[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;40493549]Let's take a look at a texture from a game, here's one from L4D2:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/MLgDw61.png[/t]
Hmmm, looks like it has painted on lighting.[/QUOTE]
crysis 3 diffuse
[t]http://i.imgur.com/7cbSyHe.jpg[/t] -> [t]http://images.wikia.com/crysis/images/6/62/Majesticclean.png[/t]
more example
[t]http://puu.sh/2ak4l[/t] -> [t]http://puu.sh/2a4IS[/t]
[t]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1725586/mpeg7/jerk/OKAY.jpg[/t] -> [t]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1725586/mpeg7/jerk/4real.jpg[/t] (also taking the time here to mention that polymer doesn't scratch very easily)
let the engine handle it dude, because honestly think about it -- why would static, unchanging lighting ever be better than something that interacts with the environment properly?
painted on lighting is so 2003
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;40493549]Let's take a look at a texture from a game, here's one from L4D2:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/MLgDw61.png[/t]
Hmmm, looks like it has painted on lighting.[/QUOTE]
If you paint lighting on then what's the point in even generating an ambient occlusion texture for the diffuse. Or having phong or a specular. The point of those texture maps and shaders is to assist in generating realistic lighting effects so you don't have to texture it on yourself like, as Joazzz said, a game from 2003.
[QUOTE=Snood_1990;40494197]If you paint lighting on then what's the point in even generating an ambient occlusion texture for the diffuse. Or having phong or a specular. The point of those texture maps and shaders is to assist in generating realistic lighting effects so you don't have to texture it on yourself like, as Joazzz said, a game from 2003.[/QUOTE]
weeellllllll sometimes even with current-gen methods you'll get brief moments where no direct light's shining on the model, and then it'll look dull and uninteresting , like so:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/7cbSyHe.jpg[/t] (crysis 2/3 can get away with this because it's got realtime radiosity so there's rarely a dull moment)
that's when you'd probably want some subtle baked lighting - never as a substitute for any kind of direct lighting!
[QUOTE=Juniez;40493764]texture stuff[/QUOTE]
Now to me, this does not look real, at all. I have never seen a texture done that way that actually looked real, because game engines aren't good enough to make it look real when doing that. You have to fake the realism in order to make it look good.
Baked AO and baked lighting might be old, but it still [I]kicks butt[/I], eg.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/DsGqJgr.png[/t][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56479384/logoless.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Butthurter;40494271]but source engine isnt capable of handling lighting this well
its the main reason unreal engine 3 and cry engine resources look unnatural in source, because of the lack of "painted on lighting"
source isnt capable of looking that good, it absolutely has to fake these things[/QUOTE]
source 2009+ has spec - gloss and phong lighting, everything you need to get going. (it's even got environment mapping, something that UE3 doesn't support by default)
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;40494283]Now to me, this does not look real, at all. I have never seen a texture done that way that actually looked real, because game engines aren't good enough to make it look real when doing that. You have to fake the realism in order to make it look good.
Baked AO might be old, but it still [I]kicks butt[/I], eg.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/DsGqJgr.png[/t][/QUOTE]
you should always bake AO because that kind of light occlusion remains the same regardless of the model's current lighting
STOP arguing about texture work
this is getting ridiculous - all we're doing is shouting stupid opinions
so just stop before you get yourselves hurt
[QUOTE=Butthurter;40494311]source is an old as balls engine with terribly outdated lighting, it needs to live off this style of texturing
comparing source to cryengine is just like comparing doom engine to quake
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
and it has crappy radiosity, you are seriously overestimating how far source can go[/QUOTE]
like no engine has realtime radiosity (except for CE3, even frostbite 2 bakes their radiosity), and when it's not baked it's pretty much fair game to approximate / extract lighting data from lightmaps (UE3, source, unity, etc)
with source 2007+'s support for phong it's put it right up there with pretty much every engine (sans realtime shadowing)
[QUOTE=Butthurter;40494435]difference is that phong shaders in source dont render in the dark - only rimlighting does and that honestly looks like crap in tf2 and csgo, it cannot pull off fancy lighting effects like metro 2033 or bf3[/QUOTE]
except if it was in the dark it shouldn't be lit up at all?
[QUOTE=SFC003;40494377]STOP arguing about texture work
this is getting ridiculous - all we're doing is shouting stupid opinions
so just stop before you get yourselves hurt[/QUOTE]
There's not even an argument going on here, just a difference in opinions. That's how advancement and mutualism and other good things happen.
Why is it every thread we get into arguments such as this one?
[I]I personally[/I] think that games that don't have baked lighting look cartoony, and crappy. I know people will disagree with me on this, and people will also agree with me on this. It's a matter of opinion.
Juniez, we both have different styles of doing things, so you texture the way you want to texture, I'll texture the way I want to texture, it's as simple as that.
[QUOTE=Juniez;40493764]crysis 3 diffuse
[t]] -> [m/u/1725586/mpeg7/jerk/4real.jpg[/t] (also taking the time here to mention that polymer doesn't scratch very easily)
let the engine handle it dude, because honestly think about it -- why would static, unchanging lighting ever be better than something that interacts with the environment properly?[/QUOTE]
If source could actually handle giving every single weapon it's own ambient occlusion (waste of performance since the effect would never change throughout the game so it would be static, yet still being re-rendered 30 times a second, exactly like a baked on ambient shading effect, except with extra performance loss! great.) then you would have a point, but they could never get SSAO in a working state/actually be precise and clear. Corgi even stated himself in the first thread that he doesn't like adding in baked shading into models because of the black armpit syndrome most characters get when it's baked and not rendered real-time. Source can't do it, or they can't get it to work, that's the only reason.
Plus, people that were saying this is 'an immersion killer' (actually only one person said this, his name is Chonch), and are kind of dumb, because it's [b]ambient shading[/b] not [b]direct clear light being casted in only one direction and once you look up it's ruined the illusion.[/b] You have to remember we're playing a game where shadows aren't even dynamic so when you walk from one shade to another no matter how slow you walk the gun just instantly gets darker. That didn't break (and probably still doesn't) your immersion did it? And it's like, 5000 times more awful then BAKED ON AMBIENT SHADING
[editline]sds[/editline]
WHICH EVERY GAME HAS BEEN DOING UNTIL CRYSIS
[editline]sds[/editline]
also to prove my point again, why did you show an example of the game that's known for looking like CGI and real life when you know this is running on the source engine, like a million steps down from it from a technological perspective? Their engine can do it, Source can't.
Try finding a Source game that doesn't use baked on lighting, I doubt you could find a single one. Fucksakes, even though CS:GO has dynamic lighting for everything, it still has baked on shading on all characters.
I've tried making weapons with no baked lighting work in source and it just doesn't look that good a lot of the time :v
not saying it cannot work but imo baked lighting is much easier and faster and it looks just as good as non baked in source engine. it might be nice to obtain a medium between the both, though? like less intense baked lighting mixed with a nice spec map and shaders.
Doesn't the deferred renderer somewhat rectify this? I mean, if that were what you guys are doing. You've said you aren't.
Aside from all the arguing about lighting, can I just suggest that the SMG retain it's 2 tone design?
[img]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/b/bb/MP7_HL2.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Ken Chan;40490056][video=youtube;byRXzjBacgk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byRXzjBacgk[/video]
Now, who's going to spam-shouting Jason with me?[/QUOTE]
looks like you just shoved my animations in without setting up 9way code-wise correctly
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;40495903]Aside from all the arguing about lighting, can I just suggest that the SMG retain it's 2 tone design?
[img]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/b/bb/MP7_HL2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Expanding on this [sub][sub]quoted because post break[/sub][/sub], you could texture it so that the 'metallic' end is dark in the dark and bright in the light.
[img]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/8/8b/Nlo_medic_aftermath.jpg[/img][img]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/8/8c/D2_coast_070033.JPG[/img]
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;40496120]Expanding on this [sub][sub]quoted because post break[/sub][/sub], you could texture it so that the 'metallic' end is dark in the dark and bright in the light.
[img]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/8/8b/Nlo_medic_aftermath.jpg[/img][img]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/8/8c/D2_coast_070033.JPG[/img][/QUOTE]
Now with the more polymer like skin, I think we're going to forgo using a ton of reflectivity (We're probably just going to stick with phong) I also think that the slightly brighter lighting on the SMG actually looks better.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;40495903]Aside from all the arguing about lighting, can I just suggest that the SMG retain it's 2 tone design?[/QUOTE]
I'll whip up a 2-toned one tomorrow to see how it looks.
Guess whos HDD broke down this time :v: but in all seriouseness, HEV suit is on a hold now..
Its now trying to fix my HDD but it will probably fail in the end.
No worries though, i saved everything on dropbox.
[QUOTE=kwant111;40499099]Guess whos HDD broke down this time :v: but in all seriouseness, HEV suit is on a hold now..
Its now trying to fix my HDD but it will probably fail in the end.
No worries though, i saved everything on dropbox.[/QUOTE]
You had SVN access right ?
I doesn't bite, just commit stuff to your dev folder and if bad things happen: the files persist.
[QUOTE=kwant111;40499099]Guess whos HDD broke down this time :v: but in all seriouseness, HEV suit is on a hold now..
Its now trying to fix my HDD but it will probably fail in the end.
No worries though, i saved everything on dropbox.[/QUOTE]
Well it works again, for the first time ever Windows repair actually worked! (after 5 times :v:)
I'll post a quick update on the HEV after I grab my lunch.
[video=youtube;5RE3TnLP67Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RE3TnLP67Y&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Some SMG stuff, mainly the phong.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;40500763]i couldnt help myself getting distracted by the sudden start making it sound like as though eli farted[/QUOTE]
"Dad, please"
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40500741][video=youtube;5RE3TnLP67Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RE3TnLP67Y&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Some SMG stuff, mainly the phong.[/QUOTE]
the footsteps are odd
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40500942]the footsteps are odd[/QUOTE]
I think it's the volume.
[QUOTE=Ken Chan;40490056][video=youtube;byRXzjBacgk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byRXzjBacgk[/video]
Now, who's going to spam-shouting Jason with me?[/QUOTE]
Why is the pistol held one-handed? The only time that makes any sense is when duel-wielding, which itself is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Ken Chan;40501814][video=youtube;6pbgPoui_P4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pbgPoui_P4[/video][/QUOTE]
Wait, the rebel actually holds the SMG with one hand only? When he moves (read: most of that video) his left hand goes away from the other grip ... I seriously hope that gets fixed.
It's so bad how you guys just shut down masses of complaints as "artistic choice"... or "It's WIP, of course it will be changed"
*never gets changed*
"I wish people wouldn't wait till it was in-engine and it's "too late"* to make changes"
*it's never too late and that's a terrible way of thinking.
I don't understand why you're texturing that gun in such an old fashioned way, either... this is meant to be an enhancement mod so using such dated techniques is strange.
Because source is a old engine, and you need to fake many things to make a model look right.
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Half-Life 2: Enhancement Mod (V5)
