[QUOTE=DONOTWANT;41739102]Bump & parallax maps might not have been included in the in-game video. Sound penetration & damping probably aren't simulated either. I think Source has code for sound delay obeying the speed of sound, but it's not used in most games. Not entirely sure about that one.
And if you think that video was neat check this out:
[B]Please Put Your Stereo Headphones On Now.[/B]
[video=youtube;uzFswCpJPqg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzFswCpJPqg[/video]
(Imagine a rocket flying by your head with sound like that.)[/QUOTE]
Holy fuck that was incredible. I can only dream of having something like this in a video game. The immersion the player could feel would be through the roof!
Two eyes allow us to see in 3D, two ears allow us to hear in 3D. Stereo tv has been around since the 70's, so why's hasn't it been done sooner? If it could be done in a single mod & videos are linked from popular gaming sites, it won't be long before it's available in a commercial game. Then every game & movie will start trying it. :dance:
[QUOTE=xalener;41739868]
I do think this is a bit of a dead end discussion though. I've seen this vid circulated since it was uploaded, but I've never seen the tech anywhere actually get used.[/QUOTE]
That's probably because they don't distribute the source code. They have some rather detailed .pdf's available in the link I provided, but no actual lines of code. If the team is willing to make new code from the math given, then they could implement it into the mod. The real question is if it's worth the time & the processing power.
I'm a little confused about the current audio discussion - don't games already do this? Pretty sure audio spatialization has been a thing for a while now. I'm pretty sure of this because my right speaker is broken and in a lot of games (including source games) I have to wear headphones or try to keep things on my left in order to hear them.
Unless "holophonic sound" isn't just a buzzword and actually means something different than audio spatialization.
Is it possible to apply a small blur/dof effect while the game is paused? Also what other stuff should be added to the in-game menu?
I'm pretty sure that you don't want to watch the credits in the middle of your game :v: (they could always be added to the extras menu?)
[t]http://i4.minus.com/iPGiC5M1O8Byh.png[/t]
[QUOTE=The Vman;41739652]I think the big problem is that HL2's default sounds already have echo baked in them. So the sound engine is also echoing the echo that's in the sound by default, making it sound really weird.[/QUOTE]
The later ones that have serious delayed echo do (The breencasts later in the game); but pretty much all the sounds are pure without echo.
[editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=xalener;41738583]They turned it up for demonstration purposes.
I mean come on, no one actually expects it to be maxed out if it gets real usage in a game, right?[/QUOTE]
Well, also:
[quote]Some limitations of our approach are due to the high computational
cost of wave simulators on today’s desktops – the simulation’s frequency limit and restricted volume. Others arise from precomputation – our restriction to static scenes and high runtime memory use
(hundreds of MBs) even with fairly low spatial sampling. Memory use could be reduced by extracting an even more compact set
of ERIR perceptual parameters such as loudness, clarity, etc. Finding a “perceptually complete” set is an open research problem, as
is determining spatial sampling requirements for perceptually accurate auralization. Our technique might be practically extended
to dynamic scenes by simulating low-dimensional parameterized
scenes, such as an opera house at various degrees of seating occupation. It could also benefit from approximations to handle dynamic
objects, perhaps by separately precomputing frequency-dependent
occlusion factors and then applying them on the fly.[/quote]
So basically, the quick falloff is because the louder something is / further it goes; the more computationally intensive, this stuff eats a LOT of ram.
[editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
I mean, it's really computationally intensive
[quote]simulation on a Cathedral. The dimensions of this scene
are 35m×15m×26m and it contains 11.9 million cells. We are able to
perform numerical sound simulation on this complex scene on a desktop
computer and pre-compute a 2 second long impulse response in 15
hours, taking 1.5GB of memory. The auralization, or sound rendering at
runtime consists of convolution of the calculated impulse responses with
arbitrary source signals, that can be computed efficiently. A commonly
used approach that we compare against, FDTD, would take 2 weeks of
computation and 25GB of memory for this scene.[/quote]
That's more or less an 'average' scene in source, that's a lot of computation JUST for sound.
[QUOTE=RaTcHeT302;41742079]Is it possible to apply a small blur/dof effect while the game is paused? Also what other stuff should be added to the in-game menu?
I'm pretty sure that you don't want to watch the credits in the middle of your game :v: (they could always be added to the extras menu?)
[t]http://i4.minus.com/iPGiC5M1O8Byh.png[/t][/QUOTE]
I like the top left one, with the blur just under the menu
[QUOTE=glitchvid;41742265]The later ones that have serious delayed echo do (The breencasts later in the game); but pretty much all the sounds are pure without echo.
[editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
Well, also:
So basically, the quick falloff is because the louder something is / further it goes; the more computationally intensive, this stuff eats a LOT of ram.
[editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
I mean, it's really computationally intensive
That's more or less an 'average' scene in source, that's a lot of computation JUST for sound.[/QUOTE]
You know, I was just playing borderlands 2 and its audio is all around really fucking good. I know they use Wwise, which appears to be a competitor to Fmod or something. The first I'd heard of them is in BL2, and from what I've heard, they're pretty god damn amazing.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;41743397]you should take out that arrow pointer, it makes it feel like im playing some japanese arcade version of the game
the darkened hover highlight does its job just fine already[/QUOTE]
along with the redundant chapter names and chapter numbers above and below the icons, respectively
[editline]7th August 2013[/editline]
just use the names
[QUOTE=RaTcHeT302;41742079]Is it possible to apply a small blur/dof effect while the game is paused? Also what other stuff should be added to the in-game menu?
I'm pretty sure that you don't want to watch the credits in the middle of your game :v: (they could always be added to the extras menu?)
[t]http://i4.minus.com/iPGiC5M1O8Byh.png[/t][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/597010849592933314/7929FE0922BC4911AD92C8B79871E3A55CF1F96C/[/IMG]
Your idea seems to be already built-in!
[QUOTE=p0rtalplayer;41741533]I'm a little confused about the current audio discussion - don't games already do this? Pretty sure audio spatialization has been a thing for a while now. I'm pretty sure of this because my right speaker is broken and in a lot of games (including source games) I have to wear headphones or try to keep things on my left in order to hear them.
Unless "holophonic sound" isn't just a buzzword and actually means something different than audio spatialization.[/QUOTE]
no no no, holophonic/binaural sound is when you have a rigged model of a head (with, what i presume to be a similar density to a human head) with monophone microphones attached to each ear of the head, combined into stereo. our sense of localizing sound is based on interaural differences in time, amplitude, and frequency - small differences of a sound that it takes from a sound placed to the left of you to reach your right eardrum, and vice versa.
generally games do not emulate this at all - just basic stereo panning. there are ultra-accurate ways of replicating this binaural effect but generally all you would need is some sort of HRTF, or head-related transfer function. some sound cards support HRTF functions in their drivers and openAL has HRTF support (while FMOD, from what i gather, is still developing it, using only a "fake" HRTF that is only really a basic lowpass effect)
however the accuracy of the simulated binaural effect is also really dependent on the shape of your head, and thus different data from head measurements must be in the HRTF, or the effect will not be that convincing. i believe Creative's approach in their drivers has you choose between different types of heads and you can choose which one feels most appropriate for you.
[QUOTE=Aurora93;41745682]no no no, holophonic/binaural sound is when you have a rigged model of a head (with, what i presume to be a similar density to a human head) with monophone microphones attached to each ear of the head, combined into stereo. our sense of localizing sound is based on interaural differences in time, amplitude, and frequency - small differences of a sound that it takes from a sound placed to the left of you to reach your right eardrum, and vice versa.
generally games do not emulate this at all - just basic stereo panning. there are ultra-accurate ways of replicating this binaural effect but generally all you would need is some sort of HRTF, or head-related transfer function. some sound cards support HRTF functions in their drivers and openAL has HRTF support (while FMOD, from what i gather, is still developing it, using only a "fake" HRTF that is only really a basic lowpass effect)
however the accuracy of the simulated binaural effect is also really dependent on the shape of your head, and thus different data from head measurements must be in the HRTF, or the effect will not be that convincing. i believe Creative's approach in their drivers has you choose between different types of heads and you can choose which one feels most appropriate for you.[/QUOTE]
Ah, okay then. That sounds really neat. But probably more of a stretch goal for this project than, say, replacing individual sounds?
[QUOTE=UberMunchkin;41746964]Would it be possible to add Colour Correction/Grading in this? Day of Defeat was the first source game to use it and Source Filmmaker can change it on the fly.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHKyfYnFwW8[/media]
Personally I think it'd add to the atmosphere to certain areas ingame (But I don't mean like using the ones in the video, that's just a little demonstration)[/QUOTE]
Color correction has basically always been a feature in Source, and yes it can change on runtime, using trigger brushes in the map.
Colour correction can work if it's used properly, like if you made the level 'cool', but the door where Grigori busts out of 'warm'. You could also make the Citadel feel cold and unwelcoming, but it already kinda feels like that. I'm no colour expert though so I'll leave it to them.
It's easy to fuck up color correction and make stuff look awful. HL2 was designed without it, so I'd say it's probably a good idea to keep it that way.
I agree. When developers get a new effect to work with like color correction, DOF or bloom, it's usually really overdone as if to shout "admire my pretty new effect damn-it!"
[QUOTE=glitchvid;41742265][editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
I mean, it's really computationally intensive
That's more or less an 'average' scene in source, that's a lot of computation JUST for sound.[/QUOTE]Haha-oh wow. Had I known it took so much, I wouldn't have bothered posting the video in the first place.
[QUOTE=Uberslug;41751388]It's easy to fuck up color correction and make stuff look awful. HL2 was designed without it, so I'd say it's probably a good idea to keep it that way.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, dealing with Source's color correction is a bitch, since it uses an annoying format that can't be edited outside of the engine easily (I have some really good color correction software I'd love to use, but it just goes 'what')
Yeah, I've experimented with it too and it's a pain in the ass.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;41751747]Yeah, dealing with Source's color correction is a bitch, since it uses an annoying format that can't be edited outside of the engine easily (I have some really good color correction software I'd love to use, but it just goes 'what')[/QUOTE]
Not only that, when I'm satisfied with my Color Correction results and I go to export it, when I use it, it's straight up NOT what I had in the first place.
"What's that? You want the game to look a teensy bit warmer? WELL HOW ABOUT IF I SET THE WORLD ON FIRE RED ORANGE EVERYWHERE"
[QUOTE=wauterboi;41756388]Not only that, when I'm satisfied with my Color Correction results and I go to export it, when I use it, it's straight up NOT what I had in the first place.
"What's that? You want the game to look a teensy bit warmer? WELL HOW ABOUT IF I SET THE WORLD ON FIRE RED ORANGE EVERYWHERE"[/QUOTE]
Sounds like every colour correction mod ever
"So yeah this mod gets rid of the green tint in Fallout 3 and makes everything look a whole lot nicer and more realistic"
[t]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/595881868032587248/93A813943FE9C08F1DC4EE2B348668E643BD982B/[/t]
[B][I]"REALISTIC"[/I][/B]
L4D series has lots of quality color correction settings, maybe some of them could look good.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;41743397]you should take out that arrow pointer, it makes it feel like im playing some japanese arcade version of the game
the darkened hover highlight does its job just fine already[/QUOTE]
[t]http://i5.minus.com/ik59UUshPMAIi.png[/t]
[t]http://i3.minus.com/iwwOF7rLD5Moh.png[/t]
I'm not sure what to do next, I created a gallery with all the concepts I'm going to upload for now.
[url]http://min.us/mc2EtHEunaZAp[/url]
[QUOTE=Ken Chan;41745675]Your idea seems to be already built-in![/QUOTE]
I completly forgot about that but I was wondering if it was possible to get rid of the Black & White effect, blur only certain areas of the menu, and darken specific elements.
[B]Edit[/B]
Eh, here's a loading screen, still got to tweak it (probably).
[t]http://i1.minus.com/ibckTqQaekrS7t.png[/t]
Personally I think hard edges look better with the rectangle on the right, but that's just me.
I liked the edges better when they were pointy.
[QUOTE=HGrunt;41756504]L4D series has lots of quality color correction settings, maybe some of them could look good.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, although its probably not worth the effort, some areas COULD look really good with correct color correction. Ravenholm and the citadel, for example. Of course, Half Life looks fine without it, so eitherway really.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;41756388]Not only that, when I'm satisfied with my Color Correction results and I go to export it, when I use it, it's straight up NOT what I had in the first place.
"What's that? You want the game to look a teensy bit warmer? WELL HOW ABOUT IF I SET THE WORLD ON FIRE RED ORANGE EVERYWHERE"[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's one of the issues.
Mainly I don't want to use the ingame tools, since I have a nice lut editing package; so I'd love to edit outside of engine, then import it into the engine, but the format is completely ass backwards, and nothing works with it.
I think We'll add color correction, but only where it's needed. Other than that, we'll most likely leave the original colors.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;41758963]I think We'll add color correction, but only where it's needed. Other than that, we'll most likely leave the original colors.[/QUOTE]
The issue is it's really, REALLY hard to work with, unless we get it fixed I think the place place we can use it would be Ravenholm, anywhere else would be too much work for such little payoff.
I think the background in the menu should not be blurred.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;41759097]The issue is it's really, REALLY hard to work with, unless we get it fixed I think the place place we can use it would be Ravenholm, anywhere else would be too much work for such little payoff.[/QUOTE]
Well while I have NO idea how it's done, so maybe I really shouldn't talk, this mod is about making half life 2 the best it can be, and I think we can all agree if it makes the game look better, the extra effort is always worth it
[QUOTE=SirLemon;41762284]Well while I have NO idea how it's done, so maybe I really shouldn't talk, this mod is about making half life 2 the best it can be, and I think we can all agree if it makes the game look better, the extra effort is always worth it[/QUOTE]
It's extremely complicated and really annoying to deal with it, I literally have to use 3 programs outside of source to even properly modify it, and then get it back in to source without it being broken.
The replication of it's own effects aren't even that good. All in all the CC would only help so much; so unless we actually get someone with a ton of experience doing film color correction, I doubt it would even look that fantastic.
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Half-Life 2: Enhancement Mod (V5)
