Dark Souls and Demon's Souls Megathread VI. Katana Gank Squad Edition - Games

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;46954389][b]Boy howdy, you're really going out of your way to defend From lately[/b] it seems. They got nerfed, are now useless and the fanbase isn't happy, that's the beginning and the end to it. Frankly who cares what From intended when an entire build is now almost totally unviable and your fans are [i]pissed[/i]. Besides, why would you go out of your way to complete ruin a build? That's just stupid no matter how you look at it. Also if you wanted a similar balance, give the other spell classes more supportive spells, like Warmth.[/QUOTE] Or maybe you've just been getting really angry about changes you don't like without thinking about them? I'm not really going out of my way, I'm just trying to put myself in a developer's shoes. I didn't even say I liked the changes anyhow (one of my mains was a cleric with a looot of lightning spells), just that from a balance perspective it sort of makes sense. I'm sure lots of people were mad when Avelyn was nerfed, do you think it should have not been nerfed because it pissed them off? This isn't gamespot, how about instead of just getting getting angry at people with differing opinions we talk about them rationally as is intended for a forum :v:

Yeah, there is absolutely no way to excuse how absolutely buttfucked the balancing was on FROM's part, the two I understand were the Mundane and that one buff, but even then, their idea of balancing is nerfing into existence, instead of making it on the level of everything else in the game. DSII is full of random, really weird decisions like that, and a lot of them are only getting half-fixed in SotFS, like soul memory, or the covenant of champions making enemies respawn. (Why not the opposite, make CoC the easy route where they despawn), despawning enemies will never, ever possibly be justified.

[QUOTE=Zeos;46954540]Yeah, there is absolutely no way to excuse how absolutely buttfucked the balancing was on FROM's part, the two I understand were the Mundane and that one buff, but even then, their idea of balancing is nerfing into existence, instead of making it on the level of everything else in the game.[/QUOTE] I didn't say they always did a good job, not by a long shot (dem katana buffs), just that that one decision did seem like it had some grounds to it. It could have been done way better and the nerfs were definitely extreme [QUOTE]DSII is full of random, really weird decisions like that, and a lot of them are only getting half-fixed in SotFS, like soul memory,[/QUOTE] TBF the main advantage of soul memory was removing twinks and I never once encountered a twink in hundreds of hours of DS2, so I think that at least worked well. I do think they should have accommodated the set level build people better though given how popular it is with DS fans [QUOTE]or the covenant of champions making enemies respawn. (Why not the opposite, make CoC the easy route where they despawn), despawning enemies will never, ever possibly be justified.[/QUOTE] Company of Champions was supposed to be a sort of brutal experience, making it the easy route would be kinda contrary to that. I wasn't initially a fan of the eventual de-spawning enemies but once I figured out how easy it was to get ascetics I didn't mind it too much, it does make it easier to host PvP matches because if you clear a simple area out they can't just run behind enemies

So for a PvP avelyn should I do raw to maximize damage, or should I use poison since it has a chance of 3 hits? My Guts build is nearing completion.

Are you using Greatsword or Crypt Blacksword?

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46954612]So for a PvP avelyn should I do raw to maximize damage, or should I use poison since it has a chance of 3 hits? My Guts build is nearing completion.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked you cant infuse it with poison and there are no poison bolts.

[QUOTE=Elspin;46954116]Maybe they were intended to be ruined? Almost all supportive spells are miracles (some of which are reaaaaly strong) and yet they were also the best for pve, and depending on the situation possibly PvP too. From a balance perspective it does make a bit of sense, although it's definitely shit if you only wanted the offensive miracles[/QUOTE] It doesn't make any sense. No one had any problem with miracles being as powerful as they were. That was the point, offensive miracles were powerful but limited in use, where sorceries were weaker but more plentiful. Now I don't like the nerf to sorceries but it pales in comparison to the nerf miracles got. Saying "Maybe they were intended to be ruined" is stupid. In what world is it reasonable to ruin a part of the game no one had a problem with? Making miracles weaker didn't do anything to improve balance, all it did was make blunt weapons and hexes even more powerful by comparison. Before the nerf miracles were powerful ranged attacks meant to take chunks of damage away from enemies, they were slow to prepare and they had poor tracking, after the nerf they still take forever to cast but now they have all the effectiveness of throwing a handful of wet pasta at people. Meanwhile hexes are so fucking powerful you can kill most bosses in seconds with minimal stat investment, as long as you have a handful of souls to sacrifice. With spells that cast faster than miracles to boot.

The only other spell i know that comes close to the damage that Hexes can do is Soul Geyser and that's IF you can get it all to hit.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;46954749]It doesn't make any sense. No one had any problem with miracles being as powerful as they were. That was the point, offensive miracles were powerful but limited in use, where sorceries were weaker but more plentiful. Now I don't like the nerf to sorceries but it pales in comparison to the nerf miracles got.[/QUOTE] People didn't have an issue with them because things like lightning spear weren't that effective in PvP so they didn't really make anyone mad. You could kill some of the hardest bosses in the game before they basically had any time to react with them though, and I don't really think that's a good thing [QUOTE]Saying "Maybe they were intended to be ruined" is stupid. In what world is it reasonable to ruin a part of the game no one had a problem with? Making miracles weaker didn't do anything to improve balance, all it did was make blunt weapons and hexes even more powerful by comparison.[/QUOTE] Maybe it was worded badly but there's nothing stupid about what I said. Say in a game you have a wizard and a priest. The wizard's objective is to do ranged DPS, and the priest's is to cast supportive spells, but they have a few damaging ones. Now say the priest is way more effective at killing things... you don't see that as a problem? IMO if you don't see the problem with that, I'd say [i]that's[/i] the stupid thing. Hexes are out of balance too though imo because while they can't heal, or bring yourself back from the dead, they do have both supportive and offensive spells that do way too much damage. [QUOTE]Before the nerf miracles were powerful ranged attacks meant to take chunks of damage away from enemies, they were slow to prepare and they had poor tracking, after the nerf they still take forever to cast but now they have all the effectiveness of throwing a handful of wet pasta at people.[/QUOTE] Not gonna argue that they were nerfed [i]too hard[/i], my only argument was that it did seem understandable to nerf them when you take PvE into account. [QUOTE]Meanwhile hexes are so fucking powerful you can kill most bosses in seconds with minimal stat investment, as long as you have a handful of souls to sacrifice. With spells that cast faster than miracles to boot.[/QUOTE] Again, not gonna argue that hexes aren't a bit over the top right now, I never said that wasn't true

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46954612]So for a PvP avelyn should I do raw to maximize damage, or should I use poison since it has a chance of 3 hits? My Guts build is nearing completion.[/QUOTE] I'd rather use the sanctum repeater crossbow since it looks more like the one Guts uses. In addition it also has the special attack which you could substitute for Guts' cannon arm if you aren't up for using great combustion.

[QUOTE=For No Reason;46954663]Are you using Greatsword or Crypt Blacksword?[/QUOTE] Greatsword, that way I get the really wide side swing if I have the Avelyn in my hand, and I also have enough stamina to get 4 power hits when two handing it. [editline]17th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MoopsiePook;46954888]I'd rather use the sanctum repeater crossbow since it looks more like the one Guts uses. In addition it also has the special attack which you could substitute for Guts' cannon arm if you aren't up for using great combustion.[/QUOTE] I'll likely pick that up as soon as I get to the DLC. Right now I just made it to Aldia's Keep.

I may or may not start a new DS2 character in the next few days. are there any playstyles that [I]haven't[/I] been nerfed into shit?

[QUOTE=Tea Guy;46954709]Last time I checked you cant infuse it with poison and there are no poison bolts.[/QUOTE] Bummer, raw it is then.

[QUOTE=Schmaaa;46955305]I may or may not start a new DS2 character in the next few days. are there any playstyles that [I]haven't[/I] been nerfed into shit?[/QUOTE] Strength builds, quality builds, hexers, katanas and Havels. And to a lesser extent sorceries and pyromancies.

Has a price for SoFS been released yet?

[QUOTE=Schmaaa;46955305]I may or may not start a new DS2 character in the next few days. are there any playstyles that [I]haven't[/I] been nerfed into shit?[/QUOTE] i think my latest greataxe + shield melee only is a lot of fun. good moveset, the ability to parry, and some unparriable attacks gives you a lot of options. 2h ugs weapons lets you play really aggressive but you have to time your swings right. i have a crypt blacksword with dark weapon and GRS that works well. i also tried a friend of mine's troll build, dark longsword on RH and dark estoc LH, 12/12 str/dex, like, you have ~350 ar on each weapon, 2300 hp, and stunlock potential at like SL90. it's incredibly scummy but i'd be lying if i say didn't have a good time playing it :v:

Honestly the most fun i have is with two different setups. One i have either the Crypt Blacksword or Fume UGS, Dragonrider chest and Smelter everything else with the Drakekeeper Shield, so parry potential and balls out damage. The second is a lighter build with a medium/great shield and a lance. Both have pyromancy in some form and if i'm using the Crypt Blacksword i use Resonant Weapon. Otherwise i just toss shit on and go. Unfortunately though my game has been dealing with some serious stutter for some reason so PvP is impossible. [editline]17th January 2015[/editline] Oh i also had a ton of fun with a Spartan build, i'll update this with the gear later, i can't think of it all right now.

It seems that people get progressively more rude the higher your soul memory Like I don't expect you to bow and duel during invasions but if I see you coming and wave at you you could at least wave back you assholes [QUOTE=Zeos;46954540]despawning enemies will never, ever possibly be justified.[/QUOTE] What, despawning enemies make all the sense in the world from a game design perspective -It makes unlimited farming of items and souls impossible without using ascetics (thus making your game harder over time) -It makes so if you're having trouble clearing an area eventually you have a clear way straight to the boss if you run it enough times. Given it kinda makes the game easier, making it so enemies never despawn if you're in the CoC makes even more sense

So I'm currently fighting Super Ornstein and managed to glitch him through a wall. I can't reach him anymore and he isn't moving back. What should I do? Btw, I don't have any homeward bones anymore. Edit: Screenshots [url]http://i.imgur.com/iyueqqv.jpg[/url] [url]http://i.imgur.com/nlqjUtj.jpg[/url]

Well, you still have your darksign...

[QUOTE=helpiminabox;46956405]Well, you still have your darksign...[/QUOTE] So I'm forced to do the whole fight again, eh? That kinda sucks.

[QUOTE=Elspin;46954882]People didn't have an issue with them because things like lightning spear weren't that effective in PvP so they didn't really make anyone mad. You could kill some of the hardest bosses in the game before they basically had any time to react with them though, and I don't really think that's a good thing Maybe it was worded badly but there's nothing stupid about what I said. Say in a game you have a wizard and a priest. The wizard's objective is to do ranged DPS, and the priest's is to cast supportive spells, but they have a few damaging ones. Now say the priest is way more effective at killing things... you don't see that as a problem? IMO if you don't see the problem with that, I'd say [i]that's[/i] the stupid thing. Hexes are out of balance too though imo because while they can't heal, or bring yourself back from the dead, they do have both supportive and offensive spells that do way too much damage. Not gonna argue that they were nerfed [i]too hard[/i], my only argument was that it did seem understandable to nerf them when you take PvE into account. Again, not gonna argue that hexes aren't a bit over the top right now, I never said that wasn't true[/QUOTE] The entire fucking point of offensive miracles is that they're fucking heavy hitting spells. Dark Souls doesn't fucking have classes like most RPGs, there are no wizards and clerics, just people who choose to use whatever they want. Also, the miracles of Dark Souls are designed on the idea of holy paladins, you know the guys who use super powerful holy magic to kill shit. Miracles didn't need a nerf at all. "Oh noes players can kill a couple of bosses quickly." Is a retarded reason to nerf them, especially since you had to specifically outfit your self to do that. And you can still fucking do it by substituting miracles with hexes. Next you'll say it makes sense that dex weapons do less base damage, have half the scaling, and have lower durability than strength weapons.

It actually makes more sense for them to be hard hitting because they're the only offensive spells in a support focused spells whereas every other school of magic is almost entirely offensive or utility based. So when they want to make something hurt, they make it hurt as much as possible. Besides, i've always held the idea that healers, doctors and medics have the potential to deal the most damage in any game or situation because they know exactly where to hit you to hurt you most.

Have Katanas been nerfed?

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;46956526]The entire fucking point of offensive miracles is that they're fucking heavy hitting spells. Dark Souls doesn't fucking have classes like most RPGs, there are no wizards and clerics, just people who choose to use whatever they want. Also, the miracles of Dark Souls are designed on the idea of holy paladins, you know the guys who use super powerful holy magic to kill shit.[/QUOTE] Obviously dark souls doesn't have classes, the point is that if you have two options in front of you (two schools of magic) and one is both stronger vs enemies and has supportive spells as well, it's kind of an unbalanced decision? [QUOTE]Miracles didn't need a nerf at all. "Oh noes players can kill a couple of bosses quickly." Is a retarded reason to nerf them, especially since you had to specifically outfit your self to do that. And you can still fucking do it by substituting miracles with hexes.[/QUOTE] Once again I didn't say hexes aren't a problem, although it would make sense for them to do a higher than normal amount of damage given they take souls (which will both slow down your leveling and inflate your soul memory) and you need to put two stat points in to increase scaling vs 1 for others. Aside from that though I don't see how it makes any sense to go "well idk fuck pve balance", when people couldn't do a boss I literally just handed them my dragon chime and a soul vessel :v: [QUOTE]Next you'll say it makes sense that dex weapons do less base damage, have half the scaling, and have lower durability than strength weapons.[/QUOTE] Nice strawman. Seriously, is it such a big deal that I disagree about balancing? Do you really feel the need to throw strawmen and nonsense around in response because I don't agree? The whole point of threads like this on a discussion forum is being able to talk about things to do with the game, if you're just going to go tell people to fuck off when they disagree what's the point?

I hate spells and miracles that take 50 points into the relevant skill to use but they're so incredibly limited and unwieldy that I'm better off using anything else.

Oh jesus did I anger the gods or what Up untill NG+3 I got like, 5 invasions in total Just started NG+4, I am being invaded CONSTANTLY I just passed 15mil soul memory. Is this what the endgame looks like?

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;46956992]I hate spells and miracles that take 50 points into the relevant skill to use but they're so incredibly limited and unwieldy that I'm better off using anything else.[/QUOTE] I agree, the only ones that are/were worth it were Soul Geyser and Sunlight Spear. Thinks like Focus Souls look cool but are totally useless. [editline]17th January 2015[/editline] Why is Tarkus sometimes shown with a flat ended blade (broken?) instead of the Greatsword?

[QUOTE=Elspin;46956954]Obviously dark souls doesn't have classes, the point is that if you have two options in front of you (two schools of magic) and one is both stronger vs enemies and has supportive spells as well, it's kind of an unbalanced decision? Once again I didn't say hexes aren't a problem, although it would make sense for them to do a higher than normal amount of damage given they take souls (which will both slow down your leveling and inflate your soul memory) and you need to put two stat points in to increase scaling vs 1 for others. Aside from that though I don't see how it makes any sense to go "well idk fuck pve balance", when people couldn't do a boss I literally just handed them my dragon chime and a soul vessel :v: Nice strawman. Seriously, is it such a big deal that I disagree about balancing? Do you really feel the need to throw strawmen and nonsense around in response because I don't agree? The whole point of threads like this on a discussion forum is being able to talk about things to do with the game, if you're just going to go tell people to fuck off when they disagree what's the point?[/QUOTE] You're completely ignoring [i]the entire fucking point[/i] of offensive miracles, which I've already fucking explained to you, just to be contrary. Do I have to fucking break it down for you? Miracles were: Powerful Limited Had poor tracking Sorceries were: Fairly weak Plentiful Had very good tracking They filled entirely different roles. Saying "Oh but miracle users can also heal themselves" is a non-argument, it's completely unrelated. You don't nerf offensive sorceries because they have the ability to cast light and nullify fall damage. Lightning spells were never so powerful that you could trivialise the bosses with them, and the only bosses which could be killed easily with them were the ones you'd expect to be weak to lightning. There was no problem with PvE balance with miracles. I mean come on, your example is that Darklurker is weak to lightning when you give someone [i]the strongest lightning chime in the game[/i], that's fucking ridiculous, you can 3 shot him with pyromancy too, does that make pyromancy overpowered for PvE? Balance does not mean "The player shouldn't be able to kill bosses with a thing", balance is making sure a thing doesn't have strengths which out weigh their weaknesses, or vice versa. Miracles like lightning spear were balanced because, while they did high damage, they had a severely limited stock of uses. After the patch lightning does barely more damage than a soul spear and you only get 3 fucking casts with it. I'm also going to have to call bullshit on your claim that hexes require more stats to use, to use lightning spear a cleric (who has the highest starting faith of 12) requires 10 levels, to use a dark orb a sorcerer (who has 14 int and 4 faith) only needs 6 levels. The lightning spear does less damage than the dark orb and it only has 3 fucking casts compared to the 20 you get with dark orb. Even without using soul draining spells the hexes are a more effective tool, and you can get them at the exact same time you get access to miracles. Finally, my last point was trying to point out that arguing that Dark Souls 2 is in any way balanced at this point is completely wrong. If From gave a shit about PvE balance they wouldn't have made blunt weapons superior to everything else, they wouldn't have nerfed miracles and sorceries while leaving the objectively over powered hexes alone, and they wouldn't have made armours who's resistances can be so high you are practically immune to certain types of damage by end game if you bother to upgrade them. Also I didn't tell you to fuck off. Nice to see that while complaining that I'm strawmanning (which wasn't my intent) you go ahead and put words in my mouth.

Does anyone wanna help me do Artorias on Dark Souls 1 at 81-ish sl? I'm from Argentina but in order to fuck the region lock I set my region to US-Washington DC. Add me on Steam if you wanna help me out, my id is mrheadhopper.