The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

[QUOTE=Shock_Coil;40544604]I don't see why people hate clones so much. They were different enough for people to actually have preferences. Some liked Cap over Ganon, Roy over Marth, Doc over Mario. If the characters do that then what's the problem with having them?[/QUOTE] they aren't as interesting as a fully different character. brawl has more variety at least

When you see the various clones being played at a professional level (or play them at a professional level yourself), you start to realize just how different they really are.

[QUOTE=E-102 Gamma;40544788]When you see the various clones being played at a professional level (or play them at a professional level yourself), you start to realize just how different they really are.[/QUOTE] but a fully different character would be more different, wouldn't it? also not everybody is a professional player

[QUOTE=Y'all.;40544814]but a fully different character would be more different, wouldn't it?[/QUOTE] I would sure hope so. :v:

[QUOTE=E-102 Gamma;40544788]When you see the various clones being played at a professional level (or play them at a professional level yourself), you start to realize just how different they really are.[/QUOTE] why do you keep basing your arguments on biased personal accounts Roy and Marth, Link and Young Link, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, Fox and Falco, Mario and Doctor Mario and Pikachu and Pichu are almost identical to each other. The most different is Ganondorf, and he was a late addition so they had to rush his moveset.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;40544846]why do you keep basing your arguments on biased personal accounts Roy and Marth, Link and Young Link, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon, Fox and Falco, Mario and Doctor Mario and Pikachu and Pichu are almost identical to each other. The most different is Ganondorf, and he was a late addition so they had to rush his moveset.[/QUOTE] They really aren't exactly the same at all. Quick case-in-point. Falco runs slower than Fox (and walks faster than he runs :v:), his lasers cause characters to flinch, his reflector sends people upwards instead of sideways, his down-air is a quick and powerful spike, his up-smash and up-air aren't brokenly-overpowered like Fox's are, and his forward-smash is more brokenly-overpowered than Fox's, being a potent kill move at higher percents. Fox doesn't fall quite as fast as Falco does, and his up-B goes a whole lot farther than Falco's, which makes recovering a whole lot easier and makes him harder to gimp and thus harder to KO. His reflector is good for semi-spiking, gimping, and waveshining (that is, using the reflector, wavedashing, using the reflector again, etc. etc.). His blaster doesn't make characters flinch, but does fire faster, making it good for some damage racking and resetting move decay. Yes, they're similar, but their playstyles are fundamentally different to the point of non-interchangeability between the two. If you're good as the one, you're not necessarily good as the other. Here's Mango (one of the best players in the world) vs. Zhu (a really excellent player in his own right). Note how different their playstyles are. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuTur6V7eo4[/media]

what you're saying is that the characters aren't as identical as they appear to be. but they're still "clones", they have pretty much the same moveset and no casual player will be able to tell the difference unless they go out of their way to do find out. i think variety in gameplay should cater to both the competitive and casual players. i guess brawl is better as a casual game and melee is better as a competitive game.

Falco's lasers making people flinch, Roy's neutral-B move being way more powerful than Marth's, Y. Link's bomb explosions hitting stuff multiple times instead of one, Y. Link's grounded up-B hitting stuff a bunch of times, and Pichu being generally horrible are all readily-apparent things, though. Would it have been nicer if Melee's clones were more different? Yeah, I guess so. But I'm not complaining.

That's a really, really small list. They're still essentially the same. And of course two different people have different playstyles, they're different people.

[QUOTE=E-102 Gamma;40543988]I most certainly do know of a good number of people who will tell you that Brawl was a bit of a step backwards, O'Neil. Just ask anyone in the Melee section of Smashboards.[/QUOTE] A bit of a step backwards? Ha. That website is an elitist disaster area. They don't consider Brawl to simply be a lesser game than Melee. They think Brawl is a completely bad game just because it took away their techniques. Regardless of whether you played Melee at a competitive level or if you prefer Melee, calling Brawl an objectively bad game is ludicrous.

gamma i think you've had your turn of brawl bashing for one life-time

My first local Melee tourney ended with me getting knocked out in the first round against someone who jump spammed Falco's gun. At least he got knocked out by a little girl using hammer kirby. :v:

Advanced Melee battlers are uncomfortably reliant on abusing wavedashing.

[QUOTE=mixshifter;40545516]gamma i think you've had your turn of brawl bashing for one life-time[/QUOTE] Brawl is a great game on its own, I just personally prefer Melee. It's one of my favorite video games of all time, and I doubt it will ever be surpassed by another game in the series, but who knows.

[QUOTE=Funky Pickle;40548662]Brawl is a great game on its own, I just personally prefer Melee. It's one of my favorite video games of all time, and I doubt it will ever be surpassed by another game in the series, but who knows.[/QUOTE] There's nothing wrong with that, but to go out of one's way to speak negatively of a game a lot of people like at every possible turn is uncalled for.

i always wish i could have played ssb games with more people I HAVE NEVER FOUND A WORTHY OPPONENT

I remember absolutely decimating a few friends at it a while ago. My best friend then, to my surprise, kicked my ass so hard despite not really knowing what to do. She has never let me live it down.

My little cousin refuses to actually play the game with me when I see him, and when he does, he just pauses every 2 seconds (Literally.) and takes pictures. He only likes to play fighting games with me when it's Street Fighter or Naruto, the ones that I suck at.

[QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;40549617]My little cousin refuses to actually play the game with me when I see him, and when he does, he just pauses every 2 seconds (Literally.) and takes pictures.[/QUOTE] I have a friend who does exactly that. His sister and I can't stand it, so we just disable pausing and leave it at that.

I hope SSB4 makes a move back towards the fast paced fighting of Melee. Brawl was waaaay too sluggish.

[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;40550269]I hope SSB4 makes a move back towards the fast paced fighting of Melee. Brawl was waaaay too sluggish.[/QUOTE] Need a "eeh" rating. I'd like something in the middle

I want Snake back, and I'll be super disappointed if he isn't as he is SO much fun to play as. Also he needs a Big Boss Costume.

Agreed, I'll be disappointed if the guest characters don't make a return.

[QUOTE=mixshifter;40545516]gamma i think you've had your turn of brawl bashing for one life-time[/QUOTE] I wasn't actually bashing Brawl directly. That post was in reply to Nitro836's, in which he said that "[Brawl] polished the concept". I was pointing out that a lot of people would disagree with that statement. And seeing as how his post got 7 disagrees (as of this post), I would assume I was correct, even within the context of Facepunch alone. [QUOTE=Kirbunny431;40545461]Regardless of whether you played Melee at a competitive level or if you prefer Melee, calling Brawl an objectively bad game is ludicrous.[/QUOTE] Who said anything about objectivity? :v: [QUOTE=Flyingman356;40545261]That's a really, really small list. They're still essentially the same.[/QUOTE] That wasn't every single difference, though. Just some of the most obvious ones. I can go into more detail if you'd like. [QUOTE=Flyingman356;40545261]And of course two different people have different playstyles, they're different people.[/QUOTE] By all means, then. Have a look at this video of Mango playing as both Fox and Falco against WestBallz (who is arguably an even better player than Zhu): [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOQlKaGtrPU[/URL] Mango starts playing as Fox at about 6:30 into the video.

[QUOTE=E-102 Gamma;40551136]Who said anything about objectivity? :v:[/QUOTE] Fair enough. I'm just trying to point out that asking the Melee section of Smashboards about Brawl is like asking an NRA convention about gun control. Although, looking at your post again, you are indeed correct in that there are many people who (very strongly) prefer Melee over Brawl. So, I suppose I just used your post to springboard into a complaint about Smashboards. :v:

First rule of being good in Melee: Press buttons like you're on meth.

[QUOTE=Nitro836;40558604]First rule of being good in Melee: Press buttons like you're on meth.[/QUOTE] You should see Project M's "Turbo Mode". [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z92MxCndZa4[/media] [I][B]BUTTONS BUTTONS BUTTONS[/B][/I]

I loved Pichu as a kid and eventually mastered him in Melee. I played hours on end not realizing how terrible he is and became great with him. Now I can destroy any of my family members or friends with PICHU. ...Is that bad?

[QUOTE=Floezow;40564454]I loved Pichu as a kid and eventually mastered him in Melee. I played hours on end not realizing how terrible he is and became great with him. Now I can destroy any of my family members or friends with PICHU. ...Is that bad?[/QUOTE] The ability to humiliate friends and family by beating them with Pichu is not a skill to be ashamed of, my friend. That said, I would've preferred Raichu as a Pikachu clone.

[QUOTE=Floezow;40564454]I loved Pichu as a kid and eventually mastered him in Melee. I played hours on end not realizing how terrible he is and became great with him. Now I can destroy any of my family members or friends with PICHU. ...Is that bad?[/QUOTE] why not just use pikachu?