I think the summary of this entire thread is:
1. Someone suggests a topic
2. Roundtable discussion between forum members for ~ 30-40 posts
3. Someone changes the subject
4. Everyone talks about that for ~ 10-20 posts
Repeat.
AND OCCASIONALLY:
1. A dev post a WIP/Media release
2. People talk about that for a while (30-40 posts)
3. Someone suggests a topic or changes the subject
4. People talk about that for 10-20 posts
This thread is full circle. There's no escaping it.
Half Life 2 is sacred to lots of people. They want to see an improvement or a modernization with no change, and that just isn't possible. There are fundamental flaws with Half Life 2; Elephants in the room that no one wants to address because it's a classic and people have learned to love it for its strengths AND weaknesses.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42615015]I'd rather it not be fixed at all than to change it that much :v:[/QUOTE]
This is the kind of shit that deeply troubles me when it comes to this mod and other efforts like it even outside the realm of vidya. Too many not willing to compromise for new things that could make this a [I]better game[/I].
[QUOTE=xalener;42659854]*Huge freaking wall of text*[/QUOTE]
Christ, I just said HL2 was never really a gory game. Why are you retalliating with an entire speech?
All I'm saying is that, in my opinion (are we still allowed to have those?), is that HL2 was never really gory, and I think that's a good thing, as HL2 isn't focused solely on violence. Yeah we said feedback would be good, but we discussed that a while back in the thread. Also sorry if I interpreted what you said as only wanting gore, but you were bringing up things like dismemberment, which I think is a bit overboard for half life.
TL;DR Feedback is good, but it doesn't need to be a bloodbath
I'd say that even Half-Life 2 isn't exactly HL2 anymore, thanks to alfred.
*added in cuz fucking SEB*
[QUOTE=SirLemon;42660058]Christ, I just said HL2 was never really a gory game. Why are you retalliating with an entire speech?
All I'm saying is that, in my opinion (are we still allowed to have those?), is that HL2 was never really gory, and I think that's a good thing, as HL2 isn't focused solely on violence. Yeah we said feedback would be good, but we discussed that a while back in the thread. Also sorry if I interpreted what you said as only wanting gore, but you were bringing up things like dismemberment, which I think is a bit overboard for half life.
TL;DR Feedback is good, but it doesn't need to be a bloodbath[/QUOTE]
See, that last statement there is why I feel the need to over explain myself. Half Life 2 doesn't need to be more of a bloodbath because it already is a bloodbath. It's a bloodbath with no faucet and no one knows how the fuck the blood got there. It's a game where guns don't do anymore than you see in a fucking Pokemon battle. It always ends with "Combine Prison guard has fainted!". That's what annoys me about your posts on this matter. You haven't really explained why a more visceral HL2 would take focus away from the story and be detrimental to the overall experience. It seems like you're reusing an argument against people who'd suggest that other games be more gory directly to their actual developers. Dude, Half Life 2 is done. It released almost a decade ago. No amount of work on any aspect of the game at this point is gonna take away from something else. There's NOTHING to lose from these types of things and there's ONLY things to gain. How will blowing a combine's skull open take the sting away from Mossman's betrayal? How will a grenade that takes the legs off of a citizen next to you make the scene of Breen's telecast machine being pulled down any less powerful? If anything that particular scene will hold way more weight because you've seen the TRUE horrors of the combine regime first hand instead of just seeing a bunch of rebels knocked over like dominoes.
[editline]27th October 2013[/editline]
Damn it SEB... but yeah, you're right. Half Life 2 hasn't been HL2 since the patch nation attacked. Hell, the only way to play it 100% unbroken is through an old pirate copy or on the original Xbox, and that.... that kinda sounds like the basis for another project. "The Half Life 2 un-enhancement mod" Ah! There's a nice project for you, SirLemon!
NixNax123 had better be working on a damn good counterargument.
[QUOTE=DONOTWANT;42657832]You'd be surprised by how many people might think Combine soldiers and Metrocops are just humanoid aliens.[/QUOTE]
at one point i thought elites where some xen aliens
[QUOTE=xalener;42660094] Wall of ungodly amounts of rant[/QUOTE]
Wow, just from this wall-o-rant I'm seeing "half life 2 needs gore whether you like it or not and I'm right and you're wrong."
Part of the charm of Half-Life 2 for me wasn't splitting a zombie in half, it was launching ragdolls 50 feet away with whatever gun you had. That was a satisfying and a funny thing to do as well.
Half Life's AI is completely fine and is up to standard with 2004 Singleplayer AI which is being heavily scripted and told what to do. Some animations could be added, but it would be completely unnecessary thing to do, if you really want a metrocop falling on his knees and grabbing his wound, then you would need a death animation and the one thing that a lot of people remember Half Life 2 having is ragdolls compared to other games at the time which didn't have them.
Why do I want to see the horrors of the Combine regime when they are already shown blatantly everywhere else?
Combat is completely fine, Black Mesa Source seems to think so too considering it uses the same AI from Half Life 2 that is once again scripted to do whatever the mapper desires.
My question to you is the same as Lemon's: Why do you so desperately want Half Life 2 to be a blood bath as it really appears to be your primary point in your wall-o-rant.
[QUOTE=THATCAKEISASPY;42660610]Wow, just from this wall-o-rant I'm seeing "half life 2 needs gore whether you like it or not and I'm right and you're wrong."
Part of the charm of Half-Life 2 for me wasn't splitting a zombie in half, it was launching ragdolls 50 feet away with whatever gun you had. That was a satisfying and a funny thing to do as well.
Half Life's AI is completely fine and is up to standard with 2004 Singleplayer AI which is being heavily scripted and told what to do. Some animations could be added, but it would be completely unnecessary thing to do, if you really want a metrocop falling on his knees and grabbing his wound, then you would need a death animation and the one thing that a lot of people remember Half Life 2 having is ragdolls compared to other games at the time which didn't have them.
Why do I want to see the horrors of the Combine regime when they are already shown blatantly everywhere else?
Combat is completely fine, Black Mesa Source seems to think so too considering it uses the same AI from Half Life 2 that is once again scripted to do whatever the mapper desires.
My question to you is the same as Lemon's: Why do you so desperately want Half Life 2 to be a blood bath as it really appears to be your primary point in your wall-o-rant.[/QUOTE]
black mesa had laughable AI at best.
I don't understand such intense discussion over an effect which could only be triggered (possibly configurable with a cvar for chance of happening as well) with one weapon at a close range, whilst targeting one part.
I'm going to say that in my opinion, hl2's gore and shooting effects in general need a lot of work. why not add some toggle able eye candy for peoples amusement? and as for stuff like metrocops/combine soldiers reacting to being shot it would be nice but preferred if it didn't inhibit their combat routines (i.e. if you shoot them they stop firing/moving etc like their existing behaviour for being set on fire) but you could implement something with the twitch anims and code already implemented for hl2.
also, what's wrong with death anims? for something like dying from a bullet wound, the ragdoll doesn't fly 50 feet, it just merely slumps to the ground in most cases. I'm pretty sure from what I've seen in the model files anims exist for twitch poses for death anims, so it wouldn't do much harm to have some longer, more fleshed out animations as well.
(fuck this is worded and organized poorly sorry guys)
Black Mesa source AI is almost the same exact AI in Half Life 2 just with different voices and models.
"54 posts! There's probably some new piece of content!" I thought.
Instead you guys are talking about Metrocop masks, gibbing and shotgun blasts. Get your shit together, this isn't really top priority.
[QUOTE=uzikus;42661112]"54 posts! There's probably some new piece of content!" I thought.
Instead you guys are talking about Metrocop masks, gibbing and shotgun blasts. Get your shit together, this isn't really top priority.[/QUOTE]
how dare us have a discussion about potentially enhancing part of hl2 for a mod called "Half-life 2: Enhancement mod".
Holy shit, settle down.
I'm all for the discussion of ideas, but them turning into all out flame wars is going way too far.
We'll see what we do, I personally think seeing armor get chipped and fall off seems cool, but it's really not technically feasible: and gibs are outright over the top for HL2's more subdued style.
[editline]27th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrBunneh;42661159]how dare us have a discussion about potentially enhancing part of hl2 for a mod called "Half-life 2: Enhancement mod".[/QUOTE]
Because there's a difference between a discussion; and an outright argument about anything and everything.
[QUOTE=SirLemon;42660058]Christ, I just said HL2 was never really a gory game. Why are you retalliating with an entire speech?
All I'm saying is that, in my opinion (are we still allowed to have those?), is that HL2 was never really gory, and I think that's a good thing, as HL2 isn't focused solely on violence. Yeah we said feedback would be good, but we discussed that a while back in the thread. Also sorry if I interpreted what you said as only wanting gore, but you were bringing up things like dismemberment, which I think is a bit overboard for half life.
TL;DR Feedback is good, but it doesn't need to be a bloodbath[/QUOTE]
Hl2 is actually pretty gory, I think we've just kind of been desensitized to some of it after having been familiar with it for so long.
I mean, consider that the typical zombie has it's chest slit open and you can see it's lungs and ribcage hanging from it...
[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090527180426/half-life/en/images/8/83/Zombie_HL2.jpg[/img]
That's pretty damn gory if you ask me.
Not to mention the ability to slice zombies in half, the citizen corpses with their faces burned off, the striders impaling rebels on their feet, and the arterial spray from Eli when the advisors killed him, HL2's always been pretty violent.
If anything the lack of gore when fighting the combine is what's out of place, as it's so prevalent everywhere else in the game.
I think it fits right in, they're supposed to be enhanced soldiers. I think trying to keep the bullets out and the blood in would be the first thing they do after the brainwashing.
I'm sorry, did you just say HL2 is not gory?!
[IMG]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7228/7131257099_6e0ed12aef_b.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE='[CWG]RustySpannerz;42661878']I'm sorry, did you just say HL2 is not gory?!
[IMG]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7228/7131257099_6e0ed12aef_b.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Guess you could say that gore made the [i]cut[/i] there....
....he's only half the man he used to be....
....I think gore is just a slice of life...
....he got cut in half.
Ok I'll stop.
[QUOTE=Snood_1990;42661932]Guess you could say that gore made the [i]cut[/i] there....
....he's only half the man he used to be....
....I think gore is just a slice of life...
....he got cut in half.
Ok I'll stop.[/QUOTE]
This isn't punny.
[QUOTE=Snood_1990;42661932]Guess you could say that gore made the [i]cut[/i] there....
....he's only half the man he used to be....
....I think gore is just a slice of life...
....he got cut in half.
Ok I'll stop.[/QUOTE]
Take the pic as advice and leave half of those puns on the cutting room floor.
It's interesting to see the course of the thread.. every day there's a new debate that sparked up
[editline]27th October 2013[/editline]
Jeez it's becoming like Mass Debate
[QUOTE=Snood_1990;42661932]Guess you could say that gore made the [i]cut[/i] there....
....he's only half the man he used to be....
....I think gore is just a slice of life...
....he got cut in half.
Ok I'll stop.[/QUOTE]
You really need to [I]cut[/I] that out..
[img]http://www.hark.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/934638.jpg[/img]
i think it's enough to just give a bloody texture
[T]http://25.media.tumblr.com/19597f044e619c2347a92090ebf7bf64/tumblr_mvbz4oHVuu1rmiju6o1_1280.jpg[/T]
IMO HL2's gore is just fine. Better blood splatters and textures are all we really need.
Too much gore takes away from the atmosphere.
[QUOTE=Swog;42662298]
Jeez it's becoming like Mass Debate[/QUOTE]
As long as its not the sensationalist headlines.
I think there should be some gore ramped up a little bit to fit the nature of whatever caused such injury.
As someone said a page or two back, when I double-barrel someone in the face with a shotgun, I want to be able to say to myself "Yeah, that's a shotgun", not "Oh crap someone threw red paint on his face"
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;42662754]Too much gore takes away from the atmosphere.[/QUOTE]
we're looking at you, brutal doom.
[QUOTE=KK3568;42664068]we're looking at you, brutal doom.[/QUOTE]
SMOD, bonus for edible gibs.
[QUOTE=THATCAKEISASPY;42660610]Combat is completely fine.[/QUOTE]
This is my problem. It's not. Like, at all. It's painfully barely serviceable. It was in 2004 too. Also as far as 2004 shooters go, Ragdolls were already commonplace by the time they were in HL2. The thing that set HL2 apart is that it had physics based puzzles and it wasn't just for aesthetics. Hell, the game from that year that I remember for its ragdolls the most was Psi Ops for the xbox.
Also, is this really your fucking defense?
[QUOTE]Half Life's AI is completely fine and is up to standard with 2004 Singleplayer AI[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked it was 2013 and last time I checked, this was a fucking enhancement mod. Not a "it's fine, leave it" mod. Also, last time I checked, F.E.A.R came out only about a year later and wiped the fucking floor with Half Life 2. As a shooter. The level design was more restricted, the atmosphere wasn't as specific and grounded, and the story... well, we know what happened to F.E.A.R's story... but as a shooter, the AI, the hit reactions, the gun feel, every-fucking-thing was nailed to a T. I sincerely hope you don't just skim this paragraph and respond with "IF YOU WANT F.E.A.R GO PLAY FEAR HUR LOLOLOL." What I'm saying is that Half Life 2's weakest aspects were swiftly outclassed. We have a chance to tighten it up, and you're fucking sitting there going "it's fine." Okay.
[QUOTE]"half life 2 needs gore whether you like it or not and I'm right and you're wrong."[/QUOTE]
If that's what you took from the rant, then I didn't properly put my point across. I think that Half Life 2 could benefit from enemies that react better and more specifically to your weaponry, be it through dismemberment or better and more abundant hit reactions and death animations or a combination of both. If you think I'm wrong I want fucking reasons, not "it's fine". No one comes to this thread for "it's fine"
This mod wasn't founded in the first goddamn place because "it's fine." It, just like every other enhancement project from games to movies to cars to architecture was started [u]specifically[/u] because certain shit about the game is FAR from fine. Some stuff was fine in 2004, and aged bad. Some stuff was just plain never fine. In my opinion, that's everything combat related.
[QUOTE]Black Mesa source AI is almost the same exact AI in Half Life 2 just with different voices and models.[/QUOTE]
I've been told it was rewritten from the ground up and only uses combine solder animations. Either way it's fucking terrible. BMS AI isn't even laughable at best. It's "oh, at least he walked semi close to cover" at best and "this may as well be a fucking autoturret on wheels that can only go in a straight line" at worst. Fighting the combine? They zigzag a bit more. That's fucking it. If that's your "fine" then please stay away from the game development business.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;42662754]
Too much gore takes away from the atmosphere.[/QUOTE]
Adding subtle partial dismemberment is not too much gore for Half Life 2. I never suggested full on Smod loud crunchy gibbing with meat chunks the size of office chairs bursting out of people along with five rib cages. I'm suggesting Saving Private Ryan. The same old hits, hitting harder. And that being said, it doesn't have to be dismemberment. It could be alternate textures as suggested and better impact effects. Vman's current ones are already head and heels better than default, so that's one thing out of the way.
[QUOTE=xalener;42664186]This is my problem. It's not. Like, at all. It's painfully barely serviceable. It was in 2004 too. Also as far as 2004 shooters go, Ragdolls were already commonplace by the time they were in HL2. The thing that set HL2 apart is that it had physics based puzzles and it wasn't just for aesthetics. Hell, the game from that year that I remember for its ragdolls the most was Psi Ops for the xbox.
Also, is this really your fucking defense?
Last time I checked it was 2013 and last time I checked, this was a fucking enhancement mod. Not a "it's fine, leave it" mod. Also, last time I checked, F.E.A.R came out only about a year later and wiped the fucking floor with Half Life 2. As a shooter. The level design was more restricted, the atmosphere wasn't as specific and grounded, and the story... well, we know what happened to F.E.A.R's story... but as a shooter, the AI, the hit reactions, the gun feel, every-fucking-thing was nailed to a T. I sincerely hope you don't just skim this paragraph and respond with "IF YOU WANT F.E.A.R GO PLAY FEAR HUR LOLOLOL." What I'm saying is that Half Life 2's weakest aspects were swiftly outclassed. We have a chance to tighten it up, and you're fucking sitting there going "it's fine." Okay.
If that's what you took from the rant, then I didn't properly put my point across. I think that Half Life 2 could benefit from enemies that react better and more specifically to your weaponry, be it through dismemberment or better and more abundant hit reactions and death animations or a combination of both. If you think I'm wrong I want fucking reasons, not "it's fine". No one comes to this thread for "it's fine"
This mod wasn't founded in the first goddamn place because "it's fine." It, just like every other enhancement project from games to movies to cars to architecture was started [u]specifically[/u] because certain shit about the game is FAR from fine. Some stuff was fine in 2004, and aged bad. Some stuff was just plain never fine. In my opinion, that's everything combat related.
I've been told it was rewritten from the ground up and only uses combine solder animations. Either way it's fucking terrible. BMS AI isn't even laughable at best. It's "oh, at least he walked semi close to cover" at best and "this may as well be a fucking autoturret on wheels that can only go in a straight line" at worst. Fighting the combine? They zigzag a bit more. That's fucking it. If that's your "fine" then please stay away from the game development business.
Adding subtle partial dismemberment is not too much gore for Half Life 2. I never suggested full on Smod loud crunchy gibbing with meat chunks the size of office chairs bursting out of people along with five rib cages. I'm suggesting Saving Private Ryan. The same old hits, hitting harder. And that being said, it doesn't have to be dismemberment. It could be alternate textures as suggested and better impact effects. Vman's current ones are already head and heels better than default, so that's one thing out of the way.[/QUOTE]
we've already settled on a stance for gore now please stop
I'm just frustrated, which is obvious. Not at the violence discussion, but at the staggering amount of people who would rather Half Life 2's decade old flaws blemish the mod. It's not just this. It was the dropship discussion, the gun sound "feedback", every single wall texture that's been posted since the beginning of the thread, the gravity gun barrel length fiasco, the updated lighting to the exterior of the train station in the first four pages of this thread. Every update, every suggestion, every attempt at a donation is met with "it's fine the way it is"
I concede on the matter of player feedback.
[QUOTE=KK3568;42664068]we're looking at you, brutal doom.[/QUOTE]
D00M doesn't have "too much gore" until cyberdemons explode into microscopic bits from simply poking
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Half-Life 2: Enhancement Mod (V5)
