Metal Gear Solid - Tactical Megathread Action VIII - We Are Diamond Dogs! - Games

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;47836231]Oh, fuck off. I don't need to spoiler tag that, the game's from 2008. It's common knowledge at this point that [sp]Snake lives.[/sp][/quote] i disagree. i didn't play until last january and had absolutely no idea that was even part of it, and i've been a pretty avid fan. given that it's heavily implied [sp]throughout the entire playthrough that he's going to follow through with it, it's a huge spoiler to know ahead of time that he's not. you don't need to be a dick about it either. a ton of new players are going to come in with MGS5 that haven't played before, we have another user on a previous page who's playing through MGS3 for the first time now.[/sp] A game from a decade ago is still new to them. [quote][sp]Killing him wouldn't be "powerful", it would be pointless and anti-climactic. Snake's entire character arc would have been thrown right out the window. Having him want to live out the rest of his days is a much more satisfying ending. All loose ends are tied up, and it's established that the new FOXDIE strain won't turn him into walking nuke.[/sp][/quote] [url=https://youtu.be/QL4hA0vM4a0?t=17m40s]wrong.[/url] [quote][sp]There's zero point in him dying. If you really think he should have shot himself, I suppose you also wanted the ending where Snake and Otacon are executed by the government.[/sp][/QUOTE] nah.

Big Boss tells Solid to live. You really wanna disagree with fucking Big Boss?

[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;47836543]Big Boss tells Solid to live. You really wanna disagree with fucking Big Boss?[/QUOTE] To be fair, BB isn't the best rolemodel at this point. In other news, I started up the original MSX version of Metal Gear for the first time today, and I find it pretty cool- you have the origins for things like the cardboard box, it's focus on stealth, invisible lasers (cigs seem to be useless though), and all this other stuff the series became based on. I'm really interested in seeing how things go (I just beat the first boss who was a tit to beat).

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;47836231]Oh, fuck off. I don't need to spoiler tag that, the game's from 2008. It's common knowledge at this point that Snake lives.[/QUOTE] Usually I don't bother with tags in this thread but seeing as there's someone on this very page who's still playing the series, I see it as a courtesy. [QUOTE=BrickInHead;47836455][url=https://youtu.be/QL4hA0vM4a0?t=17m40s]wrong.[/url][/QUOTE] [sp]Actually you're wrong, Big Boss isn't saying that FOXDIE is still a threat. He says the new strain would mutate years down the line like the original (which has stopped) but even then it'll only live as long as Snake. Snake has months to live, he's no longer a risk because he'll die before FOXIE mutates. Big Boss explicitly tells him it's only a threat "if you manage to live that long." Besides, Otacon and Sunny wouldn't placidly spend the rest of Snake's days with him if he was a walking bioweapon.[/sp]

[sp]Forget the new and old FOXDIE strain shit for a minute. Picture this: Solid Snake is convinced that he's carrying a virus that will go airborne and kill literally everybody on earth. To ensure that future generations will live on and not succumb to an unstoppable plague, Snake decides to take his own life in order to stop the virus and save billions of people.[/sp] [sp]Say whatever the hell you want about the retail ending, but in my opinion Snake killing himself would've made a much longer lasting impression. Not because it's simply an alternative to the ending we got in the final game, but it just seems like something a die hard philanthropist (who's saved the world from total annihilation about four times) would do.[/sp]

[QUOTE=tempunary;47836826][sp]Forget the new and old FOXDIE strain shit for a minute. Picture this: Solid Snake is convinced that he's carrying a virus that will go airborne and kill literally everybody on earth. To ensure that future generations will live on and not succumb to an unstoppable plague, Snake decides to take his own life in order to stop the virus and save billions of people.[/sp] [sp]Say whatever the hell you want about the retail ending, but in my opinion Snake killing himself would've made a much longer lasting impression. Not because it's simply an alternative to the ending we got in the final game, but it just seems like something a die hard philanthropist (who's saved the world from total annihilation about four times) would do.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]see that's the thing I don't see Snake as a philanthropist I see him as a survivalist and in the end he does whatever he does to continue surviving.[/sp]

I don't care what justification you come up with for it, [sp]a protagonist suicide ending is lazy, hack writing. it's the easiest thing in the world to just write 'then he killed himself, please get sad. isnt it tragic?'. actually giving a character an ending is infinitely better writing than a hackneyed suicide.[/sp] [sp]want to be a lazy, fraudulent writer? end your narrative with your protagonist killing himself. tie everything up with a single bullet! how convenient is that![/sp]

yeah you're right. Snake committing suicide because he thinks he's saving the world by doing so is a much worse ending than old man big boss finding him and then dyng and then he lives happily ever after the end

it's ridiculous, but it's charming. the whole game is ridiculous. do you want to play an over the top, fun, ridiculous game, and then [sp]your character kills himself? or do you want a more satisfying conclusion that keeps in line with the rest of the game, even if it's a bit silly? i'd take a silly ending over protagonist suicide any day of the week.[/sp]

idk none of us here are writers and neither ending is particularly good (just like the whole game in in general tbh)

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;47836687]Usually I don't bother with tags in this thread but seeing as there's someone on this very page who's still playing the series, I see it as a courtesy. [sp]Actually you're wrong, Big Boss isn't saying that FOXDIE is still a threat. He says the new strain would mutate years down the line like the original (which has stopped) but even then it'll only live as long as Snake. Snake has months to live, he's no longer a risk because he'll die before FOXIE mutates. Big Boss explicitly tells him it's only a threat "if you manage to live that long." Besides, Otacon and Sunny wouldn't placidly spend the rest of Snake's days with him if he was a walking bioweapon.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]technically no; the statement that the new Foxdie wouldn't turn him into a walking nuke is incorrect. as much is stated by bb. it will, if he lives that long. and in metal gear there's no precedent set of the death of clones due to aging to my knowledge, and there'd be little preventing a situation akin to Zero - being kept alive on life support. who's to say an organization wouldn't simply incapacitate snake mentally and physically, and utilize life support and nanomachines to keep him alive while the virus continued to develop? snake could unwillingly be turned into a bioweapon[/sp] [editline]30th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rusty100;47837191]I don't care what justification you come up with for it, [sp]a protagonist suicide ending is lazy, hack writing. it's the easiest thing in the world to just write 'then he killed himself, please get sad. isnt it tragic?'. actually giving a character an ending is infinitely better writing than a hackneyed suicide.[/sp] [sp]want to be a lazy, fraudulent writer? end your narrative with your protagonist killing himself. tie everything up with a single bullet! how convenient is that![/sp][/QUOTE] except it's not hack writing because it's hardly out of the blue, there are legitimate reasons set up for it throughout the story, and it's consistent with his character [editline]30th May 2015[/editline] [sp]rusty, didn't you like looper?[/sp] is that hack writing? what about [sp]in bruges?[/sp]

imo, this is what sets mgs apart from other games: characters aren't complete cliques the fact that even when it's matter of saving the world he's [sp]unable to suicide[/sp], shows that snake isn't some kind of a hollywood super dooper messiah

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47838672][sp]technically no; the statement that the new Foxdie wouldn't turn him into a walking nuke is incorrect. as much is stated by bb. it will, if he lives that long. and in metal gear there's no precedent set of the death of clones due to aging to my knowledge, and there'd be little preventing a situation akin to Zero - being kept alive on life support. who's to say an organization wouldn't simply incapacitate snake mentally and physically, and utilize life support and nanomachines to keep him alive while the virus continued to develop? snake could unwillingly be turned into a bioweapon[/sp][/QUOTE] That's clutching at straws really, [sp]Naomi tells Snake he's got six months to live at best. Zero was kept alive on life support, but he wasn't genetically manipulated to die at 42. Judging by Otacon's remarks at the start of the game the accelerated aging was a recent development, if Snake can age three decades that fast there's no way he's lasting past another six months. Only a handful of people know about FOXDIE and two of them live with him. If by some freak occurrence apocalyptic terrorists found out about his condition after missing their chance to nab him in the graveyard, they're going to have a hard time finding the secret agent who's spent the past 9 years of his life in hiding, the most recent 6 of which successfully evading capture by The Patriots.[/sp]

[QUOTE=bdd458;47833330]I'm going to quote myself on the entire snake not killing himself buisness, from right after I finished MGS4 for the first time a few months back.[/QUOTE] I agree with you completely, but to add to your fuck Drebin, fuck that stupid fucking scene with Meryl and Johnny rolling around like a couple of idiots. I hate that scene with a fucking passion

[QUOTE=PacifistHeavy;47838931]I agree with you completely, but to add to your fuck Drebin, fuck that stupid fucking scene with Meryl and Johnny rolling around like a couple of idiots. I hate that scene with a fucking passion[/QUOTE] I thought Johnny was dumb, but I honestly didn't care where Meryl's and his story arc went. Let them be happy or whatever, Snake didn't care.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;47838881]That's clutching at straws really, [sp]Naomi tells Snake he's got six months to live at best. Zero was kept alive on life support, but he wasn't genetically manipulated to die at 42. Judging by Otacon's remarks at the start of the game the accelerated aging was a recent development, if Snake can age three decades that fast there's no way he's lasting past another six months. Only a handful of people know about FOXDIE and two of them live with him. If by some freak occurrence apocalyptic terrorists found out about his condition after missing their chance to nab him in the graveyard, they're going to have a hard time finding the secret agent who's spent the past 9 years of his life in hiding, the most recent 6 of which successfully evading capture by The Patriots.[/sp][/QUOTE] of course it's grasping at straws, but so is the entirety of this ridiculous series. you telling me that you think it'd be so completely out of the question when they were literally preserving a crusty corpse in MGS4 for its genetic material? the ridiculousness of metal gear is what makes it awesome

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47839567]of course it's grasping at straws, but so is the entirety of this ridiculous series. you telling me that you think it'd be so completely out of the question when they were literally preserving a crusty corpse in MGS4 for its genetic material? the ridiculousness of metal gear is what makes it awesome[/QUOTE] True, but stating a ridiculously unlikely scenario that's too far-fetched for an already far-fetched series is a poor way of arguing that the ending should have been different.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;47839364]I thought Johnny was dumb, but I honestly didn't care where Meryl's and his story arc went. Let them be happy or whatever, Snake didn't care.[/QUOTE] Personally, I think Johnny is one of the best characters just because of how big of a goof he is. Especially the Johnny in MGS3

Johnny should've remained an easter egg character.

[QUOTE=tempunary;47840003]Johnny should've remained an easter egg character.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I have to admit that a character that's almost entirely dedicated to diarrhea and shit jokes all franchise long, besides his ancestor in MGS3, turning into a Mr. and Ms. Smith badass never quite sit well with me. They try to keep the humor but one scene has him being a grabass and the other has him [i]fail to get onto[/i] [sp]Outer Haven[/sp] and then appear a few minutes later like that never happened anyway. It's like the writer rebellion completely changed Johnny into an actual character at the end.. just because someone was sick of the Johnny jokes.

Some might say that Johnny is a shitty character.

Honestly, Johnny was probably put in 4 just so they could pair off Meryl with someone not snake- Otacon x Snake was always the OTP.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47840029]Yeah, I have to admit that a character that's almost entirely dedicated to diarrhea and shit jokes all franchise long, [B]besides his ancestor in MGS3[/B],[/QUOTE] Wrong actually. If you give him your prison food he gets food poisoning or something, and then goes to the bathroom.

[QUOTE=ZeroTimesCookie;47840247]Wrong actually. If you give him your prison food he gets food poisoning or something, and then goes to the bathroom.[/QUOTE] I know that, but considering the only other Johnny scenes were being stripped naked, taking a really nasty shit on the toilet, or bumping into Emma and then complaining about cute girls giving him diarrhea, Johnny's father at least gets a little something beyond the gags.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;47839727]True, but stating a ridiculously unlikely scenario that's too far-fetched for an already far-fetched series is a poor way of arguing that the ending should have been different.[/QUOTE] that's not the argument for the ending being different, the primary argument that i have for the ending being different is that (pre [sp]big boss's arrival[/sp]) it would've been a more selfless move to follow through. remember that he doesn't know until he shows up. the argument i just made is a counterpoint to the idea that it's not possible that he would redevelop into a threat in the future. given the world of metal gear and the context in which everything is orchestrated (and the series' tendency to say "THIS IS THE END" and then spit out another game) the situation is hardly that impossible to conceive of. [editline]30th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Magikoopa24;47840183]Honestly, Johnny was probably put in 4 just so they could pair off Meryl with someone not snake- Otacon x Snake was always the OTP.[/QUOTE] johnny x meryl felt so bizarre and forced

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vXk5sUv.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;47840226]There was probably more to it than just that. They did it for the same reason they gave Naomi cancer and paired her up suddenly with Vamp. Just part of their bid to tie up any and all loose ends by any means.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's what I meant- rather then let people go "B-but who does Snake end up with?", they would rather answer it and let it be done with.

[QUOTE=tempunary;47840574][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vXk5sUv.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] Ladies and gentlemen, the culmination of years of refining CQC. The perfection of the technique created by the legendary Boss and infamous protege, Big Boss. Soldiers from all over the world follow Big Boss so that one day, they may attain such mastery of CQC. Kaz is the only one aside from Big Boss to have truly mastered this technique. [editline]30th May 2015[/editline] It is said that on that infamous day in Alaska, [sp]the body of Kazuhira Miller was found with the pants flawlessly removed. [/sp]

Nobody gonna mention his massive erection?

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47838672][sp]technically no; the statement that the new Foxdie wouldn't turn him into a walking nuke is incorrect. as much is stated by bb. it will, if he lives that long. and in metal gear there's no precedent set of the death of clones due to aging to my knowledge, and there'd be little preventing a situation akin to Zero - being kept alive on life support. who's to say an organization wouldn't simply incapacitate snake mentally and physically, and utilize life support and nanomachines to keep him alive while the virus continued to develop? snake could unwillingly be turned into a bioweapon[/sp] [editline]30th May 2015[/editline] except it's not hack writing because it's hardly out of the blue, there are legitimate reasons set up for it throughout the story, and it's consistent with his character [editline]30th May 2015[/editline] [sp]rusty, didn't you like looper?[/sp] is that hack writing? what about [sp]in bruges?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]in bruges didnt end with protagonist suicide. it ended with supporting character suicide. collin farrel was suicidal half way through, but in the end he wanted to live. and looper was time travel let's not compare that with anything that isn't time travel.[/sp]