[QUOTE=tehstrelok;43922146]Brightside has improved the animation, but there is something about the way the mag is taken out, like it´s just pulling it, like if it was loose the whole time, when some mechanism to release should be pressed.
[video=youtube;F0_QiIh0cPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0_QiIh0cPY[/video][/QUOTE]
Ok now with those new sounds and effects it makes it even less like the AR2- seriously if I saw it and didn't know what it was suppossed to be I would've guessed it was just some tacticool heavy space gun thing, not the AR2 from HL2.
[QUOTE=BMCHa;43919486]I tried to integrate it into lightmappedgeneric for asw, as this mod's on that branch and also the 2013 sdk that I used for that proof of concept didn't include full shader sources. However, the shader compiler always crashed halfway through the multi-hour compile. Information on how to fix this is rather lacking (what did you expect from anything Source related), and the only lead I got was that it [i]might[/i] finish if you disable all but one core or something. I never tried it.
Anyways, on the 2013 SDK side of things I just happened to look at Valve's github the other day and noticed that sometime in the intervening months they added all the missing shader sources, so I might be able to get it working there. On the ASW side of things I guess I could try again to get it compiling. Worst case I write/hack together a simpler, limited lightmappedgeneric that both supports parallax correction and a few other important features that probably cover 90%+ of all materials' usage. (This way would require editing the vmts though, as the material patch method I used can't change the shader type, only parameters.)
The only real problem is that doing this all would require time that I'm not sure I have a lot of right now. What wouldn't take as much time is to package up the sources in a "here's some snippets integrate it yourself" way that could be of use to some people. That's at minimum a week or two out though. If I forget try and remind me, I do keep up with this thread.
Edit: I just remembered that for the 2013 SDK part you can't override shaders anyway so vmt editing would be required no matter what in that case. ASW allows overriding but again that is dependent on getting one of the most complex shaders in the game compiling with Valve's oh so modern and well-documented toolset—something I couldn't get to work even without my changes applied.[/QUOTE]
Hook me up, and I'll see what I can do.
[QUOTE=tehstrelok;43922146]Brightside has improved the animation, but there is something about the way the mag is taken out, like it´s just pulling it, like if it was loose the whole time, when some mechanism to release should be pressed.
[video=youtube;F0_QiIh0cPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0_QiIh0cPY[/video][/QUOTE]
It looks nice, but it's not combine
combine technology is sleek and sharp, not fat and round boxy. plus that hammer and arm are way out of whack.
If the arm is going to be putting a new shell in each time it fires, then the mechanism that holds it should be sleeker so it looks like it accepts the round a lot smoother.
well the hammer looks like it came off the dollarama version of the ar2
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23414526/2014-02-15%2014.04.19.jpg[/t]
I personally don't like the shell reload every shot. It looks really awkward and flimsy.
I do really like the perspective of that ar2, but it does need to be sharper.
[QUOTE=tehstrelok;43922146]Brightside has improved the animation, but there is something about the way the mag is taken out, like it´s just pulling it, like if it was loose the whole time, when some mechanism to release should be pressed.
[video=youtube;F0_QiIh0cPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0_QiIh0cPY[/video][/QUOTE]
Personally I find the sounds and effects (except for the combine ball shooting effect) really bad, not just in the way that it doesn't fit, but just not very good. The sound is really flat and has no real resemblance to the actual AR2 and the effect looks really just wrong and takes up way too much space.
The actual model itself, while good, is really not what the AR2 is, but that argument's been made multiple times now. The animations were good though, excellent even.
I have to say though, that clip system makes no sense whatsoever if it works like that. Why on earth would the feeding mechanism be outside? What would it so drastically change that makes it a good idea to not only make the gun do more work the get the next bullet (or whatever) but also make it open to outside hazards.
It reminds me of the pulse rifle from the Dead Space series, to be honest I picture the AR2 as having a similar design to that gun
The top end of it should be all sharp and aggressive like other combine technologies. the vanilla ar2 is divided into three main parts, the lower receiver, the upper receiver, and the strange barrel. each one of them sort of takes on a different geometric form changing the style of it from end to end. It's the gun that defines the combine. It starts with the two rounded chambers at the end, followed by the sharp vented upper receiver that bridges the whole weapon to the stock, and it's all supported by the rounded lower receiver where it's held in a compact form. it has subtle accents like that near useless sight that implies it's merely a backup to the combine cybernetic enhancement. It's a gun that would be dangerous for your everyman, it's sharp and fires dark energy, but in the hands of the cyborg combine armies, it's an efficient killing machine.
The deisgn in the video gives it a consistent form throughout, which sort of takes away the best part of the ar2's deisgn. it's bulky and looks reinforced to be safe for anyone.
Also the muzzleflash. the ar2 in hl2 gives a distinctive 3 point muzzleflash, adding to the mystery of it's alien ammunition. the blue blob just doesnt fit.
The reloading after every shell takes away from the personality of the ar2. makes it less of a thought out dark energy accelerator and more of a "herp derp whack the energy pellet" kind of gun. What would make more sense would be for each pellet to be three shots and disintegrate on the third, becoming some sort of heat or energy venting out the top. As for the clip reload, experiment with that second hand support on the vanilla model, seems like a neat sort of shotgun pump clip release could be made from it.
it's a neat model, but it's no AR2
Are we seriously doing this shit again, and this time on a model that isnt even in the god damn mod. Can we PLEASE get on topic
not to be defensive but
-the remake is thinner than the retail (and even moreso considering valve forgot to build the right side,, or maybe they didn't! the texture doesn't seem to suggest anything and the mesh sure as heck never suggested anything in the first place)
[t]http://i.imgur.com/rhCjsQP.png[/t]
-you can't really extract any meaningful geometry across the designs because the third person "whole gun" model differs from the first person model.... which also differs from the texture they haphazardly slapped on there without considering the mesh
[t]http://i.imgur.com/VHVhJK1.png[/t]
-there is no personality of the ar2's firing mechanism... it's just a recycled "herp derp whack the flare pellet" kind of gun (which did reload after every shell)
-the hammer looks like a firing pin... cause that's what it is
-the entire hl2 weapon set is incredibly disproportionate when compared to their references (sometimes even when compared to the third-person models of the same guns)
-we can't find the 3-prong muzzlflash :v:
valve is good at a lot of things..... consistent design is not one of them
and + it's not that bad! At least I didn't replace the flow with industrial greeble
[t]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110513051354/valve/es/images/6/67/Overwatch_Pulse_Rifle_Textured_by_SgtHK.jpg[/t]
gross. doesnt even have a single similarity with the original design pattern (besides the mistaken proportions)
I'm pretty sure the original style could be pulled off.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/lfVjcLP.png[/t]
[t]http://i6.minus.com/iEhQSlx9gZeSY.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Juniez;43923996][t]http://i.imgur.com/rhCjsQP.png[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/VHVhJK1.png[/t]
and + it's not that bad! At least I didn't replace the flow with industrial greeble
[t]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110513051354/valve/es/images/6/67/Overwatch_Pulse_Rifle_Textured_by_SgtHK.jpg[/t]
gross.[/QUOTE]
I can name a good 20-40 things that are quite different about yours compared to the original, some examples would be the color, you chose a dark gun-metal grey/black, the original's is more of a tinted blue- it's iconic to the weapon. It would be nice to see a custom lightwarp on that for an even cooler effect with the blues. Your gun, from all the pictures I've seen on here and in the modeling section, is still more blocky/angular than the original, and it also has some very different proportions, especially around the clip and the cylinders at the front.
[B][I]valve is good at a lot of things..... consistent design is not one of them[/I]
[I]-the entire hl2 weapon set is incredibly disproportionate when compared to their references (sometimes even when compared to the third-person models of the same guns)[/I]
[I]-you can't really extract any meaningful geometry across the designs because the third person "whole gun" model differs from the first person model.... which also differs from the texture they haphazardly slapped on there without considering the mesh[/I][/B]
The main reason for the inconsistencies between the view models and world models of the weapons was because they had to make it look right from the perspective you were going to be viewing them at (aka why they don't have a modeled right side to the models most of the time, because you'd never see over there so what was the point?) they were designed to only be viewed from the perspective of the player, no where else. That's also why say the gravity gun's barrel was so long for the view model, because in order for it to appear short in the player view and not be obscured, it had to be longer. Very different from the view models, the world models were designed to be viewed at all angles, thus were modeled more to the preportions they wanted them to have.
[B][I]-the hammer looks like a firing pin... cause that's what it is[/I][/B]
I didn't see anyone say it not being a fire pin, someone said it just doesn't look like the original.
[B][I]At least I didn't replace the flow with industrial greeble[/I][/B]
[I]It doesnt even have a single similarity with the original design pattern (besides the mistaken proportions)[/I]
I agree some parts of that design are a bit excessive, and that it has a bit of "industrial greeble" but really it is much closer, proportion-wise, model-wise, and texture-wise to the original than yours. In fact if you look just 2 pages back [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1263005&p=43895520&viewfull=1#post43895520]people seemed to like that design quite a bit[/url], give or take some of the excessive details.
[B][I]-we can't find the 3-prong muzzlflash :v:[/I][/B]
How? :v:
I don't mean to be an asshole about it, but I just needed to get that off my chest...
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;43925271]
[B][I]valve is good at a lot of things..... consistent design is not one of them[/I]
[I]-the entire hl2 weapon set is incredibly disproportionate when compared to their references (sometimes even when compared to the third-person models of the same guns)[/I]
[I]-you can't really extract any meaningful geometry across the designs because the third person "whole gun" model differs from the first person model.... which also differs from the texture they haphazardly slapped on there without considering the mesh[/I][/B]
The main reason for the inconsistencies between the view models and world models of the weapons was because they had to make it look right from the perspective you were going to be viewing them at (aka why they don't have a modeled right side to the models most of the time, because you'd never see over there so what was the point?) they were designed to only be viewed from the perspective of the player, no where else. That's also why say the gravity gun's barrel was so long for the view model, because in order for it to appear short in the player view and not be obscured, it had to be longer. Very different from the view models, the world models were designed to be viewed at all angles, thus were modeled more to the preportions they wanted them to have.
[/QUOTE]
I just want to say with this bit, if you're gonna go for the full body immersion you're going to have to throw this bit of reasoning out. it's going to be impossible to make something look good to the player in this aspect but still make sense unless you construct it from the proportions of the world model, or at the very most somewhere in-between. I can agree with the point about it being too grey, it really does need that distinct blue tone to it. perhaps some small tweaks to the position of the barrel and such as well and it's going to look about as close as you're going to get to the original.
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;43925271]
I agree some parts of that design are a bit excessive, and that it has a bit of "industrial greeble" but really it is much closer, proportion-wise, model-wise, and texture-wise to the original than yours.
[/QUOTE]
no
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1157653/TEMP/ar2-comp.png[/img]
it's absolutely not
[t]http://i.imgur.com/yC4cx2Z.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Juniez;43923996]not to be defensive but
-the remake is thinner than the retail (and even moreso considering valve forgot to build the right side,, or maybe they didn't! the texture doesn't seem to suggest anything and the mesh sure as heck never suggested anything in the first place)
[/QUOTE]
But you even changed what was obvious from the geometry, like downsizing the shield on the right side of the clip. Also the location of the firing chamber being off center from the sights is just wrong. compare the proportions of your firing chamber to that on the hl2 model, looks like yours is a good 2cm thick while the vanilla one is maybe 0.75cm. The whole red part is gone and so are those little doodads that hold in the pellet.
[QUOTE=Juniez;43923996]
-there is no personality of the ar2's firing mechanism... it's just a recycled "herp derp whack the flare pellet" kind of gun (which did reload after every shell)
[/QUOTE]
Yes there is, one pellet of an ar2 can fire multiple bursts of energy. It is a co-operation between the ammunition and the rifle that makes it so effective. making one pellet only one shot takes away the whole personality of the ammunition and just makes the pellets like any other ammo instead of the technology they are.
[QUOTE=Juniez;43923996]
-the hammer looks like a firing pin... cause that's what it is
[/QUOTE]
Except that's not what it is on the ar2, on the ar2 it's a full fledged hammer
[QUOTE=Juniez;43923996]
-we can't find the 3-prong muzzlflash :v:
[/QUOTE]
did you guys play hl2?
[IMG]http://88.191.124.77/phillip/media/2008/jun-08/1024-combine-attack-09.jpg[/IMG]
I like the new model a lot more than the original.
Because to be honest the ar2's viewmodel quality was so inconsistent with the rest of the of the weapons.It's just this flat lowpoly mesh with what looks like a photo texture slapped on it instead modelled out details,even lacking a normal map.
It looks like something they left in from the beta/alpha.
As for the effects, I agree that they need more work.
The muzzleflash is a bit too much and you can barely see what you're shooting at.
And I'd suggest a quick particle funnel (a particle suck in/collect effect) before firing.
I can do some particle effects if you want.
[QUOTE=tehstrelok;43922146]Brightside has improved the animation, but there is something about the way the mag is taken out, like it´s just pulling it, like if it was loose the whole time, when some mechanism to release should be pressed.
[video=youtube;F0_QiIh0cPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0_QiIh0cPY[/video][/QUOTE]
I like it, the firing effects is kinda in the way, either lessen it or make it more transparent or something?
I think the secondary fire effect is fine tho.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;43925715]But you even changed what was obvious from the geometry, like downsizing the shield on the right side of the clip. Also the location of the firing chamber being off center from the sights is just wrong. compare the proportions of your firing chamber to that on the hl2 model, looks like yours is a good 2cm thick while the vanilla one is maybe 0.75cm. The whole red part is gone and so are those little doodads that hold in the pellet. [/QUOTE]
this is probably from me assuming that valve deleted half of the model for performance reasons and trying to go off of more the projected texture's design instead of the pure mesh
...which, who knows, maybe it's just a melty, bent rifle by design with 2 rear sights
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;43925715]Yes there is, one pellet of an ar2 can fire multiple bursts of energy. It is a co-operation between the ammunition and the rifle that makes it so effective. making one pellet only one shot takes away the whole personality of the ammunition and just makes the pellets like any other ammo instead of the technology they are.[/QUOTE]
this doesn't change the fact that the entire design of the ar2 was a hasty afterthought to fit the [B]I[/B]ncindiary[B]Rifle[/B]'s model
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;43925715]did you guys play hl2?[/QUOTE]
yes and it's not in the ar2's particle list and also not in the weapons folder and also not in any gcf
[quote]Juniez: hey is there a way to bring back the 3-prong muzzleflash on the ar2?
Mr. Brightside :V: idk
Mr. Brightside :V: i cant find it in the hl2 particles
Mr. Brightside :V: :(
Juniez: :0
[/quote]
[quote]Stiffy360: no
Stiffy360: I know what materials it uses
Stiffy360: but it's like not there in the vpk
[/quote]
[img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-iiam.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;43925779]I like it, the firing effects is kinda in the way, either lessen it or make it more transparent or something?
I think the secondary fire effect is fine tho.[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Juniez: thats ok
Juniez: as long as at the end..... i can see what im shooting at
Mr. Brightside :V: oh yea def.[/quote]
i'd like to take up lamarr's offer though if u don't mind
Good points from both sides I must admit, but speaking of the AR2, what about the LMG variant of the AR2? Is that going to undergo the same modifications that the AR2 eventually does?
[QUOTE=Juniez;43925992]the wall[/QUOTE]
It's not an irifle any more, and the multi shot pellets are a signature of the ar2
the ar2's tristar is 3 strider autocannon impacts rotated i believe
Here, this sums up my issues with the model:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23414526/ar2-comp.jpg[/IMG]
Why does it even have to be so accurate.
Jesus christ guys Juniez's model is really good, his take on it is faithful to the original but updated, the way you are picking it to death makes it seem like you would rather have him remake an exact CLONE of the original to which there would be no point. Its way off topic and fruitless its his model pack he could damn well spray it pink if thats how he was impassioned so deal with it.
[QUOTE=Juniez;43923996]not to be defensive but
-the remake is thinner than the retail (and even moreso considering valve forgot to build the right side,, or maybe they didn't! the texture doesn't seem to suggest anything and the mesh sure as heck never suggested anything in the first place)
[t]http://i.imgur.com/rhCjsQP.png[/t]
-you can't really extract any meaningful geometry across the designs because the third person "whole gun" model differs from the first person model.... which also differs from the texture they haphazardly slapped on there without considering the mesh
[t]http://i.imgur.com/VHVhJK1.png[/t]
-there is no personality of the ar2's firing mechanism... it's just a recycled "herp derp whack the flare pellet" kind of gun (which did reload after every shell)
-the hammer looks like a firing pin... cause that's what it is
-the entire hl2 weapon set is incredibly disproportionate when compared to their references (sometimes even when compared to the third-person models of the same guns)
-we can't find the 3-prong muzzlflash :v:
valve is good at a lot of things..... consistent design is not one of them
and + it's not that bad! At least I didn't replace the flow with industrial greeble
[t]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110513051354/valve/es/images/6/67/Overwatch_Pulse_Rifle_Textured_by_SgtHK.jpg[/t]
gross. doesnt even have a single similarity with the original design pattern (besides the mistaken proportions)[/QUOTE]
I might be late; but i just want to say something
you cannot say "well it's skinnier than the default" and then immediately say "you can't really extract any meaningful geometry across the designs because the third person "whole gun" model differs from the first person model" and use it as an argument to why you think the weapon isn't too bulky and up-close.
And then you describe the OSI pulse rifle pic as having mistaken proportions, even though you literally just said that [i]the first person model is different from the third person model, making it impossible to know an absolute design[/i]
I personally think that both are good, but yours is too bulky upfront. The reason why valve designed the first person and third person models differently from eachother? It's because the third person model didn't look good in first person and first person model didn't look good in third person. So the entire reason they chose NOT to make them both the same is because it would end up being ugly (like I personally think yours is, no offense i like a lot of your work pls dont shun me)
Woah woah woah, you're telling me he took like 10 tiny small artistic liberties nobody but someone picking it clean would notice? [highlight][I]Blasphemy![/I][/highlight]
Let's stone him to death even though the only super big issue is color!!!!!!!
[QUOTE=Proj3ct_ZeRo;43926426]Jesus christ guys Juniez's model is really good, his take on it is faithful to the original but updated, the way you are picking it to death makes it seem like you would rather have him remake an exact CLONE of the original to which there would be no point. Its way off topic and fruitless its his model pack he could damn well spray it pink if thats how he was impassioned so deal with it.[/QUOTE]
mine just highlights every problem. It's okay to have one or two differences, but there are so many it just looks like a completely different gun
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;43926522]mine just highlights every problem. It's okay to have one or two differences, but there are so many it just looks like a completely different gun[/QUOTE]
It looks more like an LMG than an alien rifle.
wait juniez's ar2 isnt enhancements?
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;43926581]wait juniez's ar2 isnt enhancements?[/QUOTE]
no this is the planned hl2:e ar2
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;43895520]Still, in our mod I hope to achieve a much closer look to the original while making it look more functional. Somewhat like this:
[t]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110513051354/valve/es/images/6/67/Overwatch_Pulse_Rifle_Textured_by_SgtHK.jpg[/t]
It's thinner and sleeker ala-the original.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=endorphinsam;43926493]I might be late; but i just want to say something
[/QUOTE]
well what i meant was "it's reasonably proportionate to the original design, but even if it weren't - it wouldn't even matter because the default designs can't even agree amongst themselves"
Any updates whatsoever?
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Half-Life 2: Enhancement Mod (V5)
