The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

Then just scale them down. Considering one day Bowser can look like this... [t]http://i.imgur.com/iGn42WI.jpg[/t] And the next shrink to this... [t]http://i.imgur.com/yTyMsd5.jpg[/t] I don't see why they can't downsize Ridley for a spin-off.

They could always, you know [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/oasis_S/RidleySm4shDesign2.png[/img] do this [t]http://i.imgur.com/6Qvty.png[/t] or this

That's the way Ridley moves in the ground. Seriously, the guy IS really Xenomorph-like. Long limbs, bent over when idle. Also, this: [url]http://www.smashboards.com/threads/the-ridley-for-ssb4-thread-the-most-wanted-nintendo-newcomer.324284/[/url]

Ridley sized down would make his neck as thin as a pencil

From this.. [img]http://www.mtv.com/games/video_games/images/promoimages/d/dime/games_to%20_feed_your_inner_weirdo/pikmin_2.jpg[/img] To this [img]http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/pikmin/screen-1.jpg[/img]

In Melee, wavedashing was great, sure. Everybody sort of expected it to stay in because they knew about it during the development life cycle of the game, so it was more or less an intentional bug. Removing wavedashing sucks, but its not the biggest problem with Brawl and why its not competitively viable. The problem with Brawl is that you cannot punish your opponent for his mistakes. Okay, sure, you technically can. You can get one or two hits in, or a smash attack, or hit your opponent so he's forced to do something that leaves him at a positional disadvantage while you hold the middle ground. But you can't deal big damage. Brawl reduced hitstun and increased hitstun decay so much that by the time you go in for the second hit of a combo, its already been broken and is no longer a true combo, they can airdodge or DI out of it. That, in my opinion, is by far the biggest problem with Brawl. The characters move slower, okay. You can't wavedash, okay. But the entire game is a true sluggish campfest when an unsafe move isn't punishable by a combo or high damage anything. Why would you even risk playing aggressive when it hardly benefits you? You can't carry your opponent across the stage in a combo, hell, you probably can't even deal 60% damage in one combo. Yes, I know about the chain grabs. Chain grabs only work at very low percentages and are very situational and rare to see. Throws the entire risk-reward of the game out of whack. Fighters really rely on that to make themselves work. Yes, I consider the SSB series real fighting games. Also, combos in Street Fighter were originally unintended and a glitch. Just saying. Didn't hurt anybody playing casually, but made the game a lot more competitively viable. Go for the combo, risk dropping it and getting punished? Or stick to your normal pokes and try to build damage and meter?

Making the game "viable for casuals" means being good at it is not as rewarding as it should be. And that combo-heavy characters are gimped (see Falcon). Plus, Meta Knight. Goddammit, what were they thinking when they made him the sole character able to combo?

To reiterate, I wouldn't mind a SuperDodge ability that functions much like the wavedash, is triggered by moving and blocking at exactly the same time, and which has limited repeated uses depending on character weight (the lighter the character, the more consecutive Superdodges) I see why it's liked tactically, the ability to perform a sort of "sideswipe" attack and immediately follow it up. Just make it a THING and not just a physics glitch, and it'll be much better.

[QUOTE=Everything;41904337]To reiterate, I wouldn't mind a SuperDodge ability that functions much like the wavedash, is triggered by moving and blocking at exactly the same time, and which has limited repeated uses depending on character weight. I see why it's liked tactically, the ability to perform a sort of "sideswipe" attack and immediately follow it up. Just make it a THING and not just a physics glitch, and it'll be much better.[/QUOTE] I think the high executional skill that was required to play Melee is what makes it good. YOU get better, not your character. If its "just a thing you can do" rather than a motion you can master, and there is risk-reward to a wavedash gone wrong. You'll just have an empty jump or a jump and an air dodge that can be punished if you mess up. Having it as a motion that's difficult to master raises the skill ceiling significantly, and doesn't hurt casual play because they don't even know about it, really.

But if you were the only person to know about it in, say, a high school group of friends, nobody would want to play with you ever again because you would always have that huge frame advantage. They don't know how to do it, so they automatically lose. Meanwhile even in skill-heavy fighters of old like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter 2, most people can fight most other people and still do SOME damage. Here, you might as well not even try. Even a so-so wavedasher has a massive advantage over even seasoned "glitch-less" players.

When was the last time you heard someone say SSBM wasn't fun? Or that SSBM wasn't fun to play casually? Hell, people play Street Fighter IV casually and that game is HIGHLY knowledge-based. SSBM is incredibly basic in the amount of knowledge you need to win. There was no need to remove these "broken" mechanics.

Wavedashing is the same thing as sliding across the floor when you get pounded at an angle, just with you able to control it because you were the one that gave yourself said momentum. No glitch, a glitch is a mistake in the programming, this is exactly what should happen when you landed with momentum.

To me wavedashing falls into the same pitfall as Snaking did in Mario Kart DS. You HAD to do it, or you would always lose. You HAD to pick Dry Bones/Dry Bomber or Toad/Eggkart and snake all over the place or you would lose. It's the same here. Pick a mid / light character, wavedash and off-shift light attacks to frame-link launchers or spikes at the end. It's always the same and it made 4/5 of the roster useless at anything above casual play. In my humble opinion Melee pro matches are less entertaining to watch than any of the three SSB games released played casually because of this, and certainly less entertaining than a good SF4 matchup. At least there you can stand a chance with a not-oft-seen character if you're REALLY good as them.

Ganondorf and Falcon are high-tier and heavyweights, Jigglypuff has a sucky wavedash, avoids the ground whenever possible, and is the third best character. I beg to disagree, there are plenty of other ways to approach.

[QUOTE=Everything;41904495]To me wavedashing falls into the same pitfall as Snaking did in Mario Kart DS. You HAD to do it, or you would always lose. You HAD to pick Dry Bones/Dry Bomber or Toad/Eggkart and snake all over the place or you would lose. It's the same here. Pick a mid / light character, wavedash and off-shift light attacks to frame-link launchers or spikes at the end. It's always the same and it made 4/5 of the roster useless at anything above casual play.[/QUOTE] Well then you're wrong. Go watch a competitive match that isn't on a highlights reel. There are many different viable playstyles. You shouldn't be surprised that a highlights reel or a match with millions of views on YouTube has flashy movement. Also, since when was linking light attacks into more damaging attacks a bad thing? That's called hit confirming and its a staple of fighting games. I have no idea why some people want to make Smash the retarded stepson of fighters when it has everything necessary to make it a serious and competitive game. You want to remove hit confirms now? Come on, man, you're just making the game worse when you remove all rhyme and reason.

[QUOTE=Everything;41904495]To me wavedashing falls into the same pitfall as Snaking did in Mario Kart DS. You HAD to do it, or you would always lose. You HAD to pick Dry Bones/Dry Bomber or Toad/Eggkart and snake all over the place or you would lose. It's the same here. Pick a mid / light character, wavedash and off-shift light attacks to frame-link launchers or spikes at the end. It's always the same and it made 4/5 of the roster useless at anything above casual play. In my humble opinion Melee pro matches are less entertaining to watch than any of the three SSB games released played casually because of this, and certainly less entertaining than a good SF4 matchup. At least there you can stand a chance with a not-oft-seen character if you're REALLY good as them.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;IXhNLSjsk98]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXhNLSjsk98[/video]

My point remains that - like snaking - [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance]dominant strategy[/url] took over quickly, and the game became less fun for more people who were robbed of choices because theirs wasn't as good objectively. Listen... I used to be really into the comp scene. I know the appeal of wavedashing, and I don't think it should be completely removed (hence my idea), but I think it should be fully integrated into the game's mechanics so that it's no longer a matter of not knowing something that the game can't teach through gameplay. [QUOTE=Downsider;41904568]Also, since when was linking light attacks into more damaging attacks a bad thing? That's called hit confirming and its a staple of fighting games. I have no idea why some people want to make Smash the retarded stepson of fighters when it has everything necessary to make it a serious and competitive game. You want to remove hit confirms now? Come on, man, you're just making the game worse when you remove all rhyme and reason.[/QUOTE] Did I say that? No. Hit confirm is a critical mechanic. I think removing a good portion of hitstun was dumb on Nintendo's part. [QUOTE=Maruhai;41904603][video=youtube;IXhNLSjsk98]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXhNLSjsk98[/video][/QUOTE] Okay... You're showing me things I've seen for years, particularly Fox and Jigglypuff. What's your point? Both were WDing pretty heavily, it's just less immediately apparent with Jigglypuff's animation set. [editline]t[/editline] Dumb is for rambling incoherence. Disagree is for not agreeing with someone.

tldr if you don't want to watch [sp]hungrybox (jigglypuff, entirely aerial character) wins against mew2king (fox, heavily wavedash oriented)[/sp]

The best Melee player I've ever fought against was a Peach main. He told me that he chose Peach because he didn't want to learn to wavedash when he was starting. Also, regarding wavedashes: [img]http://abload.de/img/test8eb1n.gif[/img] (Game is Air Dash Online.)

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;41903592]Yeah, a very important part, as the game that killed Metroid. And hey, because it is JAPANESE MASTER RACE it is more important than the made by foreign devils Prime series. The fact that one is a bad game that needs to catch the eye of a feminist organization and the other a masterpiece of a trilogy is irrelevant. .[/QUOTE] That is because it was made by Ninja Theory, which are known for totally fucking up franchises. Just look at last year's Devil May Cry reboot, which made Dante, pretty much a total badass, turn into a edgy emo teen. And let's not start on that one cutscene where one of the main characters, where we are supposed to be rooting for performs an abortion with a sniper rifle. ''Shakespearian'', my arse.

I thought we might see a new character this week because of Gamecom, but I thought it was going to be the Mii before today's pic of the day because of all the Pilotwings images. I am starting to second guess myself now.

[QUOTE=Regularjoe;41904788] Also, regarding wavedashes: [img]http://abload.de/img/test8eb1n.gif[/img] (Game is Air Dash Online.)[/QUOTE] And this is precisely what a SuperDodge would be/look like.

[QUOTE=Everything;41904611]My point remains that - like snaking - [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_dominance"]dominant strategy[/URL] took over quickly, and the game became less fun for more people who were robbed of choices because theirs wasn't as good objectively. Listen... I used to be really into the comp scene. I know the appeal of wavedashing, and I don't think it should be completely removed (hence my idea), but I think it should be fully integrated into the game's mechanics so that it's no longer a matter of not knowing something that the game can't teach through gameplay. Did I say that? No. Hit confirm is a critical mechanic. I think removing a good portion of hitstun was dumb on Nintendo's part. Okay... You're showing me things I've seen for years, particularly Fox and Jigglypuff. What's your point? Both were WDing pretty heavily, it's just less immediately apparent with Jigglypuff's animation set. [editline]t[/editline] Dumb is for rambling incoherence. Disagree is for not agreeing with someone.[/QUOTE] In this case I'm rating you dumb because you're dumb. Jigglypuff is not a character which wants to wavedash, unless it's to get out. And roll dodging is usually a better option for getting out, unless your opponent reads it and is moving to punish recovery frames, and they can do a quasi-option select with a dash attack and still be ready to punish the recovery frames on the roll. It's just another mixup, it's not a "dominating strategy". I'm sorry but you aren't analyzing this properly, you're clearly biased or blind. And you also said that a basic hitconfirm with a link into a heavy attack was overpowered, and then you said that it's a critical mechanic? Are you nuts?

And you thinking that is fine. It won't make It anymore likely wave dashing will be legitimized though.

What happened to this thread?

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;41905435]What happened to this thread?[/QUOTE] wavedashing Reminds me of Gamefaqs back in '04 [editline]20th August 2013[/editline] or any day really

RE: ridley Bowser changes size all the time in his own series. that's fine, the Mario universe is always different between games and there's no cohesive adherence to reality. Ridley doesn't, because the Metroid universe has a strict, single-universe continuity where the canonical Ridley is one size. doesn't matter how he looks when he's crouched down--especially because that would mean forcing him to crouch all the time in Smash, and that would look terrible Olimar is a tiny little guy, but it needs to be stressed that there are no other human creatures in the Pikmin games for him to compare to. your frame of reference for Olimar is that he may as well be a regular sized guy lost on a massive planet. the difference is, Ridley already coexists with Samus, who is already a veteran Smash character. what's important is that Olimar has never appeared next to any character from Smash in his own games, so there's no canonical size difference to reference. Ridley is known to be more than twice the size of Samus--his head alone is large enough to hold her in his mouth. so you implement a scaled down Ridley, you lose the size relation to Samus and he looks laughable finally i present the modding community's attempts [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvWCMZ4s60[/media] note: he's gigantic regardless. pencil-thin neck. for the hitboxes to make any sense, they'd need to be massive. his proportions are more intact than the next video, but it's still ridiculous looking. i want you to pause around :50-:52 and look at his head, neck, and body. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVkSaVgm1A[/media] note: holy fuck this looks silly. jesus christ his neck. now his body is smaller than Samus's. there goes any appeal of the fear factor we've come to know from the most persistent and dangerous Metroid villain. he's also super distracting; imagine this Ridley in a four player fight on any stage. I'd be all for a functioning, well-implemented, and aesthetically appealing Ridley in Smash Bros. but there's so many problems, it just doesn't look possible. It's not realistic, and any attempt would ruin the image of this character. there are more arguments to this than just 2BIG

The neck has always been that way. It is a bird neck. It is bent in a way it doesn't get in the way.

I forget. Does Ridley walk? 'Cause I don't think I've ever seen him walk.

Yeah, in Prime 3 walks a bit on two legs and also on four, in Other M, Nonstandard character design nonwithstanding, mostly fights on the ground, and in Prime most of its fight is spent in the ground as well.