[QUOTE=cloudcakes30;44128479]Will there be miscs also
and Corgi-Crates which drop, and you buy corgi-keys for 2.50 each and you unbox skins for the weapons, like Sand-Storm, DONOTWANT, and other great designs[/QUOTE]
don't forget the ultra rear postals ass skin that sells for $500 usd
and a rare chance to get akimbo 357s!
Registered on Facepunch just so I could contribute to this thread!
...
And the first post I ever make makes no contribution whatsoever.
Anyways, how complex can Source engine AI be coded?
Like fight or flight responses, self-preservation, situational awareness, etc.
This is what I believe how the Combine should act, keep in mind some of this might not be possible:
First of all, they shouldn't run at the player while shooting with reckless abandon. If they should fire while moving it should be more of a speed like when they are patrolling.
If they see their allies get mowed down in front of them from a vent/corridor, throw a grenade. Enemy in hard to reach area, throw a grenade.
Proximity based firing patterns. Player farther away, burst fire. Closer, 5-12 shots a burst. Right in their face, empty entire clip.
Temp squads like Underhell's, squad roles within a group.
Soldiers in any type of squad will fill in the role of a fallen comrade; if one soldier dies while performing a tactical action (throwing frag, flanking, manning turret, advancing), another soldier will try to perform the same thing.
Soldiers should crouch more often, and strafe while firing.
Squad formations, shotgun soldiers in front, SMG in middle, and AR2 in back.
Something pretty interesting would be if one soldier in a group sees an enemy who then disappears, they should tag the area as potentially having enemies and will pre-frag the area before storming in. (npc_bullseye frag?)
Soldiers should stack up and form a group before charging, instead of running forward alone one by one.
Faster reaction times.
And most of all, the differences between Metrocops, Soldiers, and Elites should be greater. Metrocops would act much like they do now, charging recklessly while hip-firing SMGs with full-auto. Regular soldiers should be more tactical, burst fire more often, and flank and stuff. Elites should be like Half-Life HECU, 'nade/energy ball spam, better situation awareness, pre-fragging areas.
I dunno if this is at all possible, but these things would make the game much more challenging to play.
Edit: Ah, well. Nvm, if people think this is dumb, I guess I'll stop trying to give stupid input and watch from the sidelines.
[URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1zkfmv/wearea_videogame_developer_aua/cfuhs3o?context=3[/URL]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MfCippn.png[/IMG]
If any of you have a Reddit account and dont mind, lets upvote this and see if we can get Gabe to respond!
[QUOTE=BoxBuilder999;44129216]Registered on Facepunch just so I could contribute to this thread!
...
And the first post I ever make makes no contribution whatsoever.
Anyways, how complex can Source engine AI be coded?
Like fight or flight responses, self-preservation, situational awareness, etc.
This is what I believe how the Combine should act, keep in mind some of this might not be possible:
First of all, they shouldn't run at the player while shooting with reckless abandon. If they should fire while moving it should be more of a speed like when they are patrolling.
If they see their allies get mowed down in front of them from a vent/corridor, throw a grenade. Enemy in hard to reach area, throw a grenade.
Proximity based firing patterns. Player farther away, burst fire. Closer, 5-12 shots a burst. Right in their face, empty entire clip.
Temp squads like Underhell's, squad roles within a group.
Soldiers in any type of squad will fill in the role of a fallen comrade; if one soldier dies while performing a tactical action (throwing frag, flanking, manning turret, advancing), another soldier will try to perform the same thing.
Soldiers should crouch more often, and strafe while firing.
Squad formations, shotgun soldiers in front, SMG in middle, and AR2 in back.
Something pretty interesting would be if one soldier in a group sees an enemy who then disappears, they should tag the area as potentially having enemies and will pre-frag the area before storming in. (npc_bullseye frag?)
Soldiers should stack up and form a group before charging, instead of running forward alone one by one.
Faster reaction times.
And most of all, the differences between Metrocops, Soldiers, and Elites should be greater. Metrocops would act much like they do now, charging recklessly while hip-firing SMGs with full-auto. Regular soldiers should be more tactical, burst fire more often, and flank and stuff. Elites should be like Half-Life HECU, 'nade/energy ball spam, better situation awareness, pre-fragging areas.
I dunno if this is at all possible, but these things would make the game much more challenging to play.[/QUOTE]
Most of the AI is hard coded into the engine and squad formations wouldn't be possible because there are already pre-placed NPC nodes in all of the maps. The AI can move anywhere as long as their is a node. You are basically asking us to go from [B]FREE-ROAM[/B] to [B]PRE-SCRIPTED[/B] NPC positions
To be honest, I don't know a single game that even has this sort of AI complexity. It just isn't needed, and developers never wasted their time with this sort of complexity because they know the NPC will be dead. It is a waste of computational power which could be used for better things like physics
[QUOTE=SimplePlanz69;44129860]Most of the AI is hard coded into the engine and squad formations wouldn't be possible because there are already pre-placed NPC nodes in all of the maps.
To be honest, I don't know a single game that even has this sort of AI complexity. It just isn't needed, and developers never wasted their time with this sort of complexity because they know the NPC will be dead. It is a waste of computational power which could be used for physics[/QUOTE]
Thanks for telling me about this, I had no idea. Or maybe it was mentioned earlier in this thread, I just forgot. Anyways, TBH, the Combine do have pretty good AI; it just isn't really shown at all unless you purposely try to make them do clever stuff or give them a lot of health to make up for it.
But seriously, what about the temp squad thing?
[url]http://www.moddb.com/mods/underhell/tutorials/enemy-ai-improvements-sneaky-gameplay[/url]
Also, sorry in advance. I guess I give pretty stupid ideas.
[QUOTE=MrBunneh;44128532]don't forget the ultra rear postals ass skin that sells for $500 usd[/QUOTE]
Unusual HEV Helmet Effect: Orbiting SMG Skins
Stattrak SMG: Argument
Stattrak Shotgun: DONOTWANT
Unusual Strange Stattrak Unique Factory New Corgi Carrier: Worth $5K
[QUOTE=IM BATMAN;44129793][URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1zkfmv/wearea_videogame_developer_aua/cfuhs3o?context=3[/URL]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MfCippn.png[/IMG]
If any of you have a Reddit account and dont mind, lets upvote this and see if we can get Gabe to respond![/QUOTE]
I wouldn't expect more than a "Yes." or "No." Gabe has been quite brief in his responses on the AMA thus far.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44119805]You're actually thinking of the OP, the new engine = better AI (somehow, I don't understand it, but it's in the OP).
[editline]3rd March 2014[/editline]
Actually that would be a good question to ask. How [I]does[/I] the AS engine automatically improve AI? Something to do with how it reads it?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SimplePlanz69;44129860]Most of the AI is hard coded into the engine and squad formations wouldn't be possible because there are already pre-placed NPC nodes in all of the maps. The AI can move anywhere as long as their is a node. You are basically asking us to go from [B]FREE-ROAM[/B] to [B]PRE-SCRIPTED[/B] NPC positions
To be honest, I don't know a single game that even has this sort of AI complexity. It just isn't needed, and developers never wasted their time with this sort of complexity because they know the NPC will be dead. It is a waste of computational power which could be used for better things like physics[/QUOTE]
Well, the main reason besides maybe better NPC AI base classes, would be the usage of [URL="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Navigation_Meshes"]Navigational Meshes[/URL] instead of the [URL="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Node_graph"]Nodegraph[/URL]. This is in the Alien Swarm engine whereas it is not in the 2013/2009/other SDKs. This generates much more useful information automatically. Some of which are listed on the VDC article I linked:
[QUOTE]The following steps occur during Navigation Mesh generation:
Starting at a player spawn point, walkable space is sampled by "flood-filling" outwards from that spot, searching for adjacent walkable points
Rectangular Navigation Areas are constructed from the sampled data
Hiding and Sniper spots are computed
Encounter Spots and Approach Points are computed (this can take awhile)
Initial Encounter areas are computed[/QUOTE]
More too depending on the particular set up. For example, so L4D zombies know where they can jump. Though that's combined with other ray traces done by the Director AI/Zombie during run time.
There's probably even more. But I only look into so much as I'm lazy and only look at stuff I find interest in.
Counter Strike Source has had that for awhile.
[QUOTE=Sally;44132063]Counter Strike Source has had that for awhile.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware. But can you touch the code of CSS? As far as I am aware. You can't release custom binaries for CSS. I only bother referring to the engine versions we can really mod.
The point is though, the Nav Meshes are better than Nodegraphs. They allow NPCs more flexibility and to make more logical/tactical decisions. True the CSS Bots have it, but they aren't coded to act like NPCs, they're bots. It's a bit different.
[QUOTE=IM BATMAN;44129793][URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1zkfmv/wearea_videogame_developer_aua/cfuhs3o?context=3[/URL]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MfCippn.png[/IMG]
If any of you have a Reddit account and dont mind, lets upvote this and see if we can get Gabe to respond![/QUOTE]
I asked him if he'd like to join Facepunch.
[sp]what is a facepunch[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sally;44132063]Counter Strike Source has had that for awhile.[/QUOTE]
It came from Counterstrike in the first place (I think it might have originally been a mod?)
[QUOTE=gjsdeath;44132020]Well, the main reason besides maybe better NPC AI base classes, would be the usage of [URL="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Navigation_Meshes"]Navigational Meshes[/URL] instead of the [URL="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Node_graph"]Nodegraph[/URL]. This is in the Alien Swarm engine whereas it is not in the 2013/2009/other SDKs. This generates much more useful information automatically. Some of which are listed on the VDC article I linked: [/QUOTE]
Right now all AI is using the AI Node system; I'm talking with Corgi to see if we can get the 'bot' system used for the combine.
Would that be compatible with the AI's scripting and how Hammer handles AI? The majority of the AI's special actions are scripted in Hammer; everything from manning turrets (the AI looks for them, but Hammer tells them if they can use it) to moving from Point A to Point B, to knowing where cover is..
From what I understand, switching to the bot system would involve a whole AI overhaul do their differences. I don't think its just a matter of changing them to use navmeshes, there are a lot of other things you will have to change everywhere like Mr. Someguy said.
HL2 Wars released their source code, which includes navigation mesh.
EDIT:
[url]http://www.hl2wars.com/download/hl2wars_v05_code_release.rar[/url]
[QUOTE=npc_violent;44134782]HL2 Wars released their source code, which includes navigation mesh.
EDIT:
[url]http://www.hl2wars.com/download/hl2wars_v05_code_release.rar[/url][/QUOTE]
Isn't that from like, 2010.
(As in, released on 2010...)
And HL2 is from 2004?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44134631]Would that be compatible with the AI's scripting and how Hammer handles AI? The majority of the AI's special actions are scripted in Hammer; everything from manning turrets (the AI looks for them, but Hammer tells them if they can use it) to moving from Point A to Point B, to knowing where cover is..[/QUOTE]
Yes. Special actions are the result of the AI being forced to do it, you'd simply have to add it to the bot code that inputs override everything else.
[QUOTE=RaTcHeT302;44135028]Isn't that from like, 2010.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but it can be made compatible and improved. Sanders was nice enough to document how NPC navmesh navigation works in the source code.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;44134297]Right now all AI is using the AI Node system; I'm talking with Corgi to see if we can get the 'bot' system used for the combine.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure it'd be worth it. CS:S tends to suffer a performance loss when the client has to do all the bots, too.
[QUOTE=gk99;44135403]I'm not sure it'd be worth it. CS:S tends to suffer a performance loss when the client has to do all the bots, too.[/QUOTE]
*cough* [I]new engine[/I] *cough*
[QUOTE=gk99;44135403]I'm not sure it'd be worth it. CS:S tends to suffer a performance loss when the server has to do all the bots, too.[/QUOTE]Fix'd
Also,
[QUOTE=Fat-Corgi-Guy;44135417]*cough* [I]new engine[/I] *cough*[/QUOTE]
Some people seem to think we're dealing with the 2004 version of Source. Which, in some respects is true but in most [i]utter bollocks[/i].
[QUOTE=gk99;44135403]I'm not sure it'd be worth it. CS:S tends to suffer a performance loss when the client has to do all the bots, too.[/QUOTE]
usually when anything happens in a game ever there are performance losses compared to things not happening.
point is i doubt the performance loss with bots is significant now with a newer version of source, + much more powerful computers.
[QUOTE=endorphinsam;44136612]usually when anything happens in a game ever there are performance losses compared to things not happening.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5iF78CC.png[/IMG]
(emphasis mine, the meme picture is part of the presentation: [url]http://www.humus.name/Articles/Persson_LowLevelThinking.pdf[/url])
[QUOTE=gk99;44135403]I'm not sure it'd be worth it. CS:S tends to suffer a performance loss when the client has to do all the bots, too.[/QUOTE]
For as many 'bots' as L4D has, it runs very well; there are almost never going to be that many enemies in a single HL2 scene. Also in general NPCs use more resources than (dumb) Bots.
Imagine antlions with the navigational awareness L4D's zombies had.
Technically, the Common Infected & Witch of L4D are nearly classifiable as bot characters.
Personally I'd love to see something like the CSS bots where they can go anywhere a player can go.
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Half-Life 2: Enhancement Mod (V5)
