The Super Smash Bros. Thread. HEY join this idiots http://steamcommunity.com/groups/Smashpunch (vo - Games

[QUOTE=Cuon Alpinus;47186220]If you think Falcon is part of the melee trinity, then you have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE] By trinity, I mean three characters commonly seen that happen to have the same initials F.

That's actually really funny.

[QUOTE=Cuon Alpinus;47186220]If you think Falcon is part of the melee trinity, then you have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE] This in a way, Sheik was the only one that rivaled Fox or Falco that closely in terms of overall favorable matchups. I also kindof disagree about Smash 4 having "more than 5 characters worth a damn"; despite it being a new metagame where people are experimenting on new strategies, Diddy, Sheik and Rosalina are pretty blatantly better than the rest of the cast to a noticeable degree and it's showing in placements in tournaments. People might disagree and cite outliers like Pacman or Duck Hunt being up high in Apex 2015, but this happened (and still happens) often with both Melee and Brawl, despite neither being that balanced. On the bright side, Smash 4 can have balance patches. On the downside, they're mostly wasting them on characters like Little Mac and Bowser who don't need nerfing and could use buffs in the areas they ended up getting nerfed in.

[QUOTE=Nitro836;47185519]The reason I like Sm4sh is because it removes the exploits of Melee, brings back things brawl took away, and polishes on things that work. Also because there's more than 5 characters worth a damn, apparently. You can only look at so many matches without getting sick of the F trinity. Fox, Falco, Falcon. Rise in dodging is regrettable, but heavily punishable with projectile based, or spacing specialized, characters.[/QUOTE] While I agree with the fact that Melee suffers from an unbalanced roster and that Smash 4 is an improvement in that regard (although I assume that's just because most people have fuck all experience fighting most mid-tier characters), I think the exploits add additional depth and fun to the game. It's also why I love PM, because it's basically Melee, but with more characters that are viable.

[QUOTE=GLH;47186486]While I agree with the fact that Melee suffers from an unbalanced roster and that Smash 4 is an improvement in that regard (although I assume that's just because most people have fuck all experience fighting most mid-tier characters), I think the exploits add additional depth and fun to the game. It's also why I love PM, because it's basically Melee, but with more characters that are viable.[/QUOTE] This is probably the point where it becomes a matter of one's taste, really.

Unfortunately, just looking at Apex, it's not hard to imagine Smash4 winding up with only five worthwhile characters in a couple years, no matter what options are now about balance. Like Duke said, there were exceptions, but they were just that, exceptions. Had they come in second place or won altogether, that might've been a different story and really changed everyone's perspective on the meta, but... They didn't. Their goal of mindgaming with a non-oft-seen character failed when they went up against someone of equivalent skill with an outright better character, and they lost. This is something that happens every single Melee tournament, and it kinda sucks to see history repeating itself here. Everyone wants to rewrite the meta with their favorite character, but sometimes the meta just can't be rewritten. Not without some MAJOR tech being discovered. [editline]21st February 2015[/editline] I'm cautiously optimistic that changes might be made later on, if another major event goes very similarly to Apex.

[QUOTE=Nitro836;47185519]The reason I like Sm4sh is because it removes the exploits of Melee, brings back things brawl took away, and polishes on things that work. Also because there's more than 5 characters worth a damn, apparently. You can only look at so many matches without getting sick of the F trinity. Fox, Falco, Falcon. Rise in dodging is regrettable, but heavily punishable with projectile based, or spacing specialized, characters.[/QUOTE] Melee top 8 at APEX consisted of: Marth Yoshi Fox Falco Jigglypuff Peach Sheik honestly the only reason sm4sh is more diverse right now is because it's new. i think in a couple of years the meta for sm4sh will be far less diverse than melee's. even though melee has a clear top 4, there are 8 characters that are consistently getting pretty solid results and considered tournament viable, and players like Plup(Samus), AXE(Pikachu) and AmsA(Yoshi) are getting serious mileage out of A tier characters beyond those 8.

Unless something is discovered that really breaks the gameplay of Diddy, Rosalina and Sheik, those three have some of their most prominent issues addressed, or another character receives one or more changes that make it better than them, they're going to stay the prominent faces for the foreseeable future. For instance, Shulk has the potential to dominate in almost any situation with his ability to change his own characteristics on the fly, but his actual moves tend to be much too punishable to let him really take off. Were the startup and lag of some of them altered, that alone could make him leagues more viable.

I would still give it time. At the start of the 64 meta, Ness dominated pretty much everything, and now he's pretty low tier. Admittedly, the meta for 64 was not being pushed by the gigantic crowd that is doing Sm4sh's today, and Ness only got bumped down because he was punishable as fuck, so we should have seen Diddy's weaknesses get exploited by now if they existed.

[QUOTE=EditOutJ;47186748]I would still give it time. At the start of the 64 meta, Ness dominated pretty much everything, and now he's pretty low tier. Admittedly, the meta for 64 was not being pushed by the gigantic crowd that is doing Sm4sh's today, and Ness only got bumped down because he was punishable as fuck, so we should have seen Diddy's weaknesses get exploited by now if they existed.[/QUOTE] i think diddy's a little bit overrated but he's still clearly very good. people will learn the matchup and he might not be considered #1 anymore but i still think he's clearly S tier unless they do another balance patch or customs become commonplace and that completely changes the metagame.

Like I said before, customs were not only inevitable, they're good for diversity. They fill important niches and allow some characters to - for once - actually be worth using at that level.

Zelda is so so much fun. I managed to do a perfect combo of inthe air down a, up tilt, then up b for the ko. It was beautiful.

[QUOTE=Everything;47186812]Like I said before, customs were not only inevitable, they're good for diversity. They fill important niches and allow some characters to - for once - actually be worth using at that level.[/QUOTE] It's a real shame how poorly customs were handled though. Awkwardly forcing people to grind out single-player or Smash Run/Tour is a good way to make people not care about a new move. Layer on top of that the clunky implementation behind equipping the custom move in the first place, being unable to tell which characters have all of their moves at a glance without hopping through menus, on top of them just being banned in online play except with friends makes for a very underwhelming experience. To boot, this also means that Sakurai and co won't have any data to work with when it comes to making sure custom moves are balanced. Online connectivity is such a useful tool but it's underutilized in its potential for the game. People just aren't exposed to custom moves unless they seek them out explicitly. From a tournament organizer's perspective, custom moves are going to be a real nightmare because everyone will need to pre-make their customs before things can get going. Custom equipment can suck eggs though. There's extremely little that they can offer because all they'll wind up doing is creating subsets of the community that use their own house rules. There's no real equal exchanges going on with the equipment stats so it'll be literally impossible to balance. For example you could have 2 equivalent characters where the only difference is that one of them has +20 defense instead of +18 all because one of the players spent more time grinding in single player and got graced with good RNG -- it's ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;47187853] From a tournament organizer's perspective, custom moves are going to be a real nightmare because everyone will need to pre-make their customs before things can get going. [/QUOTE] There's a solution for that: [url]http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/[/url]

The most annoying part of every stage having a For Glory version is that I can't use my neat tricks on every map like in Final Destination. And in some stages, recoveries are just unfair (looking at you Lylat Cruise).

[img]http://i.imgur.com/CEbRvQn.png[/img]

[QUOTE=zekrom3112;47187886]There's a solution for that: [url]http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/[/url][/QUOTE] That's another thing, you're stuck with only 8 slots per character, when in reality you'd need to have [I]80[/I] in order to accommodate any combination your players may want. When in reality having pre-loaded custom characters only really makes sense in an equipment-using scenario due to how many different variations there can be. It'd much rather that moveset selection be treated like TF2's loadouts are handled, just customize them at character select. It'd take all of 4 seconds with no overhead prepwork instead of needing to jump through hoops just to make it so players have the [i]most likely[/i] options more easily available at match-time (but still not all that they may desire).

That guy's getting pretty famous around here. Absolutely deserves it too.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;47188210][URL="http://ahruon.tumblr.com/"]From Ahruon's blog:[/URL] [t]http://puu.sh/g7d64.png[/t] Looks like I can lay back and relax now :v: I hope you appreciate the work I did beforehand tho <2[/QUOTE] I like your Links more to be honest.

Any tips for playing Zelda? I'm trying to expand my roster beyond speedy aggressive characters.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;47188210][URL="http://ahruon.tumblr.com/"]From Ahruon's blog:[/URL] [t]http://puu.sh/g7d64.png[/t] Looks like I can lay back and relax now :v: I hope you appreciate the work I did beforehand tho <2[/QUOTE] Maybe you should PM the guy, get a collab going or something.

I just met the shittiest kind of assholes on for glory recently. Me and my friend were doing team smash when we came across the biggest dipshits we ever met. One of them was a counter spamming Shulk who taunted after every kill. He even changed his name to shit like "Feels~good" and "too~easy" Only used the monado arts twice to get that bullshit shield mode. Other then that all he did was counter. The other was a generic projectile spamming Link who rolled to the end of the stage every chance he could get and farted arrows everywhere. My friend who was Dedede kept triggering the counter spamming shulk getting both of us killed many times, and whenever I got to grab the counter spamming sonovabitch his pussy ass link friend would pull arrows out of his ass and get me out of the grab. Everytime I did get the shulk in the air he would air-dodge and counter-spam like a motherfucker. Couldn't fight for his damn life. I've heard equally awful horror stories about for glory and how annoying certain players are, but this is my first time actually encountering these people and they can kindly go fuck themselves. After that match we did for fun and we came across two pac-men who were friendly at first, but then they killed us once and pac-laddered till' the end of the match. I wasn't even mad, that was the first time someone ever did that to me, since I've pac-laddered many people before; I didn't even mind I thought it was funny as hell.

How did the online for Smash Wii U pan out? Is it stable and more impressive than Brawl's online?

[QUOTE=Linkuya;47188554]How did the online for Smash Wii U pan out? Is it stable and more impressive than Brawl's online?[/QUOTE] works perfectly fine for me [editline]awfdc[/editline] tho it is very finicky across regions. i'd recommend getting one of the Wii U's lan adapters

[QUOTE=Linkuya;47188554]How did the online for Smash Wii U pan out? Is it stable and more impressive than Brawl's online?[/QUOTE] 4-player For Fun tends to be laggy 1-on-1 For Glory is much better however. while there are still some games where i get matched up with "一匹オオカミ" and things are a quarter-second off, usually it feels as if i'm playing someone across the street

so i'm putting work into Project M, and starting to work on a bit of the more advanced tech, albeit the most basic of it that there is. i'm basically all set on L-cancelling now [I]in practice[/I], but incorporating it into my play is still something i'm having some issues with, and i'm hoping to get well acquainted with it before i head to my first meetup later this week. i'm putting some effort into learning SHFFLing but i'm having trouble getting the FF part in there. once i've got these fully learned and i'm well set with them, what would you guys recommend i go to learn next? i'm thinking about narrowing it down a bit, and focusing more on learning my main, as Snake definitely seems to be one of the more complex characters in the game. however, if there's any other more general things i should take time to learn beforehand, i'd be happy to know.

I tend to only play For Fun late at night where I can get three Japanese players which gives a nice stable playable ping. One English player will always ruin the whole thing if a player drops out and is replaced.

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;47188998]so i'm putting work into Project M, and starting to work on a bit of the more advanced tech, albeit the most basic of it that there is. i'm basically all set on L-cancelling now [I]in practice[/I], but incorporating it into my play is still something i'm having some issues with, and i'm hoping to get well acquainted with it before i head to my first meetup later this week. i'm putting some effort into learning SHFFLing but i'm having trouble getting the FF part in there. once i've got these fully learned and i'm well set with them, what would you guys recommend i go to learn next? i'm thinking about narrowing it down a bit, and focusing more on learning my main, as Snake definitely seems to be one of the more complex characters in the game. however, if there's any other more general things i should take time to learn beforehand, i'd be happy to know.[/QUOTE] get JC grabbing down (grabbing in the pre-jump frames out of a dash so that you do a standing grab instead of a dashgrab). get the wavedash timing down and then practice wavelanding on platforms on all the tournament legal stages. also practicing just DD'ing/WD'ing on the ground and just getting used to your movement options. the best stuff to practice by yourself is movement.

(I'm not sure but I believe) the tournament legal stages in project M are the ones that don't disappear when you press Y on the stage select screen

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;47189136](I'm not sure but I believe) the tournament legal stages in project M are the ones that don't disappear when you press Y on the stage select screen[/QUOTE] nah i think different regions have different stage lists. [img]http://i.gyazo.com/931f4c6272fb9c2532938917ea904a9e.png[/img] these are the tournament legal stages in sydney. bottom row is starters, top row counterpicks