The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

The only thing that I dislike about the current Pac-man is the teeth. Those are seriously creepy for whatever reason.

I just honestly like the B Pacman more then the other ones. It both has that cartoon and video game Pacman in it, the others are just awkward to me.

D is the most experimental. I like it.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44599934]D is the most experimental. I like it.[/QUOTE] I dunno, D almost seems too interesting for Pac Man. Like, D should should have it's own thing.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;44599934]D is the most experimental. I like it.[/QUOTE] D doesn't really fit pacman to me personally, B is what I'd imagine as it's arcade-like as all hell and C is a runner up due to giving me a ed edd and eddy vibe of all things. Though it's all moot as A won simply because CG is easier and cheaper to produce then high quality stylized animation. More I look at it more I expect some headline about a french animation student doing a stylized pac-man short for his class project using D's art style. They already did Mickey Mouse and such :v:

Just because old videogame icons change over time doesn't mean their redesigns have to be bad. Now, his shoes are too cluttered and he has weird cut irises and teeth. Ech. At least you can compare Mario and Sonic's old designs to their new ones and say "Yeah, that's how they got there."

In all seriousness, we are talking about Nintendo guys. Just look at what they did with Megaman. If Pacman does make it into the game, I think they will know what to do with him.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;44600144]In all seriousness, we are talking about Nintendo guys. Just look at what they did with Megaman. If Pacman does make it into the game, I think they will know what to do with him.[/QUOTE] Really I was hoping Megaman would have looked like this [t]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100720141331/megaman/images/a/a6/MM10-MegaMan.png[/t] Rather than this [t]http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100523193401/megaman/images/b/bc/Normal_megamanfirst.jpg[/t] For some reason I just don't like the "midget" (idk what else to call it) look.

[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;44600387]Really I was hoping Megaman would have looked like this Rather than this For some reason I just don't like the "midget" (idk what else to call it) look.[/QUOTE] I don't know, I think they achieved a rather elegant balance in that regard: [IMG]http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/rockman/main.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;44600387]Really I was hoping Megaman would have looked like this [t]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100720141331/megaman/images/a/a6/MM10-MegaMan.png[/t] Rather than this [t]http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100523193401/megaman/images/b/bc/Normal_megamanfirst.jpg[/t] For some reason I just don't like the "midget" (idk what else to call it) look.[/QUOTE] I think it's a nice blend of both.

[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;44600387]Really I was hoping Megaman would have looked like this [t]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100720141331/megaman/images/a/a6/MM10-MegaMan.png[/t] Rather than this [t]http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100523193401/megaman/images/b/bc/Normal_megamanfirst.jpg[/t] For some reason I just don't like the "midget" (idk what else to call it) look.[/QUOTE] [img]http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611222218/ssb/images/b/bf/Megaman.png[/img] Looks about halfway in between in my opinion

See, what they did with Mega Man is exactly what they need to do with Pac Man. The "midget" look is too chubby, the "anime" look is too tall. The one we got is perfect; it looks like he, Mario, and Sonic all exist in the same game universe (which is what I think their intent was with his design). They need to make Pac Man fit in line with that style; he can't be an eye-melting blob of yellow, he can't be a cluttered "modern" redesign. Honestly, take B from that art style chart, keep his mouth closed when he's in a default pose, and give him really expressive eyes and movements, I could almost see it working. In hindsight, that's why I like B so much; he looks like he's got some personality. In all the others, he's just a smiling yellow face. "DOHOHO, THESE GHOSTS ARE AT IT AGAAAAAIN! LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER ADVENTURE IN PAC-LAND!" But the B one looks like he's got some character to him, like he's a little bit snarky or frustrated. I realize that my argument boils down to "HE LOOKS BETTER BECAUSE HE'S NOT SMILING", but damned if it's not something different for Pac Man.

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;44600598]See, what they did with Mega Man is exactly what they need to do with Pac Man. The "midget" look is too chubby, the "anime" look is too tall. The one we got is perfect; it looks like he, Mario, and Sonic all exist in the same game universe (which is what I think their intent was with his design). They need to make Pac Man fit in line with that style; he can't be an eye-melting blob of yellow, he can't be a cluttered "modern" redesign. Honestly, take B from that art style chart, keep his mouth closed when he's in a default pose, and give him really expressive eyes and movements, I could almost see it working. In hindsight, that's why I like B so much; he looks like he's got some personality. In all the others, he's just a smiling yellow face. "DOHOHO, THESE GHOSTS ARE AT IT AGAAAAAIN! LOOKS LIKE ANOTHER ADVENTURE IN PAC-LAND!" But the B one looks like he's got some character to him, like he's a little bit snarky or frustrated. I realize that my argument boils down to "HE LOOKS BETTER BECAUSE HE'S NOT SMILING", but damned if it's not something different for Pac Man.[/QUOTE] I'd say that B is so good because it is minimalistic. But as a result, all of his expressions and movements need to be exaggerated in order to make a meaningful impact. Just look at that run, all 4 of his limbs are extended to a cartoony degree but it just fits well with a character that's designed so simplistically. His arcade cabinet and Pac-Man World design are similar in this regard, where that cartoonish limitation gives the artists some leeway to take steps beyond physical limitations in order to make things stand out and accentuate them. Any expressions he makes need to be shown through the eyes and mouth, any movements he makes are pretty much restricted to his arms and legs; the exaggeration is what's so great about that sort of style, it just looks pleasing while still being blatantly unrealistic so it doesn't even come close to the uncanny valley.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;44600822]I'd say that B is so good because it is minimalistic. But as a result, all of his expressions and movements need to be exaggerated in order to make a meaningful impact. Just look at that run, all 4 of his limbs are extended to a cartoony degree but it just fits well with a character that's designed so simplistically. His arcade cabinet and Pac-Man World design are similar in this regard, where that cartoonish limitation gives the artists some leeway to take steps beyond physical limitations in order to make things stand out and accentuate them. Any expressions he makes need to be shown through the eyes and mouth, any movements he makes are pretty much restricted to his arms and legs; the exaggeration is what's so great about that sort of style, it just looks pleasing while still being blatantly unrealistic so it doesn't even come close to the uncanny valley.[/QUOTE] Precisely; make his movements make up for his simple design. Make him move like an old cartoon character.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;44586845] I actually liked wavedashing and I thought removing dash dancing via tripping was one of the dumbest thing Sakurai has ever done, but removing L-cancelling was a completely valid decision.[/QUOTE] just because you like wavedashing doesn't mean it was a dumb decision for sakurai to remove it. sakurai never wanted smash bros to be a complex fighting game with as high a skill ceiling as other fighting games. increasing the skill ceiling by keeping these techniques in isn't "good for everybody" like a lot of you seem to think. like i said in a previous post, there is a middleground of people like me who do not give a fuck about learning any of the crazy exploits that make melee such a complex fighting game, and if these exploits were kept in the game they would be a big part of the metagame and people who know how to make use of them will be at an advantage. this is bad for people like me. i'm sure sakurai expected people to play the game in a serious and balanced environment, i imagine that's why you have the ability to turn items off, and why stages like final destination exist, but i don't think anyone that worked on melee fathomed of it becoming as competitive as it is. i have nothing against competitive melee players and i can understand the appeal for stuff like wavedashing but you have to keep in mind that this was not how smash bros was intended to be played and expecting sakurai to compromise his vision just because you think mechanics like wavedashing are interesting is just selfish in my opinion.

Let's look at it this way, if people discovered an exploit in, say, Street Fighter, that the game is not balanced around and gives an unfair advantage to those exploiting the engine rather than playing with the careful balance and rules the game is meant to be played by, are the devs going to go "oh hey that's neat" and incorporate it into the game and balance it, or go "no, you're not supposed to do that, it breaks x and y and z"?

You know I'm trying to decide how a reveal for Pac-Man would even go, and I kind of hope they take a wreck-it-ralph approach if they do go through with him. Old arcade with the original Donkey Kong cabinet, Punch-Out!!! etc, characters popping out to fight when a Pac-Man machine starts rumbling and he tumbles out or something

[QUOTE=Y'all.;44601820]just because you like wavedashing doesn't mean it was a dumb decision for sakurai to remove it. sakurai never wanted smash bros to be a complex fighting game with as high a skill ceiling as other fighting games. increasing the skill ceiling by keeping these techniques in isn't "good for everybody" like a lot of you seem to think. like i said in a previous post, there is a middleground of people like me who do not give a fuck about learning any of the crazy exploits that make melee such a complex fighting game, and if these exploits were kept in the game they would be a big part of the metagame and people who know how to make use of them will be at an advantage. this is bad for people like me. i'm sure sakurai expected people to play the game in a serious and balanced environment, i imagine that's why you have the ability to turn items off, and why stages like final destination exist, but i don't think anyone that worked on melee fathomed of it becoming as competitive as it is. i have nothing against competitive melee players and i can understand the appeal for stuff like wavedashing but you have to keep in mind that this was not how smash bros was intended to be played and expecting sakurai to compromise his vision just because you think mechanics like wavedashing are interesting is just selfish in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he said that removing wavedashing was a dumb decision, just that tripping was. Now I don't care if wavedashing is or is not in SSB4 but I really don't understand the amount of hate that people have for it. Sure, the competitive scene in melee uses wave dashing a lot but how would that affect those who don't play it at the high level? Those who use it to it's actual advantage will probably be better than those who don't want to "invest time into learning about all the hard competitive techniques and studying the games physics/mechanics" in the first place. And if you have "that guy" playing super competitively when the rest are just trying to have fun or is just stomping everyone there, then it's not so much the mechanics it's that they're an ass. The way I see Melee is that it fits the group of people playing it. If you don't want to spend the time practicing certain techniques then you play with other people who don't do that either. The group of friends I play SSB with are all about mid-range or above, only one or two could stand a good chance against the competitive scene's higher-level players. So I'd say that we're in-between super competitive and casual-competitive. There is one guy who currently plays as Fox and L-cancels everything. He normally wins all of the 1v1 he's in because of how good he is; I still give him a run for his money even though I don't L-cancel. He's more skilled than me but I try my best against him and the fights are really intense. We got good at the game through playing a lot against each other. Sure, some of us practice techniques to get better but really it's about having good matches, fun, and playing with friends. A side-note, I think L-canceling as a mechanic is stupid and shouldn't be in the game. Though that isn't the reason why I don't use it, I just never bothered to learn.

[QUOTE=Reds;44601960]Let's look at it this way, if people discovered an exploit in, say, Street Fighter, that the game is not balanced around and gives an unfair advantage to those exploiting the engine rather than playing with the careful balance and rules the game is meant to be played by, are the devs going to go "oh hey that's neat" and incorporate it into the game and balance it, or go "no, you're not supposed to do that, it breaks x and y and z"?[/QUOTE] well there's been plenty of cases where exploits are rebalanced and added to the game/kept in [url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AscendedGlitch[/url] strafe-jumping, bunnyhopping, all kinds of things.

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1613867_230730547116605_9072051048578236711_n.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;44602706]well there's been plenty of cases where exploits are rebalanced and added to the game/kept in [URL]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AscendedGlitch[/URL] strafe-jumping, bunnyhopping, all kinds of things.[/QUOTE] My point was that it was up to the devs to decide whether they wanted to keep it or not, and if they decide it messes with the game they designed they're going to remove it.

[QUOTE=Shock_Coil;44602686]Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he said that removing wavedashing was a dumb decision, just that tripping was. Now I don't care if wavedashing is or is not in SSB4 but I really don't understand the amount of hate that people have for it. Sure, the competitive scene in melee uses wave dashing a lot but how would that affect those who don't play it at the high level? Those who use it to it's actual advantage will probably be better than those who don't want to "invest time into learning about all the hard competitive techniques and studying the games physics/mechanics" in the first place. And if you have "that guy" playing super competitively when the rest are just trying to have fun or is just stomping everyone there, then it's not so much the mechanics it's that they're an ass. The way I see Melee is that it fits the group of people playing it. [B]If you don't want to spend the time practicing certain techniques then you play with other people who don't do that either.[/B] The group of friends I play SSB with are all about mid-range or above, only one or two could stand a good chance against the competitive scene's higher-level players. So I'd say that we're in-between super competitive and casual-competitive. There is one guy who currently plays as Fox and L-cancels everything. He normally wins all of the 1v1 he's in because of how good he is; I still give him a run for his money even though I don't L-cancel. He's more skilled than me but I try my best against him and the fights are really intense. We got good at the game through playing a lot against each other. Sure, some of us practice techniques to get better but really it's about having good matches, fun, and playing with friends. A side-note, I think L-canceling as a mechanic is stupid and shouldn't be in the game. Though that isn't the reason why I don't use it, I just never bothered to learn.[/QUOTE] Well that's going to fucking suck if you want good matchups online isn't it

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;44602769][img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/1613867_230730547116605_9072051048578236711_n.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I would play the fuck out of Steve and Blue if they got in

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;44602967]Well that's going to fucking suck if you want good matchups online isn't it[/QUOTE] Well don't forget that they will also be matching people up based on their skill too according to Sakurai. So if the people who practice those techniques would actually use them well online then it would be unlikely that they would be matched up to those who don't if it makes a big difference. And if they are then they would probably be roughly around the same overall skill level.

[t]https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzR0_bJc24ikRHM[/t] [quote] Pic of the day. For the first time in the Smash series, Beam Swords will feature graduated colors. The attack item on the left is the Fire Bar. This is a peculiar weapon that becomes shorter after each swing. [/quote]

[QUOTE=Shock_Coil;44602686]Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he said that removing wavedashing was a dumb decision, just that tripping was. Now I don't care if wavedashing is or is not in SSB4 but I really don't understand the amount of hate that people have for it. Sure, the competitive scene in melee uses wave dashing a lot but how would that affect those who don't play it at the high level? Those who use it to it's actual advantage will probably be better than those who don't want to "invest time into learning about all the hard competitive techniques and studying the games physics/mechanics" in the first place. And if you have "that guy" playing super competitively when the rest are just trying to have fun or is just stomping everyone there, then it's not so much the mechanics it's that they're an ass. The way I see Melee is that it fits the group of people playing it. If you don't want to spend the time practicing certain techniques then you play with other people who don't do that either. The group of friends I play SSB with are all about mid-range or above, only one or two could stand a good chance against the competitive scene's higher-level players. So I'd say that we're in-between super competitive and casual-competitive. There is one guy who currently plays as Fox and L-cancels everything. He normally wins all of the 1v1 he's in because of how good he is; I still give him a run for his money even though I don't L-cancel. He's more skilled than me but I try my best against him and the fights are really intense. We got good at the game through playing a lot against each other. Sure, some of us practice techniques to get better but really it's about having good matches, fun, and playing with friends. A side-note, I think L-canceling as a mechanic is stupid and shouldn't be in the game. Though that isn't the reason why I don't use it, I just never bothered to learn.[/QUOTE] yeah maybe i misread his post. if i did i apologize. i still stand by my point, though. like i said, i don't have a problem with people playing melee competitively, my problem is with people who expected/are expecting wavedashing and other exploits to be kept in brawl/ssb4. of course you're going to have a good time if you're always playing with people at the same skill level as you, that pretty much goes without saying, but with any competitive game you're going to want to play as optimally as you can, right? i don't like the idea that playing optimally in melee involves investing a lot of time into learning about how to perform these odd techniques that aren't very intuitive. this is my personal preference and i know that some people enjoy this kind of thing but i'm not one of those people. i don't agree with the attitude that i should just exclusively play with people who don't understand these techniques, i'd probably be really frustrated if i played against a good competitive melee player because he'd have such a large advantage over me simply because i don't know how to execute and make use of certain techniques. if the skill ceiling is low and playing optimally isn't difficult, then top level play becomes pure combat strategy. playing against a high level player in a game with a low skill ceiling is better for me because i'm not concerned with my execution and i can see what i'm doing wrong more clearly. i'd still probably get destroyed but it wouldn't feel as unfair.

The firebar sword is probably my favorite Smash-original version of any recurring Nintendo item.

[QUOTE=Y'all.;44603108]yeah maybe i misread his post. if i did i apologize. i still stand by my point, though. like i said, i don't have a problem with people playing melee competitively, my problem is with people who expected/are expecting wavedashing and other exploits to be kept in brawl/ssb4. of course you're going to have a good time if you're always playing with people at the same skill level as you, that pretty much goes without saying, but with any competitive game you're going to want to play as optimally as you can, right? i don't like the idea that playing optimally in melee involves investing a lot of time into learning about how to perform these odd techniques that aren't very intuitive. this is my personal preference and i know that some people enjoy this kind of thing but i'm not one of those people. i don't agree with the attitude that i should just exclusively play with people who don't understand these techniques, i'd probably be really frustrated if i played against a good competitive melee player because he'd have such a large advantage over me simply because i don't know how to execute and make use of certain techniques. if the skill ceiling is low and playing optimally isn't difficult, then top level play becomes pure combat strategy. playing against a high level player in a game with a low skill ceiling is better for me because i'm not concerned with my execution and i can see what i'm doing wrong more clearly. i'd still probably get destroyed but it wouldn't feel as unfair.[/QUOTE] True, I don't know where people are coming from when they expect such things to still get into SSB4. The thing is, at least from my experience, people who are around the same skill level as you and who use those techniques don't have a huge advantage because it's still mostly the basics. One of my other friends who also plays as Fox doesn't use any of those techniques yet still rivals the other person's Fox that I mentioned. Both are tough fights for me but I don't notice that much of a difference. Of course I have no clue what it would be like for the more hardcore players. I'll admit that I'm quite the opposite to you, I love it when games have low skill floors and high skill ceilings. Melee is an oddball because it has two different floors, without using those techniques and with using them. The techniques just open up more possibilities for high skilled players. The high levels of SSB has a lot to do with strategy already though, you can see players doing moves and counter-moves in a match. I get where you're coming from though, a lot of the techniques are unintuitive at first glance. It could be just me but most of the advanced techniques make sense once you think about them. Say something like Falco's short-hop laser. Short-hopping is a simple mechanic that most players know, as is doing a fast fall, also you can use the laser mid-air. So if you put all three together you get a way to use the laser while being able to move around slightly. It's not spelt out to the player but all of the elements are there in the open to be put together. I feel like these sorts of combinations are just an inherent part of SSB's design, a few different mechanics mesh together to allow new techniques to come from it.

[QUOTE=Shock_Coil;44603023]Well don't forget that they will also be matching people up based on their skill too according to Sakurai. So if the people who practice those techniques would actually use them well online then it would be unlikely that they would be matched up to those who don't if it makes a big difference. And if they are then they would probably be roughly around the same overall skill level.[/QUOTE] After playing many moba's, I can assure you that people will be matched up with people outside of their league way after the initial release. No matchmaking in any game is flawless, and mismatches are extremely common.

I really hope they add a remix of City Trials to the Smash Run' stage. [video=youtube;KamjTqi4VjI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KamjTqi4VjI[/video] Those damn spanish guitars always get me the goosebumps and so pumped up.