The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;45163713][IMG]https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzSEWigYfd1BJ72[/IMG][/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/7vCONrO.png[/t] Mistranslated? Did he mean to say appealing?

In all honesty, I may never play "with anyone" online. Ever. Custom moves look to be way too much fun. With Friends or bust

[QUOTE=Mikemaximum;45163744][t]http://i.imgur.com/7vCONrO.png[/t] Mistranslated? Did he mean to say appealing?[/QUOTE] I think it's just an english fuck-up on his part. I was under the impression that Sakurai wrote the English descriptions himself, but I might be wrong.

Maybe i'm fucking up my own english here but "appalling" can mean "crazy", basically. So he's saying "there is so many moves, it's crazy"

no he is disgusted with the amount of moves he has made available and is ashamed of himself

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;45163713][IMG]https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/zlCfzSEWigYfd1BJ72[/IMG] We've made it so that customization options, including special attacks, will be disabled when you're playing online in With Anyone mode. [b]After all, we have to think about game balance, and it's crucial for anonymous players to be able to use reliable tactics against one another.[/b] When you're playing in single player, battling with friends online, or playing locally, you're free to play however you want--with or without customization.[/QUOTE] to the people who are saying "Smash 4 won't be competitive because it's not balanced"

[QUOTE=MugenOverlord;45164085]to the people who are saying "Smash 4 won't be competitive because it's not balanced"[/QUOTE] Melee is incredibly unbalanced lol, why does everyone conveniently ignore that fact while discussing it

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;45164202]Melee is incredibly unbalanced lol, why does everyone conveniently ignore that fact while discussing it[/QUOTE] Explain to me how Melee is unbalanced, especially after Sakurai himself said it is the sharpest title in the series.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;45164225]Explain to me how Melee is unbalanced, especially after Sakurai himself said it is the sharpest title in the series.[/QUOTE] Because some of the characters are much, much worse than others?

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;45164241]Because some of the characters are much, much worse than others?[/QUOTE] That is every single fighting game in a nutshell. You always have those characters people play as the most and the least, and that will be no different for Smash 4.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;45164251]That is every single fighting game in a nutshell.[/QUOTE] How the fuck else can you define imbalance lol [editline]20th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ClauAmericano;45164251]You always have those characters people play as the most and the least, and that will be no different for Smash 4.[/QUOTE] Ideally characters would have different strengths and weaknesses that favour different approaches to the game and play styles, it shouldn't just be Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Sheik and Marth and occasionally someone else if you're really really good.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;45164202]Melee is incredibly unbalanced lol, why does everyone conveniently ignore that fact while discussing it[/QUOTE] Melee is perfect what're you talking about [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8380892/melee%20is%20perfect.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;45164255]Ideally characters would have different strengths and weaknesses that favour different approaches to the game and play styles, it shouldn't just be Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon, Sheik and Marth and occasionally someone else if you're really really good.[/QUOTE] That´s the thing most people don´t see, a lot of the time it really depends on how you play the character. Sure that character might be really weak, but the reason why people play certain characters a lot is either because they know he/she is strong, or they just want to have fun with their favorite character. I for one always played Dr.Mario in Melee, and while I know he isn´t the strongest doesn´t nearly mean he can´t be played right. [editline]20th June 2014[/editline] Same goes to any of the "weaker" characters.

Don't forget the wavedashing bug further dividing the players. Pardon me, exploit would be the more correct term here. Thanks, Eriorguez.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;45164303]Don't forget the wavedashing bug further dividing the players.[/QUOTE] Wavedashing is that one thing that probably made Melee so popular in the competitive scene. Probably the reason why a lot of competitive players still complain about it not being in Smash Bros anymore to this day.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;45164303]Don't forget the wavedashing bug further dividing the players.[/QUOTE] Not a bug, the physics are working there just as they are supposed to. It is an exploit. Momentum towards the ground ends up with the character sliding, and with a lack of hitstun due to the origin of the momentum, the character slides while in the standing state. If you call it a bug, you don't understand it. Exploit, however, makes more sense, and it isn't as drastic as most people make it to be. Seriously, take a look at some of the F-Zero X time trial videos in Youtube to see real dealmaking exploits.

Game doesn't exactly have to be balanced to be competitive. It's a very good thing to have so you don't get Doctor Doom on every team however some of the most popular fighting games have been very broken. It's mostly if it's well designed, deep enough for competitive play and fun. It gets very debatable about how "competitive" a game is though.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;45164202]Melee is incredibly unbalanced lol, why does everyone conveniently ignore that fact while discussing it[/QUOTE] um. didn't say anything about melee what I meant by this is the people who are saying that this is going to be "just another Brawl" with the team making little to no effort to balance out the game/that we're going to wind up with more Metaknights/etc. obviously haven't been keeping up with the Pictures of the Day or any of the developer commentary, it's very clear that this time around they're putting serious thought into making the game fun for both competitive players as well as casual Also yes [i]ideally[/i] the game would balance every character so incredibly well that who you picked came down solely to what playstyle you favored but unfortunately that's extremely hard to do and despite that even if they were to be successful there would still be tier lists from which people picked certain characters more often than others

[QUOTE=MugenOverlord;45164413]um. didn't say anything about melee what I meant by this is the people who are saying that this is going to be "just another Brawl" with the team making little to no effort to balance out the game/that we're going to wind up with more Metaknights/etc. obviously haven't been keeping up with the Pictures of the Day or any of the developer commentary, it's very clear that this time around they're putting serious thought into making the game fun for both competitive players as well as casual Also yes [i]ideally[/i] the game would balance every character so incredibly well that who you picked came down solely to what playstyle you favored but unfortunately that's extremely hard to do and despite that even if they were to be successful there would still be tier lists from which people picked certain characters more often than others[/QUOTE] Because people try to single out the problem as lack of balance when it's clearly not because Melee was so unbalanced The problem with brawl was hitstun cancelling and tripping. Like, that's absolutely all. If SSB4 removes those things, it'll be perfect.

[QUOTE=Kegan;45164294]Melee is perfect what're you talking about [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8380892/melee%20is%20perfect.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/nng5KUI.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;45164424]Because people try to single out the problem as lack of balance when it's clearly not because Melee was so unbalanced The problem with brawl was hitstun cancelling and tripping. Like, that's absolutely all. If SSB4 removes those things, it'll be perfect.[/QUOTE] There's no tripping this time around IIRC, I don't remember seeing anyone trip during any of the gameplay we saw at E3 nor do I remember tripping in my brief 2 minutes with it. Also don't think I ever managed to cancel hitstun but it was hard to tell.

[QUOTE=MugenOverlord;45164460]There's no [B]random[/B] tripping this time around IIRC, I don't remember seeing anyone trip during any of the gameplay we saw at E3 nor do I remember tripping in my brief 2 minutes with it. Also don't think I ever managed to cancel hitstun but it was hard to tell.[/QUOTE] Tripping still exists tho they toned it down. Bananas makes you trip but compared to Brawl, only once until they become inactive. In Brawl, I don't think they had a limit outside the despawn timer.

nvm snip

Only done by the Banana item, either from item spawn or by Diddy's down B.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;45163890]I think it's just an english fuck-up on his part. I was under the impression that Sakurai wrote the English descriptions himself, but I might be wrong.[/QUOTE] I think it's just hyperbole.

[QUOTE=GastricTank;45164303]Don't forget the wavedashing bug further dividing the players.[/QUOTE] The only reason wavedashing was a hot topic for debate was because it looked visibly different from all the other advanced techs and was reasonably easy to pull off. Seriously. Outside of spacing, it's primary use, it's only good for edgehogging, platform tricks, mind games and styling. Proper use of wavedashing (and different WD lengths further up the skill ladder) is nothing compared to properly utilizing l canceling, shffling, teching/tech chasing and dash dancing to name a few When it comes to actual game balance WDing is barely even worth mentioning. It provides more movement options, which some characters benefit from more than others, but again it's such a minute detail that it really doesn't matter next to stupid shit like Marth's ridiculous grab range (I knew it was bad but holy shit I wasn't aware it was that large)

Teching's not hard at all though, I just kind of taught myself how to tech through playing the game and realising it happened. It's a form of recovery.

Meh, player skill can often triumph over character choice. One only needs to see DJ Nintendo and aMSa for that. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9NaIYFnVgY[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLdZm2uuLAA[/media]

I'd argue that's more "I don't know how to fight D- characters because I've only ever had to fight A+" The same thing happens in other fighting games all the time, and its success is almost exclusively hubris-based. People get too comfortable in top tier play, and they forget how to counter the rest.

[QUOTE=Everything;45166858]I'd argue that's more "I don't know how to fight D- characters because I've only ever had to fight A+" The same thing happens in other fighting games all the time, and its success is almost exclusively hubris-based. People get too comfortable in top tier play, and they forget how to counter the rest.[/QUOTE] That happens in Leauge, I can contest. For those that don't like/play league, there are a few champions (Urgot, Sion, poppy) that almost nobody play because they're quite old and seen as 'bad', so due to nobody knowing how to fight them, I usually get a free win.