Metal Gear Solid - Tactical Megathread Action VIII - We Are Diamond Dogs! - Games

[QUOTE=Rusty100;47843177][sp]in bruges didnt end with protagonist suicide. it ended with supporting character suicide. collin farrel was suicidal half way through, but in the end he wanted to live. and looper was time travel let's not compare that with anything that isn't time travel.[/sp][/QUOTE] you said basically that [sp]"suicide = hack writing". maybe the machinations of the plot are different in looper, but the circumstances and motivations for doing so are effectively the same. that suicide is a form of self sacrifice to prevent the potential harming of another, just as would've happened if snake did so in mgs4. it's the same motivation, and both are hinted at heavily through their respective plots. same as tale of two cities. and then what about thelma and louise? othello? romeo and juliet? death of a salesman? wuthering heights? butch cassidy & the sundance kid? terminator 2? donnie darko? suicide as a close to a film / novel is hardly a one stop shop to a shit show just because they did it in alien 3 doesn't mean that every protagonist suicide is garbage[/sp]

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47843345]you said basically that [sp]"suicide = hack writing".[/sp][/QUOTE] Except that's no what he said at all. He said [sp]"a protagonist suicide ending is lazy, hack writing. it's the easiest thing in the world to just write 'then he killed himself, please get sad. isnt it tragic?'."[/sp] Having a side character become depressed and suicidal through the course of a story and then killing themselves at the end isn't hack writing. Having a character who fought for 3 (5 if you count the MSX games) installations to keep living and make the world better for future generations commit suicide is lazy hack writing. If you want a depressing ending the original ending where Snake and Otacon are tried as terrorists and executed makes more sense, but the team literally refused to make that ending so it was never really on the table.

honestly i'm more concerned about gorilla arms [sp]wedding[/sp] Meryl than how sad or not sad the ending was Her fucking shoulders were bigger than her head

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47843345]you said basically that [sp]"suicide = hack writing". maybe the machinations of the plot are different in looper, but the circumstances and motivations for doing so are effectively the same. that suicide is a form of self sacrifice to prevent the potential harming of another, just as would've happened if snake did so in mgs4. it's the same motivation, and both are hinted at heavily through their respective plots. same as tale of two cities. and then what about thelma and louise? othello? romeo and juliet? death of a salesman? wuthering heights? butch cassidy & the sundance kid? terminator 2? donnie darko? suicide as a close to a film / novel is hardly a one stop shop to a shit show just because they did it in alien 3 doesn't mean that every protagonist suicide is garbage[/sp][/QUOTE] i said ending someones story with their own suicide is hack writing. having another character suicide is completely different.

tbh I never really noticed any significant difference in MGS4's writing, it felt like it had the same blend of cheesiness, seriousness and strange shit like all the other games then again I'm not the kind of guy who overanalyzes this stuff, I enjoy all the games the way they are (story-wise, anyway - had to watch all but MGS1 on Youtube due to no real reason to get a PS2/4 besides MGS games)

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47843345]you said basically that [sp]"suicide = hack writing". maybe the machinations of the plot are different in looper, but the circumstances and motivations for doing so are effectively the same. that suicide is a form of self sacrifice to prevent the potential harming of another, just as would've happened if snake did so in mgs4. it's the same motivation, and both are hinted at heavily through their respective plots. same as tale of two cities. and then what about thelma and louise? othello? romeo and juliet? death of a salesman? wuthering heights? butch cassidy & the sundance kid? terminator 2? donnie darko? [/QUOTE] also, t2 isnt protag suicide. john connor is the protagonist. [sp]snake killing himself is more like john connor killing himself. also romeo and juliet is a little bit different because the whole point is that the first suicide was pointless and tragic and saying how dumb the quick decision was. wasn't to save anybody. donnie darko is again, time travel shit. i haven't seen the rest. it's still a lazy fucking way to end something.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Flubbman;47843973]tbh I never really noticed any significant difference in MGS4's writing, it felt like it had the same blend of cheesiness, seriousness and strange shit like all the other games then again I'm not the kind of guy who overanalyzes this stuff, I enjoy all the games the way they are (story-wise, anyway - had to watch all but MGS1 on Youtube due to no real reason to get a PS2/4 besides MGS games)[/QUOTE] What makes MGS4 stand out for so many people bitching about it is A.) its resolution to answer just about every lingering plot thread MGS2 and MGS3 left hanging, which meant a lot of answers out of the blue for all sorts of abnormalities like Vamp involving nanomachines, and other such issues. And B.) the sheer amount of the writing. Sappy endings, bad endings, whatever happens can happen honestly. But time spent stalking around aside, the game is basically 75% cutscene, easy, if not more. Which makes the writing and any problems involving it stand out more when it's what you really see the most of.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47843989]What makes MGS4 stand out for so many people bitching about it is A.) its resolution to answer just about every lingering plot thread MGS2 and MGS3 left hanging, which meant a lot of answers out of the blue for all sorts of abnormalities like Vamp involving nanomachines, and other such issues. And B.) the sheer amount of the writing. Sappy endings, bad endings, whatever happens can happen honestly. But time spent stalking around aside, the game is basically 75% cutscene, easy, if not more. Which makes the writing and any problems involving it stand out more when it's what you really see the most of.[/QUOTE] Especially the briefing cutscenes that occasionally reached over 20 minutes in length. And the awfully written Drebin B&B Corps expository dialogue.

We've talked about this before, but i'm actually worried about Metal Gear Solid V's cutscenes, really, since if they're following Ground Zeroes' and the trailer's examples, they probably are going to be a lot more brief. Both for the individual mission basis' sake, and for the more plot/exposition-related ones, too. It's one thing to motion-capture scenes out since MGS2, it's another when the actors are both motion and voicing, not to mention the attempts to have few to no spontaneous camera jumps as far as we've seen probably doesn't help just how [i]much[/i] there has to be acted if there's not a lot of downtime or ease of splicing together scene animations. Maybe I don't know what i'm talking about, but after even Peace Walker loved its own long-winded cutscenes, and most especially the tapes (which obviously will still be around, just need to be found more likely than not now), it just seems the cutscenes are gonna feel a bit more disjointed and.. short. And less frequent, mission starts and ends aside. Which, as much as we bitch about the amount of cutscenes in MGS4, is still alien for anything Metal Gear since the days of MGS1.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47844117]We've talked about this before, but i'm actually worried about Metal Gear Solid V's cutscenes, really, since if they're following Ground Zeroes' and the trailer's examples, they probably are going to be a lot more brief. Both for the individual mission basis' sake, and for the more plot/exposition-related ones, too. It's one thing to motion-capture scenes out since MGS2, it's another when the actors are both motion and voicing, not to mention the attempts to have few to no spontaneous camera jumps as far as we've seen probably doesn't help just how [i]much[/i] there has to be acted if there's not a lot of downtime or ease of splicing together scene animations. Maybe I don't know what i'm talking about, but after even Peace Walker loved its own long-winded cutscenes, and most especially the tapes (which obviously will still be around, just need to be found more likely than not now), it just seems the cutscenes are gonna feel a bit more disjointed and.. short. And less frequent, mission starts and ends aside. Which, as much as we bitch about the amount of cutscenes in MGS4, is still alien for anything Metal Gear since the days of MGS1.[/QUOTE] They don't feel brief at all. considering ground zeroes. Both beginning and end cutscenes are like 9 minutes long. anything more than the small cutscenes when meeting chico and paz would really break up the pace. Also, voice/facial actor aren't the same as the mocap actors, the scenes are probably mocapped no differently from they were in the past. The thing with mocap is that you can just splice them together in the computer.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;47828986]the only thing that upset me in mgs4 ending was [sp]snake not shooting himself tbh. it would've been a noble and somber end as opposed to the weird semi-happy thing that happened, and it would've brought him closer to the boss[/sp][/QUOTE] I hate those endings. Not that the one we got was perfect, but it was hella better than pulling a [sp]Chaser[/sp] on us. [editline]31st May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Svinnik;47833039]I know that in MGS3 [sp]the Boss dies[/sp]. Is this a large enough spoiler to make the entire game not worth playing? my ‘friend’ told me the ending today when i mentioned how excited i was to play it[/QUOTE] Nah, she's pretty much marked for death and your hands will be the daggers for it almost from the very beggining of the game. This thread reads like that website with the crazy expriment subject things. What was it called again?

I dont get why some people have a desperation to watch their hero blow his brains out also it's been very clear it's always part of Solid's arc that he wants to live no matter what. ladyfriends been playing MGS1 for the first time and we're at the part where Meryl gets shot by Wolf, last thing she tells him before theroetically dying is "keep living snake and don't give up on people" obviously that's not relevant to 4 but he clearly takes that to heart its been years since I played 4 but isn't a lot of it supposed to be he defrosts (again) and now that he's finally got nothing to fight for he can just sit and live? [sp]and again fucking big boss tells him to live fucking big boss[/sp]

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47840029]Yeah, I have to admit that a character that's almost entirely dedicated to diarrhea and shit jokes all franchise long, besides his ancestor in MGS3, turning into a Mr. and Ms. Smith badass never quite sit well with me. They try to keep the humor but one scene has him being a grabass and the other has him [i]fail to get onto[/i] [sp]Outer Haven[/sp] and then appear a few minutes later like that never happened anyway. It's like the writer rebellion completely changed Johnny into an actual character at the end.. just because someone was sick of the Johnny jokes.[/QUOTE] I actually really like what they were going for with Johnny in 4, they just didn't really pull it off very well. I absolutely love minor joke characters slowly turning into badasses over time. That's totally awesome. They just didn't really manage to make an arc out of it at all. He literally completely fucked up five minutes before he's suddenly mr. badass. I love the scene with him and Meryl fighting together, but the leadup was not great.

[QUOTE=elowin;47845076]I actually really like what they were going for with Johnny in 4, they just didn't really pull it off very well. I absolutely love minor joke characters slowly turning into badasses over time. That's totally awesome. They just didn't really manage to make an arc out of it at all. He literally completely fucked up five minutes before he's suddenly mr. badass. I love the scene with him and Meryl fighting together, but the leadup was not great.[/QUOTE] Because it was the usual "super special awesome" kind of scene where they make up for the bad shit in like 2 mins, where they are suddenly shooting the shit out of everyone like fucking DMC and completely in sync. It's kind of a cliché imo, and horribly corny. They could have made up more of a badass by actually making him badass, not just a character that slaughters everyone with ease and then asks if he got them.

[QUOTE=elowin;47845076]I actually really like what they were going for with Johnny in 4, they just didn't really pull it off very well. I absolutely love minor joke characters slowly turning into badasses over time. That's totally awesome. They just didn't really manage to make an arc out of it at all. He literally completely fucked up five minutes before he's suddenly mr. badass. I love the scene with him and Meryl fighting together, but the leadup was not great.[/QUOTE] The way it's handled makes it seem entirely like the mook mask. With it, Johnny's full of shit and can barely even do his job competently. He takes it off and he's still incompetent but suddenly he might as well be a different character with the same name and voice actor. It's too sudden since he only did like one thing right beforehand and that was hacking some sensors off, which never comes up as an ability of his ever again.

[QUOTE=kweh;47844805]This thread reads like that website with the crazy expriment subject things. What was it called again?[/QUOTE] The SCP-Wiki, yeah. That's what happens when spoilers abound in a game series about the story. Just wait until V actually comes out. [sp]In my opinion, I'm glad we got the ending we did and I feel the suicide one wouldn't make much sense. I'm at least glad the ones who are for the suicide ending don't prefer it because "The game sucked so bad he'd be ending it the way I felt after playing through the whole damn thing", a phrase someone else I know has said.[/sp]

Sin City is probably the only reasonable main character suicide, given everything that happens to him throughout. It's not like a "oh well need to find a random way to end it with a bang". Anything, with enough consideration and justification can be made into a good story/ending. Blue Ruin is a revenge movie and revenge as a concept is so basic and boring yet that movie just went beyond all expectation and pushed the concept properly.

How do I make the PS4 controller work on the PC version of Ground Zeroes

[QUOTE=Matrix374;47845961]How do I make the PS4 controller work on the PC version of Ground Zeroes[/QUOTE] [url]https://inputmapper.com/[/url]

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;47843780]Having a side character become depressed and suicidal through the course of a story and then killing themselves at the end isn't hack writing. Having a character who fought for 3 (5 if you count the MSX games) installations to keep living and make the world better for future generations commit suicide is lazy hack writing.[/QUOTE] Except Snake actually has a good reason to kill himself and it's not just pulled out of thin air at the last second. It's not like Snake can do any more to make the world a better place, considering he opts to just sit in the Nomad for the rest of his life. [sp]Naomi's suicide is last second bullshit,[/sp] but Snake actually had some buildup and you could kind of see it coming.

Whoa i never realized the identity of Deep Throat from Watergate wasn't revealed until 2005, which means when they used that codename in MGS it was more of a "you may never know my real name" sorta thing. Cool.

[QUOTE=bdd458;47846849]Whoa i never realized the identity of Deep Throat from Watergate wasn't revealed until 2005, which means when they used that codename in MGS it was more of a "you may never know my real name" sorta thing. Cool.[/QUOTE] MGS1 also takes place in 2005. Funny how things turn out.

[QUOTE=spekter;47845773]Sin City is probably the only reasonable main character suicide, given everything that happens to him throughout. It's not like a "oh well need to find a random way to end it with a bang". Anything, with enough consideration and justification can be made into a good story/ending. Blue Ruin is a revenge movie and revenge as a concept is so basic and boring yet that movie just went beyond all expectation and pushed the concept properly.[/QUOTE] Like it was said before, having the main character commit suicide for no reason other than it being "and then he killed himself" is lazy writing, but it doesn't mean that every MC suicide is bad If it makes sense in universe and the story led up to it, sure go ahead, because it is believable But [sp]Snake suddenly blowing his brains out would have been a shitty ending because it goes against who the character is, it's not really believable that this one man who fought so hard to stay alive, even in his extremely early old age, would just shoot himself in the face, SPECIALLY after his mentor/father told him (on his own deathbed) to keep living.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Fosax;47846921]Like it was said before, having the main character commit suicide for no reason other than it being "and then he killed himself" is lazy writing, but it doesn't mean that every MC suicide is bad If it makes sense in universe and the story led up to it, sure go ahead, because it is believable But [sp]Snake suddenly blowing his brains out would have been a shitty ending because it goes against who the character is, it's not really believable that this one man who fought so hard to stay alive, even in his extremely early old age, would just shoot himself in the face, SPECIALLY after his mentor/father told him (on his own deathbed) to keep living.[/sp][/QUOTE] No one said that he should've killed himself after [sp]Big Boss told him to keep living.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;47845669]The SCP-Wiki, yeah. That's what happens when spoilers abound in a game series about the story. Just wait until V actually comes out. [sp]In my opinion, I'm glad we got the ending we did and I feel the suicide one wouldn't make much sense. I'm at least glad the ones who are for the suicide ending don't prefer it because "The game sucked so bad he'd be ending it the way I felt after playing through the whole damn thing", a phrase someone else I know has said.[/sp][/QUOTE] Goddamn I've been trying to remember it for a full 10 mins until I gave up due to not remembering a single letter of it. Thank you.

[QUOTE=Fosax;47846921]Like it was said before, having the main character commit suicide for no reason other than it being "and then he killed himself" is lazy writing, but it doesn't mean that every MC suicide is bad If it makes sense in universe and the story led up to it, sure go ahead, because it is believable But [sp]Snake suddenly blowing his brains out would have been a shitty ending because it goes against who the character is, it's not really believable that this one man who fought so hard to stay alive, even in his extremely early old age, would just shoot himself in the face, SPECIALLY after his mentor/father told him (on his own deathbed) to keep living.[/sp][/QUOTE] the argument is that the whole [sp]Big Boss epilogue[/sp] thing shouldn't have happened, not that he should've killed himself anyway after it.

I hope TPP has plenty of cool indoor areas. A big open desert or jungle seems like it would get dull after a while.

My haul for today. These now sit next to Twin Snakes, Legacy Collection, and the MGS3 game guide. [t]http://i.imgur.com/TFnQGk2.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;47847318]I hope TPP has plenty of cool indoor areas. A big open desert or jungle seems like it would get dull after a while.[/QUOTE] Hopefully the impressions on June 9th will clear up if Mother Base / Forward Bases are external only or have some internals too.

ya'll muthafuckas just didn't wanna shed mantears