The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

I wouldn't mind having another Sonic character in the game. Eggman specifically with all his mechs would be amazing.

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;44583933]It's exactly like crouch jumping: Games in the source engine rarely make any mention of it, it's not something you'd assume would occur, and it allows you to have an advantage over other players who had no way to know about it, for example in source engine games higher rocket jumps, access to certain jumps and ledges otherwise impossible, etc.[/QUOTE] To be fair, crouch-jumping was a Source holdover from GoldSrc, where it [i]was[/i] adequately explained at least in Half-Life, which most GoldSrc games were mods or expansions of. So there was reasonable assumption in most of those games that players should have already learned the move. Once Source got popular, though, I agree that there should be more instruction for the move, even if it's become second nature to many of us.

[QUOTE=Mr. Zombie;44583971]Here's something we need to consider. Sonic's moveset in Brawl was shit and extremely repetitive. Will it be less shit in Smash 4?[/QUOTE] Well most of his moves seem the same in the direct, but Sakari did say he fixed a lot of the old fighers, with[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=1355"] a little bit of emphasis on Sonic[/URL]. I'm guess even if his moveset is the same, it will be a bit better, though I hope they at least change his side or down b to something different. [editline]18th April 2014[/editline] I'm not sure if something else or something common, but looking at it again sonic does something weird when he lands [vid]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16364552/webm/Sonic.webm[/vid]

[QUOTE=Jays2Kings;44584053]Well most of his moves seem the same in the direct, but Sakari did say he fixed a lot of the old fighers, with[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=1355"] a little bit of emphasis on Sonic[/URL]. I'm guess even if his moveset is the same, it will be a bit better, though I hope they at least change his side or down b to something different. [editline]18th April 2014[/editline] I'm not sure if something else or something common, but looking at it again sonic does something weird when he lands [vid]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16364552/webm/Sonic.webm[/vid][/QUOTE] He seems to be landing in a crouch. The red flash is an indicator that he KOed a player.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;44584149]He seems to be landing in a crouch. The red flash is an indicator that he KOed a player.[/QUOTE] That would make sense since it was timed with the death, oh well.

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;44582976]The thing is, a lot of people honestly don't care about the competitive scene. If you're into that kind of thing, fine, but it's not gonna make or break a game for the vast majority of players and in Smash's case, it's debatable if Nintendo even cares. A lot of Nintendo games are perennial even in a casual sense, and they never stop selling or having active players. Just look at NSMB1 or any Mario Kart game. They're not exactly the kind of people you'd want to ask for a more competitive game; Melee was a bit of a happy accident and if people want a competitive-friendly game, they're better off with their own efforts like Project M than hoping against hope for Nintendo of all people to oblige.[/QUOTE] the thing is that there's also a middleground of people like me who are incredibly interested in the idea of competitive smash bros but really don't want to invest time into learning about all the hard competitive techniques and studying the games physics/mechanics. that's boring to me. i've always found traditional fighting games to be pointlessly complex and dull and smash bros remedies all of my problems with fighting games by having the same button commands for every move making characters way easier to learn, having way more space to move around and the whole concept of dying by getting knocked off the stage is brilliant to me. the meta of competitive melee involves so much complexity which bugs me because i've never thought that the goal of smash bros was to be a complex fighting game, and it fucking isn't, a lot of the complexity of melee comes from unintentional mechanics. if SSB4 ends up not having the ridiculously high skill ceiling of melee but still a fair and balanced game with a good amount of depth, it's probably gonna be my favourite multiplayer game ever

Random thought, I wonder if they'll ever add a Juggernaut-esque mode to Smash, maybe "Powerhouse" or something like that. It'd work like this: - One player (chosen at random) becomes a powerhouse, their damage multiplied by three and their impact force multiplied by two - This player also has 100HP, while all others operate on percentages as per usual - The player who finished them off becomes the new powerhouse - KOs are only worth points if they are obtained as the powerhouse, or by eliminating the current one. The player who finishes them off gets two points for doing so - After 30 seconds, the powerhouse player loses 1HP every second, making stalling very risky. If this damage causes them to selfdestruct, the last player to hurt them becomes the powerhouse - The player with the most points at the end of 5 minutes wins

Remember that one event where you have to fight against Fox and Falco, and they're both invisible?

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44585341]Remember that one event where you have to fight against Fox and Falco, and they're both invisible?[/QUOTE] Don't fucking remind me.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44585341]Remember that one event where you have to fight against Fox and Falco, and they're both invisible?[/QUOTE] Where they both teamed up on you, with 3 stock each. While you only had 3 stock as well? That one took me fucking forever.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44585341]Remember that one event where you have to fight against Fox and Falco, and they're both invisible?[/QUOTE] I think I audibly yelped while reading this

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44585341]Remember that one event where you have to fight against Fox and Falco, and they're both invisible?[/QUOTE] I actually nearly had my game taken away for a week because I was getting so pissed. I say nearly because I finally calmed down when Falco accidentally self destructed and ended the match. This was when I was 7 btw

I remember there was a spot you could stand about 2/3 the way down the lower left wing that would cause them to leap to their deaths for no reason.

I hated the event where you were Luigi against a bloodthirsty Dr. Mario and Nurse Peach. They were really fucking aggressive.

[QUOTE=Eva-1337;44586145]I hated the event where you were Luigi against a bloodthirsty Dr. Mario and Nurse Peach. They were really fucking aggressive.[/QUOTE] I beat that one in 5 seconds the first time i tried it through pure random chance. Later my brother came in and saw the record and was genuinely amazed.

Isn't it easier to list the events that aren't utter hell to beat in Melee and Brawl? You know, besides using Kirby or Jigglypuff to edgewhore Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Giga Bowser off to their deaths?

[QUOTE=RikohZX;44586289]Isn't it easier to list the events that aren't utter hell to beat in Melee and Brawl? You know, besides using Kirby or Jigglypuff to edgewhore Mewtwo, Ganondorf and Giga Bowser off to their deaths?[/QUOTE] Screw edge-whoring. I rested Giga Bowser to oblivion, and beat the others the old fashion way.

I always found Ness to be a really good character for event 51, just keep jumping off the side and using the PK Thunder recovery to hit giga bowser.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;44583712]How does for glory mode have anything to do with this? That's there to give an even, skill-based playing field so there's no elements of randomness in the game. It looks to me so fair like Sakurai has been putting effort into removing (non-optional) randomness from the game and ironing out easily exploited weaknesses (like tether recoveries) and this shows in many of the veteran characters like Olimar and Zero Suit Samus, that's what making a competitive game should be about, not leaving in glitches because they've gained popularity. The argument for wavedashing adding functionality and depth is just stupid to me, because you're advocating an unnecessarily difficult button input for an action that could be more easily achieveable if they just changed one little thing. If you want to be able to do attacks out of a run, why not campaign for Sakurai to change the dash attack mechanics so that you don't just do a dash attack if you're running and it actually depends on the direction of the stick when the button is pressed? If you want L-Cancelling because it makes gameplay faster, just advocate for all the landing lag animations to be sped up, and you have what you wanted with literally no depth or advantage lost, it's just not as pointlessly difficult. These techniques just add an arbitrary skill ceiling and makes the game harder and more intimidating for new players to get into.[/QUOTE] Explain why he removed L Cancelling then ? It was specifically written that sheilding close to the ground would make you move faster on both the official Smash 64 website and game guide. It was kept in Melee and removed in Brawl, do you think this is a coincidence ? Not at all, Sakurai removed L Cancelling (and thus Wavedashing) because it was shown to its full potential with Melee's Competitive Scene, and Sakurai has a personal hatred on Competitive Scenes.

[QUOTE=Maruhai;44586791]Explain why he removed L Cancelling then ? It was specifically written that sheilding close to the ground would make you move faster on both the official Smash 64 website and game guide. It was kept in Melee and removed in Brawl, do you think this is a coincidence ? Not at all, Sakurai removed L Cancelling (and thus Wavedashing) because it was shown to its full potential with Melee's Competitive Scene, and Sakurai has a personal hatred on Competitive Scenes.[/QUOTE] No, he removed L Cancelling because it's a stupid mechanic with no reason not to use it that added an extra unnecessary skill step to the game that people would never know about unless they looked it up. I actually liked wavedashing and I thought removing dash dancing via tripping was one of the dumbest thing Sakurai has ever done, but removing L-cancelling was a completely valid decision.

Funny, because of the 3 mechanics you mentioned, L Cancelling was the only one Nintendo acknowledged.

Unnecessary inputs used to perform moves that are always better than not performing them are bad game mechanics. Especially in a fighting game. If someone knows that input, and fights against someone who doesn't (a common possibility in online games) that someone has a completely arbitrary advantage because he knows that pressing X before Y will increase the speed of A. It's bad design. What's good design is just increasing the general speed and flow of the game making not having that input redundant. And that's what they've done.

[QUOTE=Eva-1337;44586145]I hated the event where you were Luigi against a bloodthirsty Dr. Mario and Nurse Peach. They were really fucking aggressive.[/QUOTE] That one was bad, but I always hated the Yoshi's Egg event match more.

Fuck, I forgot it was Saturday and there's no pic of the day

[sp]It's been 6 years since Brawl[/sp]

[QUOTE=Mr. Zombie;44587676][sp]It's been 6 years since Brawl[/sp][/QUOTE] First game I ever pre-ordered, I still remember going to the store after school to pick it up. God damn.

[QUOTE=Mr. Zombie;44587676][sp]It's been 6 years since Brawl[/sp][/QUOTE] makes me feel old man i remember pineing for it playing countless hours of melee might do the same here with brawl while i wait

[QUOTE=Painseeker;44587682]First game I ever pre-ordered, I still remember going to the store after school to pick it up. God damn.[/QUOTE] My first 7th Generation game. All I had was a PS2, and the way Brawl looked blew my mind. I got a Wii for it. Other than Brawl my Wii just kinda sat there until I softmodded it. Then it was my Wolfenstein3D/Quake/ShoutcastTV/Brawl+ box. Then my mom gave it to my aunt/uncle because their Wii died.

late to the whole advanced techniques talk but my buddies and i have been playing smash bros melee every time we get together for the better half of a decade now. recently i had the idea to start learning and incorporating competitive techniques like wavedashing and l-canceling and such to keep shit from getting stale. i make a point to make sure my buddies know how to do that kind of shit and use it well before i start playing with it. it just adds a new layer of depth to the game and makes it that much more interesting, and only if you want it to.

i think advanced techniques are ok if they're not the type which are automatically better than the ones below, l-cancelling and stuff are better than any alternatives in every situation so they don't change the gameplay apart from just adding another button input set to memorize good ones: wavedash, short-hop-fast-fall stuff bad: l-cancel