a dialog tree where it would have options like "who are the tribunal" and "I already know this" allowing you the player to both avoid things you already know AND roleplay a character who does.[/QUOTE] Beth? Good RPG? Not for a while, I'm afraid. Passable at best. Need to mod them to achieve anything decent.

[QUOTE=cdr248;42430444][IMG]http://images.wikia.com/whitewolf/images/e/e2/Nines_Rodriguez.JPG[/IMG] ?[/QUOTE] Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines! And I have Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim on PC and Xbox and also Xbox 360.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442117]Yes at least this please Beth, I can understand an Argonion not knowing who house hlaalu are but not a Dunmer. But a really good RPG would give you this neat thing called a dialog tree where it would have options like "who are the tribunal" and "I already know this" allowing you the player to both avoid things you already know AND roleplay a character who does.[/QUOTE] Apparently it's really goddamn hard to do the Mass Effect thing and have normal dialogue assume you know bits about the backstory and have an option off to the side that amounts to "I don't know what that is".

[QUOTE=Craigewan;42442535]Beth? Good RPG? Not for a while, I'm afraid. Passable at best. Need to mod them to achieve anything decent.[/QUOTE] I didn't say they were, Morrowind suffers from exactly the same issues with dialog, TES always has, but that's why you're meant to try and FIX THE PROBLEM. Baldur's Gate 1 Has very little party dialog without a mod that overhauls it completely, but BG2 has INSANE DIALOG TREES AS DEFAULT. They improved on a weak point, as Beth should be.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;42440944]Exactly. The reason i tend to have such a chip on my shoulder when people talk about Morrowind being built purely on nostalgia is basically that. The caliber of creativity and thought that went into crafting Morrowind's world still generates the interest, reputation and content that the sequels thrive on, while people paradoxically have a meltdown over missing when they swing a weapon in Morrowind. And then come back to Skyrim only to complain about its mechanical failures. Worst of all is that all of the games feel like pieces from a different puzzle. Bethesda seem let something different slip through their fingers every release, and the current development team just feels like it's completely failed to retroactively understand why Morrowind generated the franchise's success -- and makes you wonder if they've even played it.[/QUOTE] Morrowind's combat is undeniably terrible though. I mean, so was Oblivion's and Skyrim's, but at least those had a second mouse button to press. I want to see a TES game with hit traces perpendicular to the blade as you swing ala Chivalry (wow I stepped out of the way of the sword and it actually did something) and animators that don't uncontrollably shove cocks down their throat while mashing random buttons in 3D software until they get something that resembles a sword swing. I also want to see it include the skill system in combat in a way that's actually tangible and not lazy instead of my blade going out of phase like that one Star Trek TNG episode or just slight damage/speed increases as I level up. I had an idea for KorJax's mod where comboing would become easier based on character skill, at the lowest level of 1h/2h you'd have to wait longer after a swing to initiate another and couldn't queue up combo attacks. If you tried to attack too early you'd "fumble" an attack, it would be weaker and take longer to "recover" for a new attack after the swing. As you gained levels you'd be able to start another swing sooner and have a larger window in which you could queue up an attack without fumbling. I like this idea because it prevents mindless LMB, but moreso because it actually implements RPG mechanics in a way that's noticeable to the player beyond stat changes.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;42442665]Apparently it's really goddamn hard to do the Mass Effect thing and have normal dialogue assume you know bits about the backstory and have an option off to the side that amounts to "I don't know what that is".[/QUOTE] Honestly mass effect's dialog isn't even enough for me after playing Planescape Torment, THAT game has good dialog, but it's also set up in a way that it's stated the character doesn't know shit, the player character of TES has no set backstory, he could know things or not depending on how you assume his backstory is.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442851]I didn't say they were, Morrowind suffers from exactly the same issues with dialog, TES always has, but that's why you're meant to try and FIX THE PROBLEM. Baldur's Gate 1 Has very little party dialog without a mod that overhauls it completely, but BG2 has INSANE DIALOG TREES AS DEFAULT. They improved on a weak point, as Beth should be.[/QUOTE] As somebody who has only played a decent chunk of Baldur's Gate EE, I can't wait for them to finish the EE of the 2nd game now.

[QUOTE=Altimor;42442857]Morrowind's combat is undeniably terrible though. I mean, so was Oblivion's and Skyrim's, but at least those had a second mouse button to press. [/QUOTE] You're looking at morrowind as an action game when it's an oldschool rpg, of course compared to an action game it's combat falls flat even to games from the same release year like Rune, but it's a dice based RPG combat system like baldur's gate. In Oblivon you have one attack button for melee and a block key, you mindlessly spam LMB with a few holds for power attacks, I never use power attacks that aren't standing or forward running because who fucking sidesteps in OB. Morrowind had 3 types of attacks based on movement and sure you'd probably only use the best one but it was AN ATTEMPT at depth that fell flat, with hammers being shit at lunges ect. Skyrim's combat is just as bad as oblivion's blocking is not combat in TES, it's hold rmb to not die, though shield bashing does make it slightly more interesting and duel wielding is handled so poorly it might as well not be there. OB and Skyrim have worse combat system because they're trying to be action games and failing, where Morrowind is trying to be an RPG and succeeding.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442954]You're looking at morrowind as an action game when it's an oldschool rpg, of course compared to an action game it's combat falls flat even to games from the same release year like Rune, but it's a dice based RPG combat system like baldur's gate. In Oblivon you have one attack button for melee and a block key, you mindlessly spam LMB with a few holds for power attacks, I never use power attacks that aren't standing or forward running because who fucking sidesteps in OB. Morrowind had 3 types of attacks based on movement and sure you'd probably only use the best one but it was AN ATTEMPT at depth that fell flat, with hammers being shit at lunges ect. Skyrim's combat is just as bad as oblivion's blocking is not combat in TES, it's hold rmb to not die, though shield bashing does make it slightly more interesting and duel wielding is handled so poorly it might as well not be there. OB and Skyrim have worse combat system because they're trying to be action games and failing, where Morrowind is trying to be an RPG and succeeding.[/QUOTE] Diceroll skill checks don't work in a 3d first person game, it looks and feels stupid to have my sword phase through the guy because "my character missed" when I'm completely controlling my character. At least in 2D TES I can sorta stretch my imagination because my sword doesn't actually go through the guy but in Morrowind it looks absurd My biggest peeve with it is that literally nothing changes for the player when your skills raise, your weapon just loses its ghostliness. To have an immersive first person RPG experience it needs to look & feel like it's actually easier to swing the sword when your character is better at it.

[QUOTE=Altimor;42443221]Diceroll skill checks don't work in a 3d first person game, it looks and feels stupid to have my sword phase through the guy because "my character missed" when I'm completely controlling my character. At least in 2D TES I can sorta stretch my imagination because my sword doesn't actually go through the guy but in Morrowind it looks absurd My biggest peeve with it is that literally nothing changes for the player when your skills raise, your weapon just loses its ghostliness. To have an immersive first person RPG experience it needs to look & feel like it's actually easier to swing the sword when your character is better at it.[/QUOTE] You do realize that Morrowind came out OVER A DECADE AGO right, yeah that kind of shit won't fly today but back than it was pretty damn impressive, Morrowind's combat is utter shit I agree, but it's at least trying to do something more than the barebones combat of the newer games. Saying it's absurd that it misses when looking like it hits is forgetting to take into account the age of the game, in 2002 I dare you to find a game that wouldn't have jarring clipping in some form or another. In Rune, a third person combat game, half my swings didn't even look like they hit yet they connected, I find that more jarring. If this was a perfect world Morrowind would have animations the enemy would do when you miss to show them dodge or deflect your shots, be we don't live in a perfect world.

[QUOTE=Rahkshi lord;42442164]I don't give a shit what Skyrim says, [B]In Morrowind Dunmer lived at least 500 years and with magic they lived insane lifespans[/B], The short elf lifespan retcon is something I can't get behind. The dialog in Dragonborn at times can come close to the insulting level the dialog in Ultima 9 is, assuming nobody playing it knows the old games at all. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] Skyrim is the most mainstream of the elder scrolls to date with a huge mass appeal, and they focused 90% of all dialog onto players who've never even played oblivion without even a "I know this as a player" choice. because alienating your core fanbase works out so well for every game series. it's so insulting to me, who's been a hardcare fan since Morrowind an who went back and played arena and daggerfall, it doesn't matter to me if my character should or shouldn't know something, at least give me the option so I can play somebody who didn't just appear out of thin air one day with no memory of the world.[/QUOTE] Do you have anything to suggest that it was actually retconned? I spent a long time googling this some time ago and didn't find anything to say over about 150. You know why they focused 90% of the dialogue onto people that never played Oblivion? Because 90% of the people that played Skyrim never played Oblivion. You're in the minority here. In every community there's always one group of people that are without argument the loudest, but often the smallest. They always rant and rave about how shit shouldn't change, or at least how it should change according to their tastes while disregarding the fact that [I]most players disagree with them[/I]. In ARMA its the morons that insist on everything being cold-war tech; in MMOs its the group that started playing when there was five people to a server; in TF2 its the people who shit themselves at the mention of hats. You're not being listened to because you're outnumbered, it isn't because casuals can't cope with seeing more than fifteen words at once; its because all developers listen to the largest group of their fans. Your opinion is not worth more because you played Morrowind!

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42443870]Do you have anything to suggest that it was actually retconned? I spent a long time googling this some time ago and didn't find anything to say over about 150. You know why they focused 90% of the dialogue onto people that never played Oblivion? Because 90% of the people that played Skyrim never played Oblivion. You're in the minority here. In every community there's always one group of people that are without argument the loudest, but often the smallest. They always rant and rave about how shit shouldn't change, or at least how it should change according to their tastes while disregarding the fact that [I]most players disagree with them[/I]. In ARMA its the morons that insist on everything being cold-war tech; in MMOs its the group that started playing when there was five people to a server; in TF2 its the people who shit themselves at the mention of hats. You're not being listened to because you're outnumbered, it isn't because casuals can't cope with seeing more than fifteen words at once; its because all developers listen to the largest group of their fans. Your opinion is not worth more because you played Morrowind![/QUOTE] Wow I didn't even fucking say casual gamer good job misreading, I said it's made for people hardcore or casual who haven't played the other games and DON'T KNOW A FUCKING THING ABOUT IT. I said it's insulting to have dialog that holds your hand like this is babby's first RPG, which IS INSULTING even if you are new. Skyrim is a SEQUEL, THE FIFTH GAME, you don't see long running movies have dialog entirely made to cater to people who just watched that movie, the third star wars assumes you've seen the other 2, it's not unreasonable to expect a game to do the same. TRANSFORMERS is a super successful movie series and it's writing is FUCKING SHIT, but you know what else has mass appeal? BREAKING BAD, Breaking Bad has mass appeal BECAUSE it's so well written. I don't care that I'm in the minority of older players, I care I'm in the minority of people who WANT GOOD DIALOG. [editline]7th October 2013[/editline] Welcome to the Skyrim sucks part of the thread.

You guys do know you both can have different opinions and the Earth wont explode right? Some people dislike Skyrim. That is ok. Some people like Skyrim. That is also ok. Arguing page lengths about why you think your opinion is right. That really isn't, and is just annoying as its been beaten around the bush endless times.

[QUOTE=1chains1;42444390]You guys do know you both can have different opinions and the Earth wont explode right? Some people dislike Skyrim. That is ok. Some people like Skyrim. That is also ok. Arguing page lengths about why you think your opinion is right. That really isn't, and is just annoying as its been beaten around the bush endless times.[/QUOTE] This is Skyrim, stop being reasonable or rational or both

[QUOTE=1chains1;42444390]You guys do know you both can have different opinions and the Earth wont explode right? Some people dislike Skyrim. That is ok. Some people like Skyrim. That is also ok. Arguing page lengths about why you think your opinion is right. That really isn't, and is just annoying as its been beaten around the bush endless times.[/QUOTE] The TES megathread cycle, what are some good mods make fun of anime mods x TES game is shit repeat forever.