Yeah, working on weapon balance would be nice. It's pretty much pulse rifle or get the fuck out right now, with rare exceptions. Shotguns are also stupid but that is more the fact that they give everyone the single best shotgun roll possible via quest. The biggest problem is that the amount of viable legendary pulse rifles is huge while every other weapon has [I]maybe[/I] a viable exotic. Viable number of legendary auto rifles though? Zero, and auto rifles are the worst class of weapon in the game right now anyway. Viable number of legendary hand cannons? Zero. Viable number of legendary scout rifles? Ok, actually a few but you need to hope for good armsday rolls. Viable number of exotics between those three weapons classes is maybe four. I think they need to nerf pulse rifle range and buff other weapons classes somehow and [I]selectively[/I] some shit exotics. The First Curse? Complete and total shit for the effort needed to get it.
PvP works by equalizing everyone's damage and health, unless you're playing iron banner or trials. Different guns will of course do different damage amounts, within certain archetypes. High ROF/low DMG and the opposite, etc.
I am much happier with the pulse rifle meta than I am with the Thorn/TLW meta. Nowadays you face Nirwens Mercy, Red Death, Hawksawk, Apple of Discord, Bad Juju, Smite of Merain
Before you would only go against 2 exotic hand cannons
People are always going to use the fastest time-to-kill weapons, so I'd much rather have a diverse pool of those weapons than a tiny pool.
[QUOTE=Bathtub;49037202]I am much happier with the pulse rifle meta than I am with the Thorn/TLW meta. Nowadays you face Nirwens Mercy, Red Death, Hawksawk, Apple of Discord, Bad Juju, Smite of Merain
Before you would only go against 2 exotic hand cannons
People are always going to use the fastest time-to-kill weapons, so I'd much rather have a diverse pool of those weapons than a tiny pool.[/QUOTE]
I feel like it's artificial diversity though because most of those pulse rifles have the same impact and rate of fire
The crucible is no longer dominated by the rotten banana
[QUOTE=Del91;49037201]PvP works by equalizing everyone's damage and health, unless you're playing iron banner or trials. Different guns will of course do different damage amounts, within certain archetypes. High ROF/low DMG and the opposite, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but it doesn't help balance what a gun is naturally good at and the perks you can get on the gun. If you're running a Nirwen's Mercy you're pretty much as max stability and can shoot at the same range as a sniper rifle. If you're good with a Hacksaw you can do the same thing except Hacksaw also completely fucks up your aim while looking down scope if you take hits. Pulse rifles are really good at any range except shotgun range, and they're neutral there.
Despite not playing back in Y1 I know what Bathtub is talking about and how things are more diverse because everyone is using different pulse rifles, but everyone is just using pulse rifles right now. If they increased the viability of other legendary primary weapons like pulse rifles have right now then I think the game would be a lot more fun.
[editline]2nd November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=d00msdaydan;49037210]I feel like it's artificial diversity though because most of those pulse rifles have the same impact and rate of fire[/QUOTE]
They have different archtypes among pulse rifles so they're not all the same.
[QUOTE=Banned?;49037325]Yeah, but it doesn't help balance what a gun is naturally good at and the perks you can get on the gun. If you're running a Nirwen's Mercy you're pretty much as max stability and can shoot at the same range as a sniper rifle. If you're good with a Hacksaw you can do the same thing except Hacksaw also completely fucks up your aim while looking down scope if you take hits. Pulse rifles are really good at any range except shotgun range, and they're neutral there.
Despite not playing back in Y1 I know what Bathtub is talking about and how things are more diverse because everyone is using different pulse rifles, but everyone is just using pulse rifles right now. If they increased the viability of other legendary primary weapons like pulse rifles have right now then I think the game would be a lot more fun.
[editline]2nd November 2015[/editline]
They have different archtypes among pulse rifles so they're not all the same.[/QUOTE]
Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about since I haven't played it yet, but it sounds like pulse rifles dominate for the same reason everybody picked battle rifles/dmrs in Halo over the assault rifle I guess?
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49037532]Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about since I haven't played it yet, but it sounds like pulse rifles dominate for the same reason everybody picked battle rifles/dmrs in Halo over the assault rifle I guess?[/QUOTE]
They all have a pretty quick time to kill (2/3 headshot bursts depending on which one) and can be done from long range.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49037532]Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about since I haven't played it yet, but it sounds like pulse rifles dominate for the same reason everybody picked battle rifles/dmrs in Halo over the assault rifle I guess?[/QUOTE]Pulse rifles only dominate because every time a rebalancing occurs within the game, the current top tier of weapons gets pushed down and a new one rises up.
in Vanilla it was Auto Rifles and Fusion rifles.
Then Bungie "balanced" the weapon sandbox and autorifles quickly became the worst primary choice available.
Then Exotic Hand cannons came to be the top tier primary weapons, followed closely by a single second shotgun type (high impact and range)
Bungie decided to rebalanced the weapon sandbox again some months later, essentially making hand cannons one of the worst choices out there.
Enter The Taken King. Pulse rifles are now the primary weapon choice of players in PvP, followed closely by shotguns and snipers.
If you're going to get into PvP for Destiny, get used to this type of cycle. Stuff will rise up and stay top tier for X months, Bungie will come along and say enough is enough and pretty much kill the weapon class in PvP, another weapon class will rise up and it'll repeat.
Well, that is horrible balancing then and I can't believe Bungie made Halo. It's not hard to realize the gaps in weapons and a little bit of tweaking goes a longer way than "hmm, well, looks like this single weapon class is really fucking good NERF IT INTO THE GROUND".
I have no issues with the balancing in PVP right now bar the new Titan super (and supers in general)
Nirwen's is an absolute BEAST right now so people who worked hard to get it are gonna use it, but I'm seeing a lot of non pulse rifles in Crucible these days.
Aside from Hammer of Sol and occasionally Stormtrance I am totally fine with the Crucible right now.
Nothing will be better than the week before TTK, though. Everyone was using a different primary and it was amazing.
[QUOTE=Banned?;49038154]Well, that is horrible balancing then and I can't believe Bungie made Halo. It's not hard to realize the gaps in weapons and a little bit of tweaking goes a longer way than "hmm, well, looks like this single weapon class is really fucking good NERF IT INTO THE GROUND".[/QUOTE]I agree, they're not doing an amazing job but it's harder to balance hundreds of weapons for PvP than it is to balance the small selection they had to worry about for Halo. and if I recall correctly, it costs money to put out game updates so I'm not surprised that they leave the weapon meta alone for a few months before changing it.
Can only hope that Destiny 2 is handled better
I dislike supers in pvp in general
dying because someone's bar was full is the least satisfying thing
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;49039394]I dislike supers in pvp in general
dying because someone's bar was full is the least satisfying thing[/QUOTE]
But sniping their stupid fucking skull when they think they can kill your entire enemy team is the most satisfying thing
Supers would be fine if they were limited to one per game, it would teach players to always wait for that opportune moment before randomly hitting R1+L1 for the Fist of panic or something
They can be fun and they spice things up but having a chain of deaths due to supers can be so frustrating
What if the only way to charge your super in crucible, is to pick up a some kind of orb/aura that spawns in like heavy ammo? They would rotate between the two throughout the match.
[QUOTE=Sharp_Shooter;49040764]What if the only way to charge your super in crucible, is to pick up a some kind of orb/aura that spawns in like heavy ammo? They would rotate between the two throughout the match.[/QUOTE]
How about we don't change it at all
Welp, me and my team didn't get to the lighthouse. :/ We came close three more times and got crushed.
[editline]3rd November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sharp_Shooter;49040764]What if the only way to charge your super in crucible, is to pick up a some kind of orb/aura that spawns in like heavy ammo? They would rotate between the two throughout the match.[/QUOTE]
I've heard people suggest that orb drops and super regen shouldn't be active at all in PvP and you just get it up via kills which sounds fine to me.
[QUOTE=Banned?;49041632]Welp, me and my team didn't get to the lighthouse. :/ We came close three more times and got crushed.
[editline]3rd November 2015[/editline]
I've heard people suggest that orb drops and super regen shouldn't be active at all in PvP and you just get it up via kills which sounds fine to me.[/QUOTE]
Thing is, orbs promote teamwork, because when the guy with the most kills uses his super, the orbs bring the rest of the teams super up as well. So when you're doing well in your team, but everyone else is doing bad, it can be a real turning point in a match.
But then again, I suppose that goes both ways.
I personally really like the use of supers in PvP because it adds a refreshing element to a traditional competitive shooter, the only problem is Bungie's inability to rebalance how something should work between PvE content and PvP content.
I really don't have a problem with any of the supers except Sunbreaker.
The only changes I would make to the Super system would be to remove/slow down passive super regeneration. Supers should be a reward for earning points and working as a team, not just as something that happens naturally.
I have a problem with supers. It has to do with PvP though. Some are blatantly better than others. Different classes, but take for example the fucking Sunbreaker vs. the Voidwalker. The void walker stops, goes into an animation to throw a [I]single fucking bomb[/I] that, conveniently, kills any non-supered player in one hit.
Now think about the Sunbreaker's hammer, that he can run around with, while armored, and throw several of on a fucking whim that [I]also[/I] one-hit-kills
I've never played Sunbreaker so can someone justify this shit please
I just wish I had my fucking Quiver back.
[sp]Unless it HAS been back and I've just been living under a rock[/sp]
I think Stormtrance is reasonably balanced by having a fairly limited range (imo) and not taking as much advantage of the arcing as in PvE.
You can reasonably gun down a stormtranced Warlock too.
I caved and bought the full package. Played my first couple rounds of Crucible and I had a pretty good time with it. I kinda wish it took longer to kill people and vice versa, but overall I see myself returning to it a lot.
I like having the Supers in there though. Normally I'm not a fan of those kinds of things, but since this mode feels pretty barebones (as far as competitive FPSs go) it could use as many dynamic gameplay elements as it can get.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;49043143]I caved and bought the full package. Played my first couple rounds of Crucible and I had a pretty good time with it. I kinda wish it took longer to kill people and vice versa, but overall I see myself returning to it a lot.
I like having the Supers in there though. Normally I'm not a fan of those kinds of things, but since this mode feels pretty barebones (as far as competitive FPSs go) it could use as many dynamic gameplay elements as it can get.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but if it was taking everything at face value, it'd be hilariously unbalanced. I went in with my light level just under 200 and won a game and did reasonably well for my first match against people clearly far and beyond my ability to kill if the mode wasn't relatively barebones.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;49043210]Yeah but if it was taking everything at face value, it'd be hilariously unbalanced. I went in with my light level just under 200 and won a game and did reasonably well for my first match against people clearly far and beyond my ability to kill if the mode wasn't relatively barebones.[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree. I'm only level 7 with my light score being 20 or something. I guess I meant more in terms of the gamemodes and maps. I generally did the best on my team, but we lost horribly both times so there's probably a correlation there.
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