The Super Smash Bros. Thread. HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunch (vo - Games

[QUOTE=Zannabluke;47277668]it's probably because abadango that he got in such a high placing. same reason for pac-man being a b tier, difference is that pac man really is a great character while wario is not.[/QUOTE] Pac-Man is terrible, sorry. I love that he's in but he has no kill moves and most of his fights just boil down to "Is he below me? Drop hydrant" "Can't drop hydrant? Spam Key and nothing else" "Am I off stage? Side B!!". He's a boring slog.

[QUOTE=Sift;47277930]Pac-Man is terrible, sorry. I love that he's in but he has no kill moves and most of his fights just boil down to "Is he below me? Drop hydrant" "Can't drop hydrant? Spam Key and nothing else" "Am I off stage? Side B!!". He's a boring slog.[/QUOTE] Every character can be described this way though Pacman is way more interesting due to the hydrant meta and interesting combos. [editline]7th March 2015[/editline] However Jiggly being so low baffles me

[QUOTE=Sift;47277930]Pac-Man is terrible, sorry. I love that he's in but he has no kill moves and most of his fights just boil down to "Is he below me? Drop hydrant" "Can't drop hydrant? Spam Key and nothing else" "Am I off stage? Side B!!". He's a boring slog.[/QUOTE] nah [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGlh6B4Y-FQ[/media] pac man is a very technical, creative and rewarding character overall. if you play the way you described it, with no imagination whatsoever, of course you're going to get slaughtered lol

[QUOTE=Sift;47277930]Pac-Man is terrible, sorry. I love that he's in but he has no kill moves and most of his fights just boil down to "Is he below me? Drop hydrant" "Can't drop hydrant? Spam Key and nothing else" "Am I off stage? Side B!!". He's a boring slog.[/QUOTE] "I don't know how to use a character and no one I've fought knows how to use character, character is terrible." Shut up.

any captain falcon mains (or anyone) on 3DS wanna fight I'm game for the next few hours [editline]7th March 2015[/editline] idk why I just love fighting cap, keeps me on my toes without being frustrating

Remember kiddies, tier lists, contrary to popular belief, are not constructed based on how good the character is in general. Tier lists are constructed based on how well a character combats the current meta-defining character(s). At the very least, this is how Japanese tiers are constructed, anyway. ie: if every character in A and up had a move like Rosalina's that quickly absorbed a projectile which somehow only worked against Ness' UpB, then he would plummet in the rankings. Of course I feel like A few characters might not be where they are (I feel like Robin + Marth should at least be mid C and DK + regular Link low C - greninja in low B, ect, ect.), but for the most part, the list seems decent. I'm genuinely curious what JP players think about Wario though. I don't feel like he doesn't belong up there, but I'd like to know specifically why he is all the way up in A. Also keep in mind that Japan mostly plays FD/omega and Smashville as its stages with Battlefield only occasionally making it into their stage lists.

*tier list backed up by tourney results* "WHY IS MY MAIN NOT SSS+ TIER? THIS IS WRONG!" I play Pac-Man and I have to agree he's definitely not top-tier.

Wario is good because his recovery is godlike, his bike ruins a lot of peoples strategies, and he's got good air game. His chomp can nullify almost all projectiles and stops rollspammers. He also moves very fast for a heavyweight character and the same heavyweight makes him hard to KO. I think he deserves to be somewhere around the A-C rank. Also his taunts are funny.

If you don't know exactly what you're doing as Wario you're going to get your oversized ass beat hard That said, if you DO know what you're doing, it's hard to even touch you.

[QUOTE=Cuon Alpinus;47278045]Remember kiddies, tier lists, contrary to popular belief, are not constructed based on how good the character is in general. Tier lists are constructed based on how well a character combats the current meta-defining character(s). At the very least, this is how Japanese tiers are constructed, anyway. ie: if every character in A and up had a move like Rosalina's that quickly absorbed a projectile which somehow only worked against Ness' UpB, then he would plummet in the rankings. Of course I feel like A few characters might not be where they are (I feel like Robin + Marth should at least be mid C and DK + regular Link low C - greninja in low B, ect, ect.), but for the most part, the list seems decent. I'm genuinely curious what JP players think about Wario though. I don't feel like he doesn't belong up there, but I'd like to know specifically why he is all the way up in A. Also keep in mind that Japan mostly plays FD/omega and Smashville as its stages with Battlefield only occasionally making it into their stage lists.[/QUOTE] Wario's kit gives him some tools that no other characters have. In particular, his 3 specials: bite, bike, waft. Bite offers two useful tools. It allows Wario to consume most any projectile thrown his way, healing him and charging more waft in the process. If he eats an explosive, he detonates and takes no knockback from the ensuing explosion. It also functions as a commandgrab. There are very few commandgrabs in the game, with pretty much all of them committing your character to a specific movement or with specific timing. Bite just needs to open and there you go, you can get very aggressive with it with not too much room to be punished if your positioning is fine. In matchups, this makes it so Wario has a huge advantage against projectile-heavy characters like Link and Samus. It also allows Wario to deny Diddy any stage control via the bananas. Bike. Not only can you use it as a shield against projectiles during your approach, you can also use it for shield pressure, a grab mixup, or just putting it on the stage so you can chuck it later. Bikes are heavy, as such they cannot be grabbed in the air like other light projectiles. They deal some solid damage too and can gimp characters with weak recoveries. Did I mention how ridiculous Wario's recovery is with this thing? Horrid in matchups against Villager, as all it'll take is a single pocket to render the bike unusable, it's in Villager matchups that I prefer to use the Corkscrew Leap, as it'll offset the loss in recovery potential if he manages to take the bike from me. Waft. It's the only charge attack in the game that isn't lost when you lose a stock. All it takes to reach max potential is time, and Wario has the mobility to stall for time if necessary. Eating items speeds up the charge rate. The attack is also armored, making it especially solid as a counterattack. As the waft has hitpause, this can be used in conjunction with the bike to extend the hitbox created by the attack. Hitpause is that brief moment during a hit when the game seems to stand still to exaggerate just how hard someone was hit. In most 1v1 situations this is primarily cosmetic (other than costing a little more time on the clock), the effects of it are far more noticeable when you have more people and things to hit. This works both ways though so it's best for the bike to be used on your own terms. While the waft isn't the most crucial tool in a Wario player's belt, it's a solid ace-in-the-hole to seal a stock early (especially if you're caught trailing behind in damage).

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;47278202] Waft. It's the only charge attack in the game that isn't lost when you lose a stock. [/QUOTE] Oil Panic [editline]8th March 2015[/editline] Forgot I changed my avatar to G&W :v:

[QUOTE=EditOutJ;47278223]Oil Panic [editline]8th March 2015[/editline] Forgot I changed my avatar to G&W :v:[/QUOTE] Charge as in you dictate when it's ready. Oil Panic is more of a counter attack that you store than a charge attack that you store. At least that's how I discern between them. Waft itself is a bit weird since you don't actively charge it up like you would with Samus's charge shot, but you can directly speed it up by spawning bikes and eating them, albeit at a marginal rate. Also Oil Panic, unlike charge attacks, cannot be used unless filled. It's in a weird gray area, but for the sake of keeping my terminology consistent it's just in its own category.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;47278202]Wario's kit gives him some tools that no other characters have. In particular, his 3 specials: bite, bike, waft. Bite offers two useful tools. It allows Wario to consume most any projectile thrown his way, healing him and charging more waft in the process. If he eats an explosive, he detonates and takes no knockback from the ensuing explosion. It also functions as a commandgrab. There are very few commandgrabs in the game, with pretty much all of them committing your character to a specific movement or with specific timing. Bite just needs to open and there you go, you can get very aggressive with it with not too much room to be punished if your positioning is fine. In matchups, this makes it so Wario has a huge advantage against projectile-heavy characters like Link and Samus. It also allows Wario to deny Diddy any stage control via the bananas. Bike. Not only can you use it as a shield against projectiles during your approach, you can also use it for shield pressure, a grab mixup, or just putting it on the stage so you can chuck it later. Bikes are heavy, as such they cannot be grabbed in the air like other light projectiles. They deal some solid damage too and can gimp characters with weak recoveries. Did I mention how ridiculous Wario's recovery is with this thing? Horrid in matchups against Villager, as all it'll take is a single pocket to render the bike unusable, it's in Villager matchups that I prefer to use the Corkscrew Leap, as it'll offset the loss in recovery potential if he manages to take the bike from me. Waft. It's the only charge attack in the game that isn't lost when you lose a stock. All it takes to reach max potential is time, and Wario has the mobility to stall for time if necessary. Eating items speeds up the charge rate. The attack is also armored, making it especially solid as a counterattack. As the waft has hitpause, this can be used in conjunction with the bike to extend the hitbox created by the attack. Hitpause is that brief moment during a hit when the game seems to stand still to exaggerate just how hard someone was hit. In most 1v1 situations this is primarily cosmetic (other than costing a little more time on the clock), the effects of it are far more noticeable when you have more people and things to hit. This works both ways though so it's best for the bike to be used on your own terms. While the waft isn't the most crucial tool in a Wario player's belt, it's a solid ace-in-the-hole to seal a stock early (especially if you're caught trailing behind in damage).[/QUOTE] How do you type these things so fast? Do you just have 3 paragraph responses to every characters strength and flaws? Like while I was typing my explanation on why wario was good I saw you in the thread and I knew I had to hurry up because you just seem to explain everything better than I could.

the thing about wario is that his kill options are not very good. f smash and f tilt are slow and punishable, up air isn't as good as it was in brawl, fart takes a long time to charge and you only have 1 chance every few minutes. up smash and back air are his only consistent kill options and are both easily avoided.

[QUOTE=Outro-intro;47278301]How do you type these things so fast? Do you just have 3 paragraph responses to every characters strength and flaws? Like while I was typing my explanation on why wario was good I saw you in the thread and I knew I had to hurry up because you just seem to explain everything better than I could.[/QUOTE] When you spend an ungodly amount of time on the computer, you tend to learn how to type pretty efficiently. As far as the content I type up, I'm just a fast thinker. I'm not always the best at putting my thought into text, so I did make some revisions as I went, but I think I managed to get my point across just fine.

[QUOTE=Sift;47277930] I love that he's in but he has no kill moves and most of his fights just boil down to "Is he below me? Drop hydrant" "Can't drop hydrant? Spam Key and nothing else" "Am I off stage? Side B!!". He's a boring slog.[/QUOTE] yeah if you suck [editline]7th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychopath12;47278344]When you spend an ungodly amount of time on the computer, you tend to learn how to type pretty efficiently. As far as the content I type up, I'm just a fast thinker. I'm not always the best at putting my thought into text, so I did make some revisions as I went, but I think I managed to get my point across just fine.[/QUOTE] oi when we gonna fight

[QUOTE=Shortyish;47278336]the thing about wario is that his kill options are not very good. f smash and f tilt are slow and punishable, up air isn't as good as it was in brawl, fart takes a long time to charge and you only have 1 chance every few minutes. up smash and back air are his only consistent kill options and are both easily avoided.[/QUOTE] With Wario's mobility you're going to be sitting pretty even just hammering on more damage. As you rack up more and more, some of his weaker attacks can start to become lethal hits such as his f-air and u-tilt. The most consistent killers I've had are f-throw and d-air, and that's not even considering using b-air as an edgeguard. I tend to play a bit conservatively and just let people meet me at the ledge where I have a bike waiting to land on them. A weird kill setup I have is an odd string that catches people off guard a fair amount. D-tilt, dash forward, grab, pummel until they break free, f-tilt. For characters tall enough to be released on the ground, they'll typically be right in front of Wario's fist when they react to the fact that they're now free. Doesn't work on smaller characters that get released into the air such as Jigglypuff and Kirby. It only really kills medium-weights at the 100%-ish range, as heavies need a lot more than an f-tilt to take them out. What's great is that it works at pretty much any percent range, and it doesn't always have to be for kills, it can be just to rack on damage. Wario's d-throw can be followed up if you read their reaction, and f-throw is his most-damaging one anyway. u-throw works if you're near a grounded bike and you want to chuck it at them as they come back down. b-throw is only for positioning, say you want to put them offstage or something. The whole thing happens so quickly that a lot of people have trouble reacting to it, it's great but don't use it too often. [editline]7th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=postal;47278355]oi when we gonna fight[/QUOTE] I haven't actually unlocked all of the stuff I want to on the Wii U version because it's unfortunately been in the worst room to be in; the entertainment room. Only time I really have free reign of that room is before I leave for work in the morning, when I get home it's occupied by other people, and once they leave it's too late in the night to really use it without waking anyone up so I just kinda play 3DS version a ton. Also did I mention how awesome it is to be able to play smash bros while on the toilet? I tried that with the gamepad but it got choppy because I was too far away from the console itself. I need to get some new furniture for my room so I have a place to put the game system other than the floor, I've got so much crap just on the carpet instead of on shelves. Hell, my computer desk is literally just a table, it's crowded with my entire setup so close together. I'll make a run to IKEA or someplace tomorrow, see what I can find. Maybe I can finally sort all my junk.

Wario only fucks with me with his D-Air. It always catches me off guard, even when I'm expecting it.

I feel like Mega Man will once have a peak where he reaches top tier with his unique projectile game but soon plummet down mid.

[url]https://twitter.com/LiquidHbox/status/574385702638649344[/url] [IMG]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_igv7sU0AA3Zvd.jpg:large[/IMG] "When the whole squad looking fresh"

[QUOTE=Everything;47277141]The third JP tier list is up. I didn't think I could disagree with one more than the last one, but... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/jcmnz00.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Robin in E tier? Yeah, these nips don't know what they're talking about.

If anyone wants to play a few games, I'll be in the Smashpunch chat. Preferably with custom moves enabled.

[QUOTE=zekrom3112;47278834][URL]https://twitter.com/LiquidHbox/status/574385702638649344[/URL] [IMG]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_igv7sU0AA3Zvd.jpg:large[/IMG] "When the whole squad looking fresh"[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/OaRfUwR.gif[/IMG] When it's just you lookin' fresh

I just found a tiny local smash tournament with a cash prize. 5 bucks entry. gonna go for it. next weekend

Oh and speaking of tournaments... [t]http://i.imgur.com/lxoRh4a.png[/t] [url=http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/mar/07/nintendo-organizing-nationwide-amiibo-only-super-smash-bros-wii-u-tournament-japan/][Source][/url]

I'm really scared to try and get the soundtrack CDs out of the case. The holder is really rigid and won't let the CDs pop out. Is there some kind of gimmick to this case or something?

[QUOTE=Everything;47279160]Oh and speaking of tournaments... [t]http://i.imgur.com/lxoRh4a.png[/t] [url=http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/mar/07/nintendo-organizing-nationwide-amiibo-only-super-smash-bros-wii-u-tournament-japan/][Source][/url][/QUOTE] In japan? Aw, I wanted to show people the power of my Falcon.

Like I've said before, there's a weird appeal to the idea of amiibo-only tourneys. I hope it winds up popular enough to bring to the west.

[QUOTE=Everything;47279283]Like I've said before, there's a weird appeal to the idea of amiibo-only tourneys. I hope it winds up popular enough to bring to the west.[/QUOTE] If they made Amiibos work with friends online then I'd be happy enough. What's the difficulty in that?

Amiibo tournies are all fun and games until some Amiibos become so broken all matches are a complete standstill and they learn to perfectly evade the Sudden Death bombs.