The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

Eh, it kind of dictates your entire flow. Like how changing Pokemon with PT leaves you wide open. It sounds like it would help everyone fighting you more then the actual character using it. If other players know when you're most powerful they'll do everything to prevent it happening or kite you during it.

I can imagine if the character's physical speed were to improve as they keep the beat, it'd be a lot harder to avoid/kite them or wait for them to mess up. Also, the added damage taken during the sweet spot encourages foes to try and pressure you for it, which in turn puts them closer and makes them easier to hit with your rhythmic attacks. There's risk for both parties.

Anyone with sense will pick whatever character can best punish you while still avoiding you. Having a mechanic where you alter between vulnerable and normal, especially one that is visible to everyone, will cripple fighting anyone with common sense. Even if his speed increases, that doesn't mean he'll be able to make use of his own mechanic.

Fair enough, I just think there would need to be SOME sort of rhythm-based mechanic for the character to make thematic sense. How would you do it? Look at what we have already, the sneaky spirit. It pops up in a rhythm, and once hit that rhythm gets faster. It's only vulnerable when it pops up, so keeping time with it makes it easier to fight. It conveys the theme of its origin game perfectly.

I can keep a beat with no metronome.

[QUOTE=Shortyish;45412552]i don't like the way they handled lucina. depending on how they balance the tipper vs balanced moveset, i have a feeling that either lucina or marth will be played, and one will be just strictly worse. i would have preferred if she was a costume i think.[/QUOTE] Lucina seems more like Roy than Marth in her playstyle to me, at least what I read from the scan, at least. [editline]16th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=The Stills;45412271]A Metal Sonic alt skin for Sonic would be rad.[/QUOTE] A Classic Sonic skin would be even more rad.

The ideas I've had so far were Karate Joe getting multiple parts to his tilts, smashes and aerials. Some characters have these already like Meta Knight or Link but not to the extent KJ would (and not with aerials; no other character has multi-hit aerials, so I'm basing this off how Robin can forward smash in the air). Just like with the other examples, you can follow up straight away, wait a bit or not at all. But since nearly all your a attacks have multiple parts, you could play KJ like a super refined dancing blade. You can alternate the 'tempo' of your attacks by deliberately delaying follow ups, transitioning into different attacks, etc. To balance this out his individual hits would be weak, and you have get multiple hits to really rack up damage and to get access to your kill moves. Less 'rhythm', more 'tempo' and adapting to tempo changes. The other is just having Choir Kids reference group games (jab combo is lockstep with the finisher changing to the offbeat, up-ground attacks are Fan Club's clap as tilt, and "I suppose *clap" as smash etc) and keeping the Rhythm aspect to their specials. I just think increasing vulnerability and letting others see it is a bad idea; a rhythm mechanic would be a good idea if it can be pulled off.

So with your KJ example, (directional) A > A > delay > A would result in a different move than (directional) A > A > A ? That's really interesting actually. Mix-ups; The Character

[QUOTE=Fangz;45413869] A Classic Sonic skin would be even more rad.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/251ea29d37dd46a574a764112398176f/tumblr_inline_n8sp05VxnS1rjw2mu.jpg[/IMG] It could work, but anything is a step up from the skins Sonic had in Brawl.

[sarcasm]We should totally get a Sonic Boom alt costume[/sarcasm]

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;45414086][sarcasm]We should totally get a Sonic Boom alt costume[/sarcasm][/QUOTE] Too tall. [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Darkfawful;45414073][IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/251ea29d37dd46a574a764112398176f/tumblr_inline_n8sp05VxnS1rjw2mu.jpg[/IMG] It could work, but anything is a step up from the skins Sonic had in Brawl.[/QUOTE] With the costumes from E3, we already know his costumes will be better- he'll be different colors, for example. I'm glad that our costume choices will be vastly expanded this time, for Sonic alone.

[QUOTE=Everything;45413952]So with your KJ example, (directional) A > A > delay > A would result in a different move than (directional) A > A > A ? That's really interesting actually. Mix-ups; The Character[/QUOTE] It's more like it's the same combo (so side-tilt will always be the same 3 hits), but you can delay, transition from one to other moves, use them rapidly etc but yeah. He's entirely mix-ups based. This, along with his specials being his 'hit 3'/'bomb kick'/'punchpunchpunchPOW' moves that he actually uses would make him pretty interesting.

[QUOTE=The Stills;45412271]A Metal Sonic alt skin for Sonic would be rad.[/QUOTE] tbh Metal Sonic could work as a seperate character. He was a miniboss in Sonic The Fighters with his own moveset.

[QUOTE=Darkfawful;45414073][IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/251ea29d37dd46a574a764112398176f/tumblr_inline_n8sp05VxnS1rjw2mu.jpg[/IMG] It could work, but anything is a step up from the skins Sonic had in Brawl.[/QUOTE] Since we are even getting model swaps for some skins, I wish it will be more true to Classic Sonic, like this: [img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/classicsonic_zpsd44a3143.png[/img] Complete with pudginess and all.

I dont see why they dont make shadow a sonic skin, seems super obvious. Maybe even a few elss obvious ones too like silver/knuckles/other shitty sonic characters

And here it is. [url]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201[/url] [QUOTE]We've just announced two new characters who will be joining the fray in the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U. One is Robin, the avatar from Fire Emblem: Awakening, and the other is Lucina, a swordswoman who plays an important role in the same title. I'll skip over the details. "What? Not Chrom!?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina, and I will elaborate on my reasoning. Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic. His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title. I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time. Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical. However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with. I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means. At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics. Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect! In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games. Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup. However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray![/QUOTE]

part of me can't help but think "why does ike not uses axes, why did roy not use ranged fire attacks" just reading that oh well, good read.

Yeah, as I suspected- Chrom was just another sworduser, while The Tactician had much more variety. Overall I'm glad he explained everything as they did, we would have had a lot more angry fanboys had he not given an explanation.

[QUOTE] In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes.[/QUOTE] Does this imply that we could still get different characters as palette swaps? I'm not sure if I'm a fan of that idea if that's the case.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;45414583]part of me can't help but think "why does ike not uses axes, why did roy not use ranged fire attacks" just reading that oh well, good read.[/QUOTE] While Roy can be explained by time constraints, I can't explain anything for Ike. Maybe it was easier to have that. Speaking of which, [URL="http://goo.gl/FX3mLs"]here's some [/URL] [URL="http://goo.gl/O8hy54"]really cool articles[/URL] about the development of Smash.

I understand his reasoning on not including chrom, but it's interesting to see he went ahead and made Lucina a alt to then upgrade to clone in the first place. I haven't played Awakening, would of it been weird for Chrom to have gotten that kind of deal as a alt/clone of Marth or Ike? Seems strange to me they would not make the main lord(?) playable in some form. [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kirbunny431;45414610]Does this imply that we could still get different characters as palette swaps? I'm not sure if I'm a fan of that idea if that's the case.[/QUOTE] Considering that was the plan with Lucina in the first place.... yes? I don't mind it at all long as the announcer voice and such gets changed.

[quote]At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike.[/quote] But Lucina turned out to be exactly this, a direct clone of an existing 'plain-old sword-wielder' I... don't understand, maybe I misread. His logic on the matter seems a bit flawed. [editline]t[/editline] He seems aware of fans' distaste of bland swordsmen - acknowledging it there, possibly even agreeing with the sentiment - but he goes and adds another anyway.

[QUOTE=Kirbunny431;45414610]Does this imply that we could still get different characters as palette swaps? I'm not sure if I'm a fan of that idea if that's the case.[/QUOTE] inb4 fox/falco/wolf are all the same character

Despite the fact that Falco and Wolf function substantially differently from Fox and from eachother? Also don't even joke about that, I want Falco to return at least.

[QUOTE=Everything;45414676]But Lucina turned out to be exactly this, a direct clone of an existing 'plain-old sword-wielder' I... don't understand, maybe I misread. His logic on the matter seems a bit flawed. [editline]t[/editline] He seems aware of fans' distaste of bland swordsmen - acknowledging it there, possibly even agreeing with the sentiment - but he goes and adds another anyway.[/QUOTE] It's more so creating a third swordsman from the ground-up with new attacks alongside Marth and Ike already, rather than just taking a lesser effort job in making a clone out of a pre-existing character.

[QUOTE=Everything;45414676]But Lucina turned out to be exactly this, a direct clone of an existing 'plain-old sword-wielder' I... don't understand, maybe I misread. His logic on the matter seems a bit flawed. [editline]t[/editline] He seems aware of fans' distaste of bland swordsmen - acknowledging it there, possibly even agreeing with the sentiment - but he goes and adds another anyway.[/QUOTE] I guess he didn't want to invest time into coming up with a unique moveset for another swordsmen character, and Lucina is more closely related to Marth so she makes more sense as the Marth clone. It also seems like he wanted to make Lucina an alt costume at first which makes a lot more sense than having Chrom as an alt costume, then later on decided that he wanted to add a new playstyle with the same core moves so he just gave her a new slot.

Long story short Lucina didn't take away planned time from other characters and didn't replace anyone, let's enjoy the extra slot.

[QUOTE=Everything;45414777]Despite the fact that Falco and Wolf function substantially differently from Fox and from eachother? Also don't even joke about that, I want Falco to return at least.[/QUOTE] They still all have the same specials and similar normal attacks. They function far too similarly in melee/brawl for my liking and I hope they change it up a bit instead of having 3 guys be so similar. And yes, I know falco is super light, wolf is heavy as shit etc. Like give them vastly different blasters or up specials. Seriously you talk about "omg bland swordsman" and then defend the starfox trio

Lets look at the Starfox trio's forward smashes: Fox: Spinning forward kick Falco: Double wing slash Wolf: Long-range forward cross-lunge Now lets look at Ike, Marth and Lucina's. Ike: Sword swing Marth: Sword swing Lucina: Sword swing I'm not saying they don't share anything, I'm saying they share much less than THAT. Yes I'm oversimplifying it, [B][I][U]but so did you.[/U][/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Dermock;45414848]They still all have the same specials and similar normal attacks. They function far too similarly in melee/brawl for my liking and I hope they change it up a bit instead of having 3 guys be so similar. And yes, I know falco is super light, wolf is heavy as shit etc. Like give them vastly different blasters or up specials. Seriously you talk about "omg bland swordsman" and then defend the starfox trio[/QUOTE] Wolf is far from a clone aside from using a reflector & Landmaster. His A-Moves are far different from Fox & Falco's & his recovery + side move while somewhat similar in function is different in damage & hitboxes.