for something that is just too difficult to notice at all it seems stupid to try and correct it.
is your immersion really broken if you're watching a movie and a camera is barely visible in a shot? is a novel ruined if you're reading a book and there's a typo? does a song immediately suck if someone misses a chord accidentally?
there are much greater, much more outstanding issues than correcting how the maps sometimes overlap
[QUOTE=Aurora93;43410168]for something that is just too difficult to notice at all it seems stupid to try and correct it.
is your immersion really broken if you're watching a movie and a camera is barely visible in a shot? is a novel ruined if you're reading a book and there's a typo? does a song immediately suck if someone misses a chord accidentally?
there are much greater, much more outstanding issues than correcting how the maps sometimes overlap[/QUOTE]
Songs can still sound good if a chord is missed, books can still be nice to read if they contain typos, and movies can still be everything those movies were intended to be if a camera is barely visible. And, yes, games with overlapping levels can still be fantastic games. That's not the point: I'm not saying that Half-Life 2 is [I]ruined[/I] by overlapping levels, in the same way that Half-Life 2 isn't ruined by low quality textures, all I'm saying is that when games intend to make sense and do not make sense, it's reasonable to assume that anyone, say, [I]enhancing[/I] them would change that.
[QUOTE=SirLemon;43409014]If I wanted realism I'd go outside[/QUOTE]
Or, say, I don't know, provide suggestions to a mod designed to add more realism?
[QUOTE=therupertbob;43410406]Songs can still sound good if a chord is missed, books can still be nice to read if they contain typos, and movies can still be everything those movies were intended to be if a camera is barely visible. And, yes, games with overlapping levels can still be fantastic games. That's not the point: I'm not saying that Half-Life 2 is [I]ruined[/I] by overlapping levels, in the same way that Half-Life 2 isn't ruined by low quality textures, all I'm saying is that when games intend to make sense and do not make sense, it's reasonable to assume that anyone, say, [I]enhancing[/I] them would change that.
Or, say, I don't know, provide suggestions to a mod designed to add more realism?[/QUOTE]
I'd hardly call fixing the overlapping enhancing, cause think of it: To make it not overlap would require huge alterations to the level design. I don't think it's worth sacrificing level design for the 2% who even noticed it in the first place.
[QUOTE=SirLemon;43409014]If I wanted realism I'd go outside[/QUOTE]
The Fifth Element isn't as realistic as Prometheus, but makes waaay more sense because it has its own set of rules and it follows them. Prometheus doesn't. He's arguing that Half Life 2 leans toward the Prometheus side of the scale in terms of level design.
He's not wrong, but the opposition is arguing that the major changes it would take to lay out the maps more logically would not be worth it, especially since a lot of it would require breaking the flow of some maps.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;43410950]u need help[/QUOTE]
I know that this is incredibly unfair, but I'm going to analyse how that at all proves that I need help: "Songs can still sound good if a chord is missed"
Well, that's hardly a controversial opinion, unless you're somehow the musical equivalent of a grammar nazi.
"Books can still be nice to read if they contain typos"
Again, I highly doubt that [I]this[/I] was what caused you to say that I needed help. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
"Movies can still be everything those movies were intended to be if a camera is barely visible."
I still don't see it. I guess that I'm biased though, I'm sure that this comment shows that I am in need of serious help.
"That's not the point: I'm not saying that Half-Life 2 is ruined by overlapping levels, in the same way that Half-Life 2 isn't ruined by low quality textures"
Nothing really controversial here, everyone, myself included, seems to love Half-Life 2. I guess that we're all idiots, then?
"When games intend to make sense and do not make sense, it's reasonable to assume that anyone, say, enhancing them would change that."
Nothing crazy about this one: enhance is a synonym of "improve," and if one of the intentions of a game is to make sense, and it fails at that, then, as I'm sure the majority of people that my insane mind considers sane, this is generally a bad thing, something that could be improved.
"..."
Oh. Looks like that's the end. Well, I've shown why I think that I'm not stupid, now it seems that the burden of proof is on you.
Wait a second... what if this was a plan? I plan to get me to show my insanity, to respond rationally and reasonably to a misspelled comment without any punctuation whatsoever!!! If so, well played.
Um, anyway, I don't mind if you don't include it, I just thought that maybe I would be given either a "no" or "yes" to my question, and I didn't get one. I'm fine without it, I just thought that it would be nice to add some more consistency. I really don't care that much.
[QUOTE=therupertbob;43411373]I know that this is incredibly unfair, but I'm going to analyse how that at all proves that I need help: "Songs can still sound good if a chord is missed"
Well, that's hardly a controversial opinion, unless you're somehow the musical equivalent of a grammar nazi.
"Books can still be nice to read if they contain typos"
Again, I highly doubt that [I]this[/I] was what caused you to say that I needed help. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
"Movies can still be everything those movies were intended to be if a camera is barely visible."
I still don't see it. I guess that I'm biased though, I'm sure that this comment shows that I am in need of serious help.
"That's not the point: I'm not saying that Half-Life 2 is ruined by overlapping levels, in the same way that Half-Life 2 isn't ruined by low quality textures"
Nothing really controversial here, everyone, myself included, seems to love Half-Life 2. I guess that we're all idiots, then?
"When games intend to make sense and do not make sense, it's reasonable to assume that anyone, say, enhancing them would change that."
Nothing crazy about this one: enhance is a synonym of "improve," and if one of the intentions of a game is to make sense, and it fails at that, then, as I'm sure the majority of people that my insane mind considers sane, this is generally a bad thing, something that could be improved.
"..."
Oh. Looks like that's the end. Well, I've shown why I think that I'm not stupid, now it seems that the burden of proof is on you.
Wait a second... what if this was a plan? I plan to get me to show my insanity, to respond rationally and reasonably to a misspelled comment without any punctuation whatsoever!!! If so, well played.
Um, anyway, I don't mind if you don't include it, I just thought that maybe I would be given either a "no" or "yes" to my question, and I didn't get one. I'm fine without it, I just thought that it would be nice to add some more consistency. I really don't care that much.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;xvSP78dv94c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvSP78dv94c[/video]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("video macro reply" - postal))[/highlight]
The dam jump brings it to sea level. You can see in the airboat/onfoot the outlet for the dam flows into the main river that heads out to sea and you can see this on the ingame map at the rebel camp.
[QUOTE=therupertbob;43411373]I know that this is incredibly unfair, but I'm going to analyse how that at all proves that I need help: "Songs can still sound good if a chord is missed"
Well, that's hardly a controversial opinion, unless you're somehow the musical equivalent of a grammar nazi.
"Books can still be nice to read if they contain typos"
Again, I highly doubt that [I]this[/I] was what caused you to say that I needed help. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
"Movies can still be everything those movies were intended to be if a camera is barely visible."
I still don't see it. I guess that I'm biased though, I'm sure that this comment shows that I am in need of serious help.
"That's not the point: I'm not saying that Half-Life 2 is ruined by overlapping levels, in the same way that Half-Life 2 isn't ruined by low quality textures"
Nothing really controversial here, everyone, myself included, seems to love Half-Life 2. I guess that we're all idiots, then?
"When games intend to make sense and do not make sense, it's reasonable to assume that anyone, say, enhancing them would change that."
Nothing crazy about this one: enhance is a synonym of "improve," and if one of the intentions of a game is to make sense, and it fails at that, then, as I'm sure the majority of people that my insane mind considers sane, this is generally a bad thing, something that could be improved.
"..."
Oh. Looks like that's the end. Well, I've shown why I think that I'm not stupid, now it seems that the burden of proof is on you.
Wait a second... what if this was a plan? I plan to get me to show my insanity, to respond rationally and reasonably to a misspelled comment without any punctuation whatsoever!!! If so, well played.
Um, anyway, I don't mind if you don't include it, I just thought that maybe I would be given either a "no" or "yes" to my question, and I didn't get one. I'm fine without it, I just thought that it would be nice to add some more consistency. I really don't care that much.[/QUOTE]
can you please stop
we already said this isn't happening, it doesn't care how realistic it would be
it doesn't pay off
and, almost nobody will ever notice
yeah i know you're trying to "make the game sense so let's put some sense in the mod" but this probably isn't happening for multiple reasons, so can you please stop?
[QUOTE=Antivirus_404;43412217]can you please stop
we already said this isn't happening, it doesn't care how realistic it would be
it doesn't pay off
and, almost nobody will ever notice
yeah i know you're trying to "make the game sense so let's put some sense in the mod" but this probably isn't happening for multiple reasons, so can you please stop?[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but it seems that you missed the ending to the comment that you just replied to. It said: "I don't care." Now, I know that this is incredibly implausible, but this may be due to the fact, that I do not care.
[QUOTE=Antivirus_404;43412217]can you please stop
we already said this isn't happening, it doesn't care how realistic it would be
it doesn't pay off
and, almost nobody will ever notice
yeah i know you're trying to "make the game sense so let's put some sense in the mod" but this probably isn't happening for multiple reasons, so can you please stop?[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but what the hell are you arguing against?
Because I can tell you that what you said hasn't got the slightest to do with what he said.
did not read his previous comment
give me all the dumbs you can
[QUOTE=Antivirus_404;43413551]did not read his previous comment
give me all the dumbs you can[/QUOTE]
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[highlight](User was banned for this post ("dumb reply. this is NOT how you post on the forums." - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;43414000]Well this escalated quickly. It's like the resonance cascade itself.[/QUOTE]
TheRupertBob Cascade!
oh god that was awful
This thread has always been riddled with shit, but goddamn, maybe it's the Christmas holidays or something, but it's hit rock bottom.
[QUOTE=therupertbob;43410406]a mod designed to add more realism?[/QUOTE]
Who said that lol
[editline]4th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=~ZOMG;43414123]This thread has always been riddled with shit, but goddamn, maybe it's the Christmas holidays or something, but it's hit rock bottom.[/QUOTE]
The Rust fanbase is leaking out.
I mean, have you [I]seen[/I] the amount of people in there at a time?
[QUOTE=Antivirus_404;43414466]what's rust[/QUOTE]
Feigning ignorance doesn't make you look better.
-snip-
This is what happens when people focus too much on the smallest things, the only actual inconsistency that is actually noticeable is the plaza in front of the trainstation and I even believe that they're going to fix that because it doesn't look like you need to change the entire layout of a map to do that.
[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;43414947]This is what happens when people focus too much on the smallest things, the only actual inconsistency that is actually noticeable is the plaza in front of the trainstation and I even believe that they're going to fix that because it doesn't look like you need to change the entire layout of a map to do that.[/QUOTE]
Also the train yard, the types of doors (1.5 width becoming 1 width), and also the outside of the Nexus has 4 doors but the inside has 3.
The topic's passed but honestly if the mod team wants to change the maps to actually have sensible non-stupid geography then they should. If they leave it as it is, it's not like it'll be immersion breaking, it would just be nice to see that all the maps intersect correctly, I suppose, shows a lot of detail put in. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me can expand on the subject, however. It may seem like a large change for something insignificant, but at the same time there's still a reason for it to be changed, like all the other things in this mod.
[QUOTE=IceyMalone;43421616]The topic's passed but honestly if the mod team wants to change the maps to actually have sensible non-stupid geography then they should. If they leave it as it is, it's not like it'll be immersion breaking, it would just be nice to see that all the maps intersect correctly, I suppose, shows a lot of detail put in. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me can expand on the subject, however. It may seem like a large change for something insignificant, but at the same time there's still a reason for it to be changed, like all the other things in this mod.[/QUOTE]
I think it could be extremely game-breaking. The reason the maps don't overlap perfectly is because Valve chose level design over it. It would be, to be frank, incredibly stupid to change a maps layout to fix an error almost nobody cares about, or would have even noticed before someone actually brought it up.
[QUOTE=SirLemon;43422315]I think it could be extremely game-breaking. The reason the maps don't overlap perfectly is because Valve chose level design over it. It would be, to be frank, incredibly stupid to change a maps layout to fix an error almost nobody cares about, or would have even noticed before someone actually brought it up.[/QUOTE]
There are ways to overcome that, and when we were discussing that very same point way back when, we thought of ways to. Sure it's a lot of work, yes no one will notice, and yeah time would be better spent on something else. But if [i]they chose [/i] to do it, no, they wouldn't need to change level design to make it make more sense. And if they ever did change a walking space and make it SLIGHTLY SMALLER I don't think it would be an issue. Or something else to that extent.
And plus, in my honest opinion it would be nice playing a "new" Half life 2, experiencing "new" parts of the game, instead of just going through the same stuff with super hd windows! and super hd guns! and extra enemiiis!
there are instances where level design is completely dreadfull and if you think it would be incredibly stupid to change level design over an error, albeit an error not a lot of people notice, then i'd disagree with you
[QUOTE=endorphinsam;43422948]There are ways to overcome that, and when we were discussing that very same point way back when, we thought of ways to. Sure it's a lot of work, yes no one will notice, and yeah time would be better spent on something else. But if [i]they chose [/i] to do it, no, they wouldn't need to change level design to make it make more sense. And if they ever did change a walking space and make it SLIGHTLY SMALLER I don't think it would be an issue. Or something else to that extent.
And plus, in my honest opinion it would be nice playing a "new" Half life 2, experiencing "new" parts of the game, instead of just going through the same stuff with super hd windows! and super hd guns! and extra enemiiis!
there are instances where level design is completely dreadfull and if you think it would be incredibly stupid to change level design over an error, albeit an error not a lot of people notice, then i'd disagree with you[/QUOTE]
I think you misunderstood me. If the re-design of a level is to make it flow more smoothly, then I'm behind that for sure. However doing it just for such a small error is moronic. Also, yes they would need to change level design to fix it, as the design of the level is the sole reason the maps are laid out the way they are.
The only thing I think that would be neat to add to the level design is the ability to still see the Citadel from the coast, like someone else posted a while back.
[QUOTE=Marcolade;43423155]The only thing I think that would be neat to add to the level design is the ability to still see the Citadel from the coast, like someone else posted a while back.[/QUOTE]
Kinda against that, would require removing the fog which really adds to the atmosphere, only map that would be ok with that would be the lighthouse map as it has no fog at all but even then it might feel weird.
holy shit, this thread is going downhill.
[QUOTE=banshee93;43424518]holy shit, this thread is going downhill.[/QUOTE]
Its just another street war. Give it a day and a new argument will arise.
[QUOTE=endorphinsam;43422948]There are ways to overcome that, and when we were discussing that very same point way back when, we thought of ways to. Sure it's a lot of work, yes no one will notice, and yeah time would be better spent on something else. But if [i]they chose [/i] to do it, no, they wouldn't need to change level design to make it make more sense. And if they ever did change a walking space and make it SLIGHTLY SMALLER I don't think it would be an issue. Or something else to that extent.
And plus, in my honest opinion it would be nice playing a "new" Half life 2, experiencing "new" parts of the game, instead of just going through the same stuff with super hd windows! and super hd guns! and extra enemiiis!
there are instances where level design is completely dreadfull and if you think it would be incredibly stupid to change level design over an error, albeit an error not a lot of people notice, then i'd disagree with you[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the super HD cans
add foghorn to coast
[QUOTE=banshee93;43424518]holy shit, this thread is going downhill.[/QUOTE]
i've said this to someone before, and i'll say it again: this mod would be better off with a more closed system of development. yes, it is a "community-led" mod, but honestly the "community" (i.e. people who don't actually do any of the modding, just arguing or w/e, which i guess would include myself) seems to be pretty fucking pointless and annoying.
i remember when we were developing ivan's secrets (yeah, we're still working on it, just not on source, don't ask) we kind of just decided to get rid of the facepunch thread and just kept development a little more closed from then on due to the dumb drama and arguments from people who didn't even work on the mod
It would be great if we could have a thread that's about the mod and not the quality of the thread, maybe the thread would be nicer.
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Half-Life 2: Enhancement Mod (V5)
