The Super Smash Bros. Thread. HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunch (vo - Games

[QUOTE=Everything;47089878]To think, fewer characters chosen out of a roster of fewer characters.[/QUOTE] Well that's not exactly the point I was making. "I saw melee and it had too much fox in play" was the complaint, I'm just stating that almost every single match had Fox in it so it's a valid complaint. Is it a old game with a smaller rosters fault that one character that's been digested over 14 years is overused? Not really. But if someone says it's too much for them it's not like you can say "nuh-uh" Also as a aside was thinking about Airdodges. Assuming we won't ever get back the "only one" thing, how would people feel about them if they worked like Lucario's counter where if you're in midair and you push it for the first couple frames your dodging, but there's a big cooldown to it before you can do it again or act?

I'm not saying you're not correct, I'm saying in a lot of ways Smash4 had a similar if not identical level of repetition at Apex. But at least Melee was generally fun to watch. Smash4 was full of people metagaming harder than a pokemon tournament. Not ALL of them, but MOST.

[QUOTE=Everything;47089786]People complaining about lack of variety in Melee picks clearly weren't watching Smash4 at Apex.[/QUOTE] what are you talking about there was a pac-man and duck hunt dog in top 8 that's already far better than seeing fox or falco in every single match in the last melee tourney i watched

[QUOTE=Sift;47089910]Well that's not exactly the point I was making. "I saw melee and it had too much fox in play" was the complaint, I'm just stating that almost every single match had Fox in it so it's a valid complaint. Is it a old game with a smaller rosters fault that one character that's been digested over 14 years is overused? Not really. But if someone says it's too much for them it's not like you can say "nuh-uh" Also as a aside was thinking about Airdodges. Assuming we won't ever get back the "only one" thing, how would people feel about them if they worked like Lucario's counter where if you're in midair and you push it for the first couple frames your dodging, but there's a big cooldown to it before you can do it again or act?[/QUOTE] Airdodges right now are bullshit Whenever I try to juggle someone they panic mash airdodge and you get a tiny window to attack I really hope we would get back the "only one", but maybe keep it so you can attack afterwards

What annoys me more are people who spam their counter in midair because you have no way to grab them. This is why I think airgrabs need to become a thing.

[QUOTE=Everything;47089975]What annoys me more are people who spam their counter in midair because you have no way to grab them. This is why I think airgrabs need to become a thing.[/QUOTE] Counter is easily punisheable though Just bait it out and punish [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] Just jumping at them will often make them slap their desperate counter in defense, and you can then hit them with any move of your choice

I mean specifically the people that keep mashing it after you knock them into the air. Generally the effectiveness cooldown is forgiving enough where you can do it twice before you land with everyone but Lucario, and make ~40% of your airtime invulnerable. Little Mac players do this a lot, since there isn't really anything else they can do in the air. It's pretty obnoxious, especially as an aerial followup character like Fox.

[QUOTE=Everything;47090027]I mean specifically the people that keep mashing it after you knock them into the air. Generally the effectiveness cooldown is forgiving enough where you can do it twice before you land with everyone but Lucario, and make ~40% of your airtime untouchable. Little Mac players do this a lot, since there isn't really anything else they can do in the air. It's pretty obnoxious.[/QUOTE] You can also if you have a projectile or long reach attack just trigger their counter safely which usually leaves them open for punishing Like an upsmash with marth, or pits arrow

[QUOTE=Rellow;47089950]what are you talking about there was a pac-man and duck hunt dog in top 8 that's already far better than seeing fox or falco in every single match in the last melee tourney i watched[/QUOTE] There were just as many Diddy Kongs and Sheiks in the top 16 for Smash Wii U as there were Foxes and Falcos in Melee's top 16; similarly, there were just as many Diddy Kongs and Sheiks in the top 8 for Smash 4 as there were Foxes and Falcos in Melee's top 8. (7 and 4, respectively for the top 16 and top 8)

I love Lucario's that counter midair because I hit them then airdodge/fast fall and they go flying into the abyss 90% of the time. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=The Duke;47090081]There were just as many Diddy Kongs and Sheiks in the top 16 for Smash Wii U as there were Foxes and Falcos in Melee's top 16. (7)[/QUOTE] Difference is Diddy is nothing like Sheik while in Melee Falco and Fox are 1:1 clones with different attributes.

me and nightfury are playing a few games if anyone wants to join just GET IN THE SMASHPUNCH CHAT

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;47090142]me and nightfury are playing a few games if anyone wants to join just GET IN THE SMASHPUNCH CHAT[/QUOTE] SHIT I'M AN HOUR LATE FFFFFF

[QUOTE=Everything;47089786]People complaining about lack of variety in Melee picks clearly weren't watching Smash4 at Apex.[/QUOTE] Uhh the first several matches of the tournament went a long time without repetition. If you actually think Melee has more variety than Smash 4 you are insane.

[QUOTE=Sift;47090091] Difference is Diddy is nothing like Sheik while in Melee Falco and Fox are 1:1 clones with different attributes.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Falco Melee (Clone of Fox) Identical Moves: 22/27 Variant Moves: 5/27 (Dair, Neutral Special, Side Special, Up Special, Down Special) Different Moves: 0/27 Other Differences: Physics (Falco runs slower and jumps higher). Other Notes: Despite having 22 identical moves, the knockback of these moves have been altered, changing what moves Falco uses to KO. Also, Falco's physics are still kinda similiar to Fox, despite being different.[/QUOTE] The different attributes are quite noticeable, 1:1 clones are also very close in those regards (Dark Pit for example). Fox and Falco, well, they play quite similar, but have noticeable differences, you cannot quite attempt to play Falco as you play Fox. Still, yeah, gotta agree with that. Also best Counters are those pulled off when you see the opponent starting his attack. Oh yes.

The reason we are seeing so many Fox/Falco's in high level play in Melee is because of the currently evolving meta. You ever hear of the 20XX joke? Well, it's only half joking. Because as people get better and more technical as time passes the farther the best players can take characters. This is most prevalent in Falco and Fox (Fox moreso), who have a very large skill ceiling. That's not to say that soon everyone will only be playing Fox because he's the best character, after all, PPMD won Apex using Marth (first time a Marth won a major since Azen won with him in '07). So variety is still around, it's just that after 10+ years, the game is pretty much figured out.

I still wish we had Wolf instead of Falco in Smash 4.

Wolf was going to be playable in Melee, but he HAD to be a clone, and Sakurai went with slower, jumpy Falco instead of gray fox with an eyepatch. And nowadays, grandfather clause. Falco has been there since Melee, he won't be getting away. If anything, have both him and Wolf in.

I find it funny how people still actually think Wolf is a clone. He is way more different to Fox compared to Falco.

I don't think he was a clone in Brawl; all the attacks are different, and the specials are clever in the way they are attacks made to parallel Fox, rather than being variants of Fox' moves. However, if he was made playable in Melee instead of Falco, it was confirmed he would be a clone. The 6 clones were last minute additions. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] Also we need more villians in Smash. Dedede doesn't fit next to Bowser and Ganondorf for the penultimate event. Mewtwo was perfect (Mario, Zelda and Pokemon's final bosses as the final bosses is very fitting), Ridley would be fine, Dedede is just a major jerk next to Bowser and specially Ganondorf. And Wario and Bowser Jr. as minor villians is a bit too few (and Wario is stretching it a bit). Wolf would be welcome.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;47090882]Also we need more villians in Smash. Dedede doesn't fit next to Bowser and Ganondorf for the penultimate event. Mewtwo was perfect (Mario, Zelda and Pokemon's final bosses as the final bosses is very fitting), Ridley would be fine, Dedede is just a major jerk next to Bowser and specially Ganondorf. And Wario and Bowser Jr. as minor villians is a bit too few (and Wario is stretching it a bit). Wolf would be welcome.[/QUOTE] I've wanted K. Rool in Smash since Melee. Even more so than Ridley.

Even Wolf is more of an "I just take orders from whoever pays my bills" character, who frequently ends up helping somehow by the end. The only thing that separates him from Fox in terms of his alignment is the fact he has next to no ethics. He only cares if his employer betrays him.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;47090721]I still wish we had Wolf instead of Falco in Smash 4.[/QUOTE] Wolf's moveset is really fun (especially in Project M) but I don't know if I'd be willing to see Falco go.

Mario, Luigi, Wario. Fox, Falco, Wolf. The resemblance is clear. Wario was also going to be a clone in Melee (Dr.Mario ended up being that, Wario "didn't deserve that"). Still, I'd take a wolfesque Wario clad in overalls, with his own A-moveset, and 3 specials inspired by Mario's (so, a neutral involving a fireball, an up involving a rising punch, and a down involving spinning) over LOLSORANDOMGROSS WarioWare Wario. [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] I'd like to see K.Rool back in DK games, and even some K.Rool-Bowser interaction. I can also see Dixie making it to Smash before him due to relevancy and all that, but I also would enjoy having a fat croc with a crown and a twitchy eye. Because that is awesome.

Who wants to fight? Cause I want to fight. Come into the Steam chat if you want an [b]ass kicking.[/b] [sp]jk let's just have fun lol[/sp]

I've finally gotten back into Smash long enough to defeat Level 9 AIs again as Samus and Duck Hunt.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;47090882]Also we need more villians in Smash. Dedede doesn't fit next to Bowser and Ganondorf for the penultimate event. Mewtwo was perfect (Mario, Zelda and Pokemon's final bosses as the final bosses is very fitting), Ridley would be fine, Dedede is just a major jerk next to Bowser and specially Ganondorf. And Wario and Bowser Jr. as minor villians is a bit too few (and Wario is stretching it a bit). Wolf would be welcome.[/QUOTE] Probably won't happen, but a great way for them to fill the villans quota for the next game would be to declone Ganondorf, have Mewtwo from the start, keep Bowser and Bowser Jr., and add Ridley (not the Metroid Prime or Other M Ridleys that everyone uses for the too-big argument, but one based off of [url=http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131210191747/gamegrumps/images/6/67/SuperMetroidCover.jpg]Super Metroid's Artwork for proportions[/url], he wouldn't be [i]that[/i] big proportionately compared to Bowser and would only be slightly larger than Charizard, but with significantly smaller wings.) and King K Rool. Other villains, such as Captain Syrup, Dark Matter and Kamek, would be nice bonuses, but probably won't occur and aren't quite as essential. Wolf I don't consider a true villan, though I definitetly want him to return; instead, I consider him more of an anti-hero if anything, much like Meta-Knight and Wario. (DeDeDe, if anything, is an anti-villan)

[video=youtube;vL2a0k6ZYjE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL2a0k6ZYjE[/video]

I wonder if they know you can create a totally sealed box with the characters in it by making the top edge flush to the map ceiling. One of my favorite weird types of fights in Smash4 is a coin match in a complex, totally enclosed custom map, the only items being healing ones. Try it sometime, it's actually REALLY fun. [editline]t[/editline] [t]http://i.imgur.com/stXfgc6.jpg[/t] [i]This is fine.[/i]

[QUOTE=Keychain;47089457]I would like Melee a lot more solely if it had more variety in picks. The occasional "wow" picks like Marth and Jigglypuff aren't enough for me to ignore the incredibly offputting Fox and Falco for 99% of the games that are played. I love the fast-paced action. But watching the same exact movesets every game is just god damn boring.[/QUOTE] Every single time I see any Melee play at conventions or in videos posted here, it's Fox, Falco, and Marth in N64 Green Greens. I've never seen anything else. It's kinda incredibly boring to watch.

i found melee way more fun to watch once i started playing it myself. now that i actually understand how the game works and what fox's/falco's/marth's etc. are actually doing and how hard it is to play this game at the top level, i find it really impressive and engaging. i find smash4 fun to watch sometimes just because the meta is new and people haven't figured it out yet, but i think when smash4 reaches it's peak it'll be more repetitive than melee is because it has less depth and every interaction has less outcomes. people right now are amazed to see characters like pac-man and duck hunt dog do well in tourney because nobody's really played them properly before, but after a while people will figure the game out and that'll stop happening. melee is 13 years old with a fairly established meta and there's still a pretty small amount of people playing it optimally, and even they still have room to improve.