The Super Smash Bros. Thread. HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunch (vo

[Eriorguez]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9GOVvQIcAEiEB4.jpg[/img]

Aw, what a waste of a potential teaser...

[edits]

The day is yet to be over...

[Steel]

[url=http://smashboards.com/threads/vgbootcamp-regarding-project-m.390087/]Sort of late, but VGBootCamp is discontinuing Project M coverage[/url]

[Eriorguez]

Of course, it is a console mod, better keep it subtle.

[Zannabluke]

[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;47086407][url=http://smashboards.com/threads/vgbootcamp-regarding-project-m.390087/]Sort of late, but VGBootCamp is discontinuing Project M coverage[/url][/QUOTE]

lol the comments section is pathetic

[quote]Omadon Urrgh. I ****ing despise Smash 4 for this. I despise it on principle. Nintendo/Sakurai have a perfect, pristine fighting game legacy IN THE PALM OF THEIR HANDS and they choose to spit on it in favour of casuals. Hell - Technical depth didn't stop people playing Melee. Hell - Just take Smash 4. Re-release it in a while with an "Advanced Edition" option that lets you fix the dumb ledge mechanics, put wave-motion back in and generally un**** the game. I'd concede the loss of L-Cancelling as frankly it's false depth. But the movement and recovery stuff is absolutely key and their point blank refusal is naught but betrayal of the only portion of their fan base that cares.[/quote]

fucking casuals ruining MY PERFECT GAME

[Eriorguez]

Melee is far from perfect, but the extra depth compared to Brawl was what made me ditch the latter far sooner.

4 is quite neat, and has twice the characters Melee does, while at the same time being more balanced. And is now getting Mewtwo, who is one of the main reasons Melee remained in my Wii for so long. I'll cross my fingers for Wolf and Lucas as well.

[sp]Shame on Sakurai not being able to handle a playable Ridley tho, but one can wait.[/sp]

[Itachi_Crow]

as someone who ditched brawl quickly due to how slow paced it was, I like 4 a lot.

[edits]

Project M is out savior.

[Zadrave]

I'm sorry but how can anyone hate smash 4

[Eriorguez]

Very diehard Roy/Snake/Wolf/Lucas/Ice Climbers fans. Maybe some really frustrated Ridley ones as well, seeing there are addons for Project M that add him.

And people who may demand presence of some advanced techs; Smash 4 is somewhat combo-unfriendly due to higher knockback, but it is still workable and more complex than Brawl.

[Zadrave]

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;47087339]Very diehard Roy/Snake/Wolf/Lucas/Ice Climbers fans. Maybe some really frustrated Ridley ones as well, seeing there are addons for Project M that add him.

And people who may demand presence of some advanced techs; Smash 4 is somewhat combo-unfriendly due to higher knockback, but it is still workable and more complex than Brawl.[/QUOTE]

Those kinds of people really need to move on
I understand if they want their little techniques and stuff but outright hating Smash 4? wtf.

[Merro]

After playing Smash 4 it's really hard to go back to Brawl. Everything feels so damn slow, and fuck the random tripping. Much like going back from Mario Kart 8 to Wii.

If it wasn't for Snake, SSE, or PM i would have totally forgotten everything about it.

[Rellow]

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;47087384]I love how 90% of all people complained about Dark Pit yet half of those wanted Roy back.[/QUOTE]

I feel like Roy's reversed tipper mechanics makes him far less of a clone than Dark Pit, who has like, what, two or three moves with somewhat modified damage and knockback? (often for the worse too, looking at you electroshock arm and your absolute shit killing power)

[Zadrave]

We have enough fire emblem characters as is
Although Lucina replaced with Roy I'd be fine with

[Rellow]

[QUOTE=Zadrave;47087443]We have enough fire emblem characters as is
Although Lucina replaced with Roy I'd be fine with[/QUOTE]

How about we give Lucina Roy's mechanics and call it a day instead.

I don't think the big Fire Emblem fans like Roy as a character anyways.

[Eriorguez]

Copypasting from a TV Tropes Forum user, a neat analysis on Smash clones:

[quote]
Clone and Semi-clone differences, yay:

Luigi

64 (Clone of Mario)

Identical Moves: 19/23
Variant Moves: 3/23 (Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 1/23 (Dash Attack)
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, is floatier, etc.). Attacks are faster and weaker than Mario's.
Other Notes: Has sped-up clips of Mario's voice, and his model resembles Mario's.

Melee (Semi-clone of Mario)

Identical Moves: 14/27
Variant Moves: 6/27 (D-Smash, Nair, Dair, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 7/27 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, Fair, Side Special)
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, is floatier, etc.), Luigi can't wall-jump.
Other Notes: Has sped-up clips of Mario's voice, and his model resembles Mario's, like in 64.
Differences from Dr. Mario: Most of Luigi's differences from Mario also apply to Dr. Mario, but like Luigi, Dr. Mario can't wall jump.

Brawl (Semi-clone of Mario)

Identical Moves: 15/29
Variant Moves: 3/29 (Nair, Neutral Special, Up Special)
Different Moves: 11/29 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, D-Smash, Fair, Dair, Side Special, Down Special, Final Smash)
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, is floatier, etc.), Luigi can't wall-jump, but can crawl unlike Mario.
Other Notes: Luigi's model has been updated to be current. His model is now less similiar to Mario's, and he also uses his voice this time around, instead of sped-up Mario clips. He also gets more unique animations to him to set him even more apart from Mario. As in-game entrances returned, Luigi's is slightly different from Mario's.

For 3DS/Wii U (Disputed Semi-clone of Mario [seemingly borders the line between semi-clone and unique character now], Pseudo-parent to Dr. Mario)

With Mario

Identical Moves: 14/29
Variant Moves: 3/29 (Nair, Neutral Special, Up Special)
Different Moves: 12/29 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, D-Smash, Fair, Dair, D-Throw, Side Special, Down Special, Final Smash)
Shared Custom Moves: None, but one of his neutral special customs is similiar to Mario's default neutral special.
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, is floatier, etc.), Luigi can't wall-jump, but can crawl unlike Mario.
Other Notes: Luigi's jump animation is now the flutter jump he's had from Lost Levels. His animations are also tweaked a bit further, making him more dissimiliar to Mario.

With Dr. Mario

Identical Moves: 14/29
Variant Moves: 5/29 (Nair, Dair, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 10/29 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, D-Smash, Fair, D-Throw, Side Special, Final Smash)
Shared Custom Moves: Dr. Mario's down special customs are identical to Luigi's... except that they use Dr. Mario's properties.
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, is floatier, etc.), Luigi can't wall-jump, but can crawl unlike Dr. Mario.
Other Notes: Mario's changes in Brawl, coupled with Dr. Mario being ported over with the old specials, makes the two of them closer than Luigi is to Mario, having two more moves that are variants of each other, and Dr. Mario's Down Special customs being obviously based off of Luigi's. However, because Dr. Mario gained the ability to wall-jump and Luigi got the ability to crawl in Brawl, one similiarity between them does not exist anymore. Luigi's and Dr. Mario's overall changes make this pair more dissimiliar than similiar when everything's said and done.

Jigglypuff

64 (Semi-clone of Kirby)

Identical Moves: 12/23
Variant Moves: 3/23 (Fair, D-Smash, B-Throw)
Different Moves: 8/23 (Jab combo, U-Smash, Bair, Uair, F-Throw, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Other Notes: Physics are very similiar. Ledge-grabbing and item animations are also similiar.
Sequel Notes: Melee and onwards changed Jigglypuff and Kirby enough that Jigglypuff is not considered a semi-clone in any of the subsequent games, though the two still share some moves.

Dr. Mario

Melee (Clone of Mario)

Identical Moves: 21/27
Variant Moves: 6/27 (F-Smash, Nair, Fair [listed here because while the animation is the same, the move's properties are vastly different from Mario's], Neutral Special, Side Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 0/27
Other Differences: Dr. Mario's air speed is higher, Dr. Mario can't wall-jump.
Other Notes: His physics are all identical to Mario, besides air speed which is actually faster than Mario's, which is funny considering he's touted as a slower, stronger clone of him (they did get the strength part down so Dr. Mario's attacks are generally a little bit stronger than Mario, but they did not get the slow part).
Differences from Luigi: Most of Luigi's differences from Mario also apply to Dr. Mario, but like Luigi, Dr. Mario can't wall jump.

Brawl Note: Dr. Mario would not return as a playable character in Brawl. He would latter return for the newest iteration of Smash in his capacity as a clone, but due to changes made to Mario in the meantime, Dr. Mario would borrow some moves from Luigi as well.

For 3DS/Wii U (Somewhat disputed Clone of Mario [Borders the line between clone and semi-clone], Pseudo-child to Luigi)

With Mario

Identical Moves: 20/29
Variant Moves: 7/29 (F-Smash, Nair, Fair, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Final Smash)
Different Moves: 2/29 (Dair, Down Special)
Shared Custom Moves: His neutral, side, and up special customs are all based on Mario's equivalent customs. They have different names and use Dr. Mario's properties though, so most of them are variants of Mario's.
Other Differences: Physics (jumps lower, runs slower, has higher fall speed, etc.), attacks are generally more powerful than Mario's.
Other Notes: Dr. Mario now is the stronger, but slower Mario clone that he was touted as being in Melee. His idle animation is also slower, and parts of it is unique. His in-game entrance is also different from Mario's. On the other hand, Dr. Mario can now wall-jump like Mario, removing a difference. His Dr. Tornado was also altered to be more like how the old Mario Tornado is, but this is not a problem since Mario changed his input for his Mario Tornado in Brawl and got a new down special.

With Luigi

Identical Moves: 14/29
Variant Moves: 5/29 (Nair, Dair, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 10/29 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, D-Smash, Fair, D-Throw, Side Special, Final Smash)
Shared Custom Moves: Dr. Mario's down special customs are identical to Luigi's... except that they use Dr. Mario's properties.
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, is floatier, etc.), Luigi can't wall-jump, but can crawl unlike Dr. Mario.
Other Notes: Mario's changes in Brawl, coupled with Dr. Mario being ported over with the old specials, makes the two of them closer than Luigi is to Mario, having two more moves that are variants of each other, and Dr. Mario's Down Special customs being obviously based off of Luigi's. However, because Dr. Mario gained the ability to wall-jump and Luigi got the ability to crawl in Brawl, one similiarity between them does not exist anymore. Luigi's and Dr. Mario's overall changes make this pair more dissimiliar than similiar when everything's said and done.

Young Link -> Toon Link

Melee (Young Link, Clone of Link)

Identical Moves: 23/27
Variant Moves: 4/27 (F-Smash, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 0/27
Other Differences: Physics (Young Link is faster and has lower weight), Young Link's attacks are weaker, Young Link can wall-jump and Link can't.
Other Notes: Like Dr. Mario, Toon Link has no different moves, only variants.

After Melee: Young Link would never appear again, but a new character named Toon Link debuted in Brawl. While Toon Link is a different character, he basically is an evolution of Young Link.

Brawl (Toon Link, Disputed Semi-clone [some people believe he's a clone] of Link)

Identical Moves: 16/29
Variant Moves: 7/29 (F-Smash, D-Smash, Dair, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 6/29 (Up Smash, Nair, Fair, Bair, F-Throw, B-Throw)
Other Differences: Physics (faster and lighter), attacks are weaker, Toon Link can wall-jump while Link can't, Toon Link's size and proportions are vastly different from Link's.

For 3DS/Wii U (Toon Link, Semi-clone of Link)

Identical Moves: 14/29
Variant Moves: 8/29 (F-Smash, D-Smash, Uair, Dair, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 7/29 (Dash Attack, Up Smash, Nair, Fair, Bair, F-Throw, B-Throw)
Shared Custom Moves: One of Toon Link's custom neutral specials is similiar to one of Link's. There are otherwise no custom moves shared between them.
Other Differences: Physics (lighter and faster), Toon Link is weaker, Only Toon Link can wall-jump yadda yadda.
Other Notes: Changes to Link made Toon Link possess a different attack and a variant attack upon becoming a proper veteran.

Ganondorf

Melee (Clone of Cpt. Falcon)

Identical Moves: 21/27
Variant Moves: 3/27 (U-Smash, D-Smash, Nair)
Different Moves: 3/27 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, Fair)
Other Differences: Physics (Ganondorf is much slower in just about every aspect, higher weight), Ganondorf's attacks are much more powerful, Ganondorf can't wall-jump.
Other Notes: Ganondorf's U-Tilt, despite having the same animation as Cpt. Falcon's U-Tilt, is so radically different in function that it is essentially a different move altogether. The properties of his variant attacks got carried over to subsequent games. Ganondorf also channels darkness instead of fire in most of his moves, and some of his other moves channel electricity as well (on different moves than Cpt. Falcon's).

Brawl (Semi-clone of Cpt. Falcon)

Identical Moves: 15/29
Variant Moves: 5/29 (D-Smash, Nair, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 9/29 (Jab combo, F-Tilt, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, U-Smash, Fair, U-Throw, Side Special, Final Smash)
Other Differences: Physics (much slower in just about every aspect, higher weight), attacks are much more powerful, Ganondorf can't wall-jump.
Other Notes: Ganondorf now has different animations for things such as dashing. Other differences from Melee not noted above were carried over to Brawl.

For 3DS/Wii U (Semi-clone of Cpt. Falcon)

Identical Moves: 15/29
Variant Moves: 5/29 (D-Smash, Nair, Neutral Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 9/29 (Jab combo, F-Tilt, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, U-Smash, Fair, D-Throw, Side Special, Final Smash)
Shared Custom Moves: None.
Other Differences: Physics (Ganondorf is slower and heavier yadda yadda), Ganondorf is more powerful, Ganondorf can't wall-jump.
Other Notes: Ganondorf received no differences in terms of new moves. His custom moves however are quite different from the good captain's, and due to reasons he was made ridiculously strong in this incarnation of Smash.

Falco

Melee (Clone of Fox)

Identical Moves: 22/27
Variant Moves: 5/27 (Dair, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 0/27
Other Differences: Physics (Falco runs slower and jumps higher).
Other Notes: Despite having 22 identical moves, the knockback of these moves have been altered, changing what moves Falco uses to KO. Also, Falco's physics are still kinda similiar to Fox, despite being different.

Brawl (Semi-clone of Fox)

Identical Moves: 13/29
Variant Moves: 7/29 (Dair, U-Throw, D-Throw, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Final Smash)
Different Moves: 9/29 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, F-Smash, Nair, Fair, Bair, Uair, U-Throw, Down Special)
Other Differences: Physics (jumps higher, runs slower)
Other Notes: Falco now has a different dashing animation.

For 3DS/Wii U (Semi-clone of Fox)

Identical Moves: 12/29
Variant Moves: 8/29 (U-Smash, Dair, U-Throw, D-Throw, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Final Smash)
Different Moves: 9/29 (Jab combo, U-Tilt, F-Smash, Nair, Fair, Bair, Uair, U-Throw, Down Special)
Shared Custom Moves: Fox and Falco have a custom neutral special that makes the blaster more similiar to the other one's, technically meaning they have two custom moves in common. However, the rest are different.
Other Differences: Physics (Falco runs slower and jumps higher).
Other Notes: Falco received a new Bair and Uair in addition to an altered U-Smash. However, his Bair and Uair were already different moves.

Pichu

Melee (Clone of Pikachu)

Identical Moves: 20/27
Variant Moves: 6/27 (F-Smash, D-Smash, Nair, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 1/27 (U-Smash)
Other Differences: Physics (Pichu is very light), Pichu's attacks are weaker, Pichu can wall-jump while Pikachu can't, Pichu's electric attacks hurts itself.
Other Notes: Pichu would only appear in Melee. It's wall-jump ability were given to Pikachu in the next game.

Roy

Melee (Clone of Marth)

Identical Moves: 23/27
Variant Moves: 3/27 (U-Smash, Neutral Special, Up Special)
Different Moves: 1/27 (Jab)
Other Differences: Physics (Roy falls faster, Marth has lower traction, etc.), Roy's attacks deal more damage and knockback at the center of the blade.
Other Notes: Roy would only appear in Melee. He would be succeeded by other Fire Emblem characters with different movesets.

Wolf

Brawl (Unique Character [He's basically included so I can show you fuckers that Wolf is not anywhere near a semi-clone])

Identical Moves: 0/29
Variant Moves: 9/29 (Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special, Ledge Attacks, Floor Attacks, Final Smash)
Different Moves: 16+/29 (Jab combo, F-Tilt, U-Tilt, D-Tilt, Dash Attack, F-Smash, U-Smash, D-Smash, Nair, Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair, F-Throw, B-Throw, U-Throw, D-Throw)
Other Differences: Physics (Probably the one with the most different physics of the space animals)
Other Notes: Wolf's animations are very different from the other space animals.

Lucas

Brawl (Disputed Semi-clone [basically borders between unique and semi-clone] of Ness)

Identical Moves: 7/29
Variant Moves: 8/29 (D-Tilt, Nair, Dair, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special, Final Smash)
Different Moves: 12/29 (Jab combo, F-Tilt, U-Tilt, Dash Attack, U-Smash, D-Smash, Fair, Bair, F-Throw, B-Throw, U-Throw, D-Throw)
Other Differences: Lucas has a tether grab, with all the benefits.
Other Notes: Lucas's physics are very identical to Ness. In addition, both he and Ness suffer a horrible delay when they're released from grabs.

Lucina

For 3DS/Wii U (Clone of Marth)

Identical Moves: 27/29
Variant Moves (if you could call them that): 2/29 (Neutral Special, Down Special)
Different Moves: 0/29
Shared Custom Moves: All of Marth's customs. And only the Side Special customs use Marth and Lucina's points to differentiate between them. The rest are basically the exact same move for both of them, down to the name even. Other Differences: Lucina deals consistent damage, compared to Marth who has a ridiculously powerful sweetspot at the tip of his blade. Comparing them reveals that Lucina's consistent damage pales in comparison to Marth's tippers and Marth's non-tippers aren't weak enough to compensate for this when he gets hitstun benefits on top of that too.
Other Notes: The animation of Lucina's neutral and down specials are different from Marth's, which is the only reason I decided to list them as variants. They are functionally the exact same move. Other than that, she's basically a middle-ground between non-tipper Marth and tipper-Marth, and that is unfortunately painfully below average in this incarnation of Smash.

Dark Pit

For 3DS/Wii U (Clone of Pit)

Identical Moves: 26/29
Variant Moves: 2/29 (Neutral Special, Side Special)
Different Moves: 1/29 (Final Smash)
Shared Custom Moves: All of them. However, the neutral and side special customs use Dark Pit's weapon's properties.
Other Differences: His F-Tilt is weaker than Pit's, killing at significantly higher percentages. One of his taunts also allows him to briefly dodge things as if he sidestepped something. His main difference from Pit lies in his choice of weapons, and his Final Smash where he uses his strongest weapon: the Dark Pit Staff.[/quote]

Roy is nowhere near the likeliness of Lucina or Dark Pit.

And Roy is quite disliked among Fire Emblem fans IIRC. Quite unlike Marth and Ike.

[editline]6th February 2015[/editline]

Also, Lucina as a costume for Marth and Chrom as a costume for Ike would be fun (despite using the same sword, canonically using the same fighting style, and all that).

[edits]

[QUOTE=Rellow;47087475]I don't think the big Fire Emblem fans like Roy as a character anyways.[/QUOTE]

Roy is the equivalent of a toilet as a unit. He's got a bitching fire sword and that's about it.

[ProfessorAssHat]

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;47087339]Very diehard Roy/Snake/Wolf/Lucas/Ice Climbers fans. Maybe some really frustrated Ridley ones as well, seeing there are addons for Project M that add him.[/QUOTE]

I'm a [b][i]massive[/i][/b] die-hard Lucas fan, and Smash 4 is by far my favorite Smash game, so this is (partially) false.

[sp]#NotAllProjectMFans[/sp]

[Eriorguez]

Very diehard, as in irrational, sorry if I made too much of a generalization.

[Sift]

This is kind of a dumb complaint but it sucks that two series in Smash U don't have any trophies at all. Yoshi's series could of at least had the shy guys as they were more Yoshi's thing then Mario's, even if they were in Doki Doki panic first for example.

[Stormbuster]

[QUOTE=Zadrave;47087311]I'm sorry but how can anyone hate smash 4[/QUOTE]

I want to like it, but I just feel like there is something really off with the two games in general. Other than most characters having an absolutely ridiculous level of recovery (see: Villager and Luigi), many of the stages are disgustingly intrusive on the main gameplay and the music selection, despite being over 400 songs, manages to feel unpolished (4 copies of Mute City on Port Town with no Port Town songs and 8 versions of Jungle Groove (which they couldn't even bother to name properly) are the absolute biggest offenders here, especially when many of the "duplicate" songs are just ports that could have been, you know, other songs).

Also a personal opinion, but I feel like defensive options in this game are just way too good while offense options do way too little knockback and stall out the game way longer than they should (which is why comp has no choice but to run two stocks and even then, it still times out in some matches).

I also find some of the roster choices questionable (Ice Climbers axed just because they couldn't run on the 3DS version when they said the Wii U version wouldn't be held back, Dark Pit having a different slot when Alph does not despite Alph probably being the easiest of the swaps to declone, cutting Wolf and Lucas when they could have just recycled their Brawl animations (which many characters already in the game do for certain moves, virtually all returning taunts and most special-action (i.e. sleeping, swimming) animations))

Smash Wii U's single-player modes are without a doubt the most infuriatingly frustrating modes in any of the Smashes to me, and they couldn't even bother to bring back Break the Targets or a true Classic mode, and instead replaced them with gimmicks; it's like they purposely tried to break two things that didn't need fixing with those.

Not saying it's a bad game, but I feel it could have been much better and no matter how hard I try to (I actually bought a Wii U for Smash 4), I just can't get into it like I could 64 or Melee. The biggest reason by far though is the pacing of the matches, which is a shame because I feel that Smash 4 Wii U has plenty of visual polish and looks gorgeous in HD.

[Sift]

Just gonna repeat that I fully believe Alph was planned to have his own slot. It really makes no sense that everyone else with a full alt like that is the (ALT) trophy but Olimar is just Olimar in all of his and you have to randomly find Alph's or buy it in the shop. Like they didn't have time to finish him or something so rushed him to a alt costume.

Also for peoples recoveries I think they're so good because they're trying to promote off stage play and not a lot of people are trying to take advantage of it. If you can fly back to the stage from a good deal of the screen I think it's safe to assume they want you to go out and gimp/get a early kill instead of just standing on the platform and waiting for them to come to you.

[Nightfury Treann]

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;47087485]Clone copypasta[/QUOTE]

Hah! I knew Wolf was really far away from being a clone.

[Stormbuster]

[QUOTE=Sift;47087952]Also for peoples recoveries I think they're so good because they're trying to promote off stage play and not a lot of people are trying to take advantage of it. If you can fly back to the stage from a good deal of the screen I think it's safe to assume they want you to go out and gimp/get a early kill instead of just standing on the platform and waiting for them to come to you.[/QUOTE]

While I definitely don't mind off-stage play (honestly, it's one of the reasons I prefer 64 to Melee, as few Melee characters have a decent off-stage game, especially outside of the top tier), I think it's pretty absurd that certain characters can safely chase people to the bottom, horizontal or top magnifying glasses and still make it back to the stage without it even being a close call.

[Keychain]

I would like Melee a lot more solely if it had more variety in picks. The occasional "wow" picks like Marth and Jigglypuff aren't enough for me to ignore the incredibly offputting Fox and Falco for 99% of the games that are played. I love the fast-paced action. But watching the same exact movesets every game is just god damn boring.

[ClauAmericano]

[QUOTE=Keychain;47089457]I would like Melee a lot more solely if it had more variety in picks. The occasional "wow" picks like Marth and Jigglypuff aren't enough for me to ignore the incredibly offputting Fox and Falco for 99% of the games that are played. I love the fast-paced action. But watching the same exact movesets every game is just god damn boring.[/QUOTE]
that's why I was hoping aMSa would win, it's not every day you see a Yoshi melee player

[Rellow]

[QUOTE=Keychain;47089457]I would like Melee a lot more solely if it had more variety in picks. The occasional "wow" picks like Marth and Jigglypuff aren't enough for me to ignore the incredibly offputting Fox and Falco for 99% of the games that are played. I love the fast-paced action. But watching the same exact movesets every game is just god damn boring.[/QUOTE]

I almost fell asleep watching a melee tourney once because there were so many space animals.
I was amazed for like 3 whole sets before I just realized I was seeing the same things happen over and over.

[Everything]

People complaining about lack of variety in Melee picks clearly weren't watching Smash4 at Apex.

[Sift]

[QUOTE=Everything;47089786]People complaining about lack of variety in Melee picks clearly weren't watching Smash4 at Apex.[/QUOTE]
There was more at Smash 4 though.

Rosalina, Pac-man, Olimar, Diddy, Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Ness, Villager, Sonic, Sheik, Captain Falcon.

Melee

Fox, Falco, Marth, Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Yoshi, Sheik, I think there was a peach? I don't recall.

-------

Melee: Most repeats belongs to Fox (not counting Falco) in 8 matches (out of 11, 2 of which were Fox vs Fox, 5 if you count Fox vs Falco)

Smash 4: Diddy in 4 (out of 10, 1 of which was Diddy vs Diddy, not counting the Falcon Crowd pleaser)

[Everything]

To think, fewer characters chosen out of a roster of fewer characters.

8 characters for Melee is nearly 1/3 the entire selection. Meanwhile, 10-11 for Smash4 is just under a fifth of the cast.