The Super Smash Bros. Discussion and HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunc - Games

Cold Steel needs to become an alternate costume for Sonic. Taunting results in "Psssh...nothin personnel...kid..."

[t]http://i.imgur.com/y7BPhyC.jpg[/t] [quote] Pic of the day. We have Nintendogs plus cats! How could we forget them!! Just FYI, there are about five dog breeds in this game. This was me, reporting from the 3DS-exclusive stage, Living Room. [/quote]

A 'clone' is traditionally a character which almost all of your existing knowledge of another character can readily apply to, and allow you to use them comfortably almost immediately. Mario to Dr. Mario, Pikachu to Pichu, Link to Young/Toon Link, etc. That may have been true of Fox to Falco in Melee, but Falco and Wolf in Brawl need to be learned from scratch if you want to be any good with them. Wolf in particular is all sorts of bizarre if you mainly play Fox.

[QUOTE=Ayane-152;45414935][t]http://i.imgur.com/y7BPhyC.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] well they can't all be winners.

cats are important

[QUOTE=Everything;45414886]Lets look at the Starfox trio's forward smashes: Fox: Spinning forward kick Falco: Double wing slash Wolf: Long-range forward cross-lunge Now lets look at Ike, Marth and Lucina's. Ike: Sword swing Marth: Sword swing Lucina: Sword swing I'm not saying they don't share anything, I'm saying they share much less than THAT. Yes I'm oversimplifying it, [B][I][U]but so did you.[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE] Lets take a look at Ike, Marth and Lucina's final smashes: Ike: Great Aether Marth: Critical Hit Lucina: Probably something really cool Now look at the Starfox trio's Fox: Landmaster Falco: Landmaster Wolf: Landmaster [sp]Not contributing to the argument, just making a joke.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ayane-152;45414935][t]http://i.imgur.com/y7BPhyC.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Sakurai Action News, I like it.

[QUOTE=cs_bunny;45415174] Lucina: Probably something really cool[/QUOTE] Reminds me. Considering Toon Link and to a extent Sheik sharing Final Smashes with someone else at least so far and on what Sakurai has said about her.... if someone isn't expecting Critical Hit for Lucina they are prob going to be disappointed.

[QUOTE=XSFOX;45415239]Reminds me. Considering Toon Link and to a extent Sheik sharing Final Smashes with someone else at least so far and on what Sakurai has said about her.... if someone isn't expecting Critical Hit for Lucina they are prob going to be disappointed.[/QUOTE] any news on sheik/toon link getting a diff final smash?

[QUOTE=Dermock;45415323]any news on sheik/toon link getting a diff final smash?[/QUOTE] No, in the demo they both kept theirs from Brawl.

[QUOTE=Croshi;45415334]No, in the demo they both kept theirs from Brawl.[/QUOTE] boo. then again, what can you really do for toon link/sheik that's different?

[QUOTE=UntouchedShadow;45414904]Cold Steel needs to become an alternate costume for Sonic. Taunting results in "Psssh...nothin personnel...kid..."[/QUOTE] Coldsteel is cool and all but what we really need is a Sonichu alt

[QUOTE=Dermock;45415343]boo. then again, what can you really do for toon link/sheik that's different?[/QUOTE] Toon Link: Ballad of Gales (Summons a huge tornado that draws foes towards the middle of the stage. If they fail to resist, they're spun around and flung away) Shiek: Shiekah Trick (Tosses a deku nut at the ground and causes an incredibly bright flash, stunning all other players. The closer they are to Shiek, the longer they are stunned)

[QUOTE=Dermock;45415343]boo. then again, what can you really do for toon link/sheik that's different?[/QUOTE] Sheik I don't know, but Toon Link could have brought out a Hurricane with his Wind Waker.

[QUOTE=Dermock;45415343]boo. then again, what can you really do for toon link/sheik that's different?[/QUOTE] I dunno, Toon Link's Wind Waker fucking up the stage with intense winds or something like that would be interesting. Personally now I want to see Sheik summon Bongo Bongo, only to get thrown like a weaponized ragdoll at other fighters. I have absolutely no idea why. :v:

knowing how fast these threads move, i have no doubt that i'm going to be late [img]https://31.media.tumblr.com/75023d7193319235c77df7388caf1f28/tumblr_n8pibdQlkP1rdchndo1_500.png[/img]

[QUOTE=lintz;45415446]knowing how fast these threads move, i have no doubt that i'm going to be late [img]https://31.media.tumblr.com/75023d7193319235c77df7388caf1f28/tumblr_n8pibdQlkP1rdchndo1_500.png[/img][/QUOTE] There's a difference between making a new model that is just recolorable and a model that has to accept multiple differently modeled costume pieces for hundreds, possibly even thousands of different possibilities. And I'm pretty sure making 2 models doubles the modeling workload. I think ubisoft is shitty in general but this is just plain wrong.

[QUOTE=Dermock;45415467]There's a difference between making a new model that is just recolorable and a model that has to accept multiple differently modeled costume pieces for hundreds, possibly even thousands of different possibilities. And I'm pretty sure making 2 models doubles the modeling workload. I think ubisoft is shitty in general but this is just plain wrong.[/QUOTE] (ps assassins have items added to their model dynamically)

After reading that little post, I severely disagree with his design choice. You guys might think my opinion matters less since I never played Awakening, but whatever: He chose to not include Chrom out of the fact that he wouldn't have any unique characteristics. That makes sense. But comparing Chrom and Lucina, Lucina is much, much less unique than Chrom. She looks like a less androgynous Marth. From what I gather, she started out in the original game disguised as Marth. And yet she was deemed to have enough unique characteristics? What would those be? And his decision to make her an alternative costume also confuses me: he made her separate because she's a bit different, game-play wise. Fair enough. However, judging by what he's saying, this game-play difference is extremely small: her sword damages evenly throughout, rather than more at the tip like Marth's. He thought that this was an important enough difference to make her her own character, that it was that important to include a character where the difference was damage placement? I honestly don't see it. I really want to hear the more exact thought process in how Lucina is more unique, and how, from a gameplay perspective, her differences are that significant.

[QUOTE=Dermock;45415467]There's a difference between making a new model that is just recolorable and a model that has to accept multiple differently modeled costume pieces for hundreds, possibly even thousands of different possibilities. And I'm pretty sure making 2 models doubles the modeling workload. I think ubisoft is shitty in general but this is just plain wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=lintz;45415515](ps assassins have items added to their model dynamically)[/QUOTE] Also, the Animation Director for Assassin's Creed 3 said it would take a couple of days at most to do the reworking necessary.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;45415592]After reading that little post, I severely disagree with his design choice. You guys might think my opinion matters less since I never played Awakening, but whatever: He chose to not include Chrom out of the fact that he wouldn't have any unique characteristics. That makes sense. But comparing Chrom and Lucina, Lucina is much, much less unique than Chrom. She looks like a less androgynous Marth. From what I gather, she started out in the original game disguised as Marth. And yet she was deemed to have enough unique characteristics? What would those be? And his decision to make her an alternative costume also confuses me: he made her separate because she's a bit different, game-play wise. Fair enough. However, judging by what he's saying, this game-play difference is extremely small: her sword damages evenly throughout, rather than more at the tip like Marth's. He thought that this was an important enough difference to make her her own character, that it was that important to include a character where the difference was damage placement? I honestly don't see it. I really want to hear the more exact thought process in how Lucina is more unique, and how, from a gameplay perspective, her differences are that significant.[/QUOTE] for chrom it was "we need a new newcomer; chrom, another guy who uses a sword primarily, or robin, who uses a bunch of cool magic as well? let's go with robin, they seem more unique" for lucina it was "we have lucina as an alt costume for marth but it seems weird to have a completely different character as a costume, so let's slightly tweak her moveset and make her a seperate character, it won't take much effort"

No, his reasoning for Lucina is "She has a different fighting style canonically, so giving her Marth's mechanics makes no sense, and having a costume with new mechanics doesn't either. I made her a different character to fix this." [quote]When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot.[/quote]

[QUOTE=KingOfScience;45415647]for chrom it was "we need a new newcomer; chrom, another guy who uses a sword primarily, or robin, who uses a bunch of cool magic as well? let's go with robin, they seem more unique" for lucina it was "we have lucina as an alt costume for marth but it seems weird to have a completely different character as a costume, so let's slightly tweak her moveset and make her a seperate character, it won't take much effort"[/QUOTE] If it was Robin versus Chrom, I can totally see why Robin over Chrom, but why Chrom over Lucina (unless she's a more significant character). And by Sakurai's wording, it wasn't "let's make her her own character, and change the moveset," it was "we already changed the moveset, so she can't be her own character."

Sakurai was already in the process of adding Lucina as an alt costume when he got the idea to alter her mechanics so she'd be truer to source. He had mused on Chrom before then but decided against it. [editline]t[/editline] Since my last post on the matter got exactly 16 seconds on the current page before the new one started, and since my comment is relevant to the issue, I'm going to quote it for visibility's sake. [QUOTE=Everything;45415675]No, his reasoning for Lucina is "She has a different fighting style canonically, so giving her Marth's mechanics makes no sense, and having a costume with new mechanics doesn't either. I made her a different character to fix this." Quote Sakurai: "When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot."[/QUOTE]

The most important thing is Lucina isn't "taking up a slot" like a lot of people over the net get pissed over; so she isn't lowering the chances of any other characters being added in. Hell, thanks to her, I can safely put money on Dark Pit being his own character, or at least a fancy reskin for Pit.

[QUOTE=Everything;45415696]Sakurai was already in the process of adding Lucina as an alt costume when he got the idea to alter her mechanics so she'd be truer to source. He had mused on Chrom before then but decided against it. [editline]t[/editline] Since my last post on the matter got exactly 16 seconds on the current page before the new one started, and since my comment is relevant to the issue, I'm going to quote it for visibility's sake.[/QUOTE] Thanks, I actually missed that. But isn't that exactly what he did? Give Lucina Marth's mechanics, with a very slight difference? [editline]17th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Eva-1337;45415754]The most important thing is Lucina isn't "taking up a slot" like a lot of people over the net get pissed over; so she isn't lowering the chances of any other characters being added in. Hell, thanks to her, I can safely put money on Dark Pit being his own character, or at least a fancy reskin for Pit.[/QUOTE] There's no such thing as "taking up a slot," because Sakurai can put as many damned characters as he pleases. So far, I still think she's a bit uncreative, though, and am disappointed in the similarities.

I'm not going to be surprised if she wasn't the only character under that format before being promoted. Potential "easy" to implement alt/clone candidates that come to mind for me right now are Dark Pit, Daisy, Metal Sonic, Proto-man, Ms Pac-man, Impa, Blood Falcon and maybe Krystal.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;45415756]But isn't that exactly what he did? Give Lucina Marth's mechanics, with a very slight difference?[/QUOTE] He did that because he didn't want an alternate costume to have different mechanics, since that would mess with character stat tracking and competitive use of the game. Basically giving her a slot of her own was the option that was easiest for everyone and carried the least risk. [QUOTE=LegndNikko;45415756]There's no such thing as "taking up a slot," because Sakurai can put as many damned characters as he pleases. So far, I still think she's a bit uncreative, though, and am disappointed in the similarities.[/QUOTE] Not ENTIRELY true. You can only fit so much on a disk, after all. There's got to be some sort of hard limit of how many he can squeeze in because of that.

[QUOTE=Everything;45415785]Not ENTIRELY true. You can only fit so much on a disk, after all. There's got to be some sort of hard limit of how many he can squeeze in because of that.[/QUOTE] Smash 4 certainly has the highest-quality assets in the series yet, but it's also got more space than Brawl I believe thanks to the Wii U's disc formats. The 3DS has more notable size constraints, but that's probably why the stages aren't as generally 'complex' as the Wii U versions. It also helps that they're not going for a full-blown story again, so there shouldn't be an excessive amount of pre-rendered videos that would also cramp up a lot of the size like Brawl.

Could it be possible that rhythm heaven reps would just appear in assist trophies? Aren't there other franchises whose inclusion is solely in assist trophies?